let us skip 1st power of secondary pool


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Please let players skip the first power of the secondary pool, and pick a different power instead if they choose to.

I don't like having to waste a power slot with several of my blasters on a single-target immobilize. Same for my defenders, whose attacks are already weak, being forced to take the weakest attack power in their secondary pool. Or scrappers having to take a defense power they don't want, or tanks getting a weak attack they don't want. These are just examples off the top of my head from toons I've played recently, but I see this as a problem for many of my characters.

Being forced to take the 1st power in the secondary pool just seems like some dusty old vestigial remnant from the earliest days of this game under Cryptic, and with a lot of improvements already having been made to character customization, I'm just hoping that this power slot will be freed up one of these days.


 

Posted

If it lets you take the second power in the secondary instead? Sure, go for it, I'd love to skip the useless Entangling Arrow for the infinitely more useful (proportionally speaking anyway) Flash Arrow on my Grav/TA Controller.

If it lets you in anyway skip your secondary completely? Heck. No!


 

Posted

thats not what he is talking about. he is talking about getting a choice like you do in your primary. now with that said, i would love to see him keep his scraps and blasters alive through the lower levels without that forced pick..


 

Posted

There's a few first-picks for Scrappers where a second would be more beneficial. For example, if I remember, Invuln's first power is a passive instead of a toggle. I'd rather have the toggle first.

As for Blasters... well, if the Blaster doesn't die then something's wrong.


 

Posted

Hm. A Stalker without Hide...


The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.

Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?

A: You crash into another one.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix View Post
There's a few first-picks for Scrappers where a second would be more beneficial. For example, if I remember, Invuln's first power is a passive instead of a toggle. I'd rather have the toggle first.

As for Blasters... well, if the Blaster doesn't die then something's wrong.
the blaster shouldn't die. if it did it would be a very unused AT IMO. and i would honestly rather have that passive shield then a toggle for the first couple lv's so i didn't burn so much end.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by paytoplay_hero View Post
Please let players skip the first power of the secondary pool, and pick a different power instead if they choose to.

I don't like having to waste a power slot with several of my blasters on a single-target immobilize.
Waste? A power that keeps stuff from running out of range (or melee running right up to you,) several of which bring fliers down... a waste?

Not to mention - skipping that first power in the secondary opens up the door to completely gutting Stalkers. "I want defense, not invisiblility" - ok, great, but now you can forget about opening with a huge crit and AOE fear, and get to see just how squishy you are...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix View Post
If it lets you take the second power in the secondary instead? Sure, go for it, I'd love to skip the useless Entangling Arrow for the infinitely more useful (proportionally speaking anyway) Flash Arrow on my Grav/TA Controller.
Containment. There with Entangling (as well as stacking,) not there with Flash. You don't want more ways to set up containment (and more damage) right off the bat?


 

Posted

I always like options. While it would be rather stupid to skip something like hide, there have been a few occassional builds where it would have been easier to be able to skip the first attack - especially with tanker's melee attacks.


 

Posted

The first power taking enforcement is there for a reason.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms View Post
Hm. A Stalker without Hide...
Hey, if Masterminds can nerf themselves by refusing to take pets, then why not?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnGeist View Post
And this reason is... what?
I'll take balance for $100 please.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnGeist View Post
And this reason is... what?
As LISAR said the reason is balance, secondaries are supposed to get access to powers later than primaries after all.


 

Posted

Also, I can't come up with a single T1 secondary power that I would consider a bad power pick. I know some might disagree with things like Punch or Gale, but I honestly can't think of a single T1 secondary I don't find useful.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
The first power taking enforcement is there for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Also, I can't come up with a single T1 secondary power that I would consider a bad power pick. I know some might disagree with things like Punch or Gale, but I honestly can't think of a single T1 secondary I don't find useful.
It's all about Gale.

Freakin' Gale.


Anyway, so, your first T1 secondary keeps you more alive than taking T1 and T2 of your primary, eh? <rolls eyes>

Does it keep you more alive when you're level 30 and respec and still have to take it?


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Does it keep you more alive when you're level 30 and respec and still have to take it?
My level 50 Illusion/Storm Controller still uses Gale.
My level 50 Radiation/Dark Defender still uses Dark Blast.
My level 50 Thugs/Dark Mastermind still uses Twilight Grasp.
My level 50 Ice/Stone Tanker still uses Stone Fist.

I don't have a single high-level character which doesn't continue to use both of their level 1 powers. And as I said, there isn't a single T1 secondary power which I wouldn't find useful (though there are many that I don't use simply for the reason that I don't have that many characters).


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

My level 46 plant/rad troller would love to get rid of Radiant Aura. As it stands now, it's only used as a "stat stick" (to borrow a WoW term) - she has two slots in it for a +recovery set bonus. I almost never use it, mostly because I'm too busy using other stuff and also because it's such a pitiful heal to start with on a Controller it's hardly worth slotting anyway; I'm much more likely to turn the tide of battle with Spirit Rree's fairly considerable +regen.


Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
It's all about Gale.

Freakin' Gale.


Anyway, so, your first T1 secondary keeps you more alive than taking T1 and T2 of your primary, eh? <rolls eyes>

Does it keep you more alive when you're level 30 and respec and still have to take it?
Let's look at it this way.



If Power Thrust is a good power (and I think people generally consider it a pretty decent power), then Gale is amazing because it's ranged, cone Power Thrust.

With a very few exceptions (RPD and Jab come to mind) the first secondary powers are quite good and important.


Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.

 

Posted

Whether the power's good or not isn't really the issue. Some people might just not want it. I play a Cold/Cold Controller and I'd have happily held off on Infrigidate or perhaps even skipped it entirely if given the option. And for Tankers, Defenders, Blasters, and Dominators, a lot of attack/assault/manipulation sets have rather weak first powers that just don't stay in your chain at high levels. The simple issue is, we've got one power we're absolutely required to take, and it's just randomly annoying. Are we calling this a major balance issue between sets? If so, then sets with a weaker first attack should be significantly better on Brutes/Scrappers/Blasters than on Tanks/Defenders who are forced to take the same power first. Instead, it's more of an annoyance than anything else. That Jab or Beheader you didn't want to take (neither are used in ideal attack chains for their sets) doesn't really do much to make you worse at attacking, it just makes you sacrifice something you didn't want to sacrifice. And it's not even balanced well because the elec guy was totally planning to use Charged Brawl because it's awesome.

So are we saying here that Super Strength and Battleaxe need to be weakened on tanks because they're too good? Or are we saying that they're accidentally weakened by the system? If it's the former, well, that's fine, but I never thought Battleaxe was that overpowered, and didn't think SS was until Shield came out, long long after the system was implemented. If it's the latter, why not fix that part of the system to give a bit more strength to secondaries that are accidentally gimped by this characteristic?


This post sponsored by a Super Strength Tanker


NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Spirit Rree's fairly considerable +regen.
I wish it was considerable...

I mean, sure, Spirit Tree/Triage Beacon is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Hell, it's better regen than most individual characters can give themselves outside of Rest. But it's not really that great for an immobile regen buff. I'd even be satisfied if they increased it by 100% (from 150% to 250%), then at least it would be about equal to Regen Aura's unehnaced buff after you slotted it.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

no, what we're saying is that a relative few, outlying powers including Jab, and a couple others need to be buffed a little, and a couple ought to be switched in order, RPD > Temp Invuln for example. there are cases where the power isn't that good, but the general idea is a sensible balance mechanism.


Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
I wish it was considerable...

I mean, sure, Spirit Tree/Triage Beacon is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Hell, it's better regen than most individual characters can give themselves outside of Rest. But it's not really that great for an immobile regen buff. I'd even be satisfied if they increased it by 100% (from 150% to 250%), then at least it would be about equal to Regen Aura's unehnaced buff after you slotted it.
it's up a lot more than regen aura and effects a wider area...it's weaker by design


Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms View Post
Hm. A Stalker without Hide...

lolz


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavicle View Post
it's up a lot more than regen aura and effects a wider area...it's weaker by design
~90% uptime with ~300% regen, vs. ~36% uptime with ~1000% regen.

RA has 40% the uptime of ST/TB
ST/TB has 30% the effect of RA. And it can't move.

Oh, and the corverage area difference is 15ft radius. That's... abit more than two full steps in-game in a single direction. And the effect requires Line-Of-Sight the entire time, so it's blocked by walls. And pillars...


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavicle View Post
Let's look at it this way.



If Power Thrust is a good power (and I think people generally consider it a pretty decent power), then Gale is amazing because it's ranged, cone Power Thrust.

With a very few exceptions (RPD and Jab come to mind) the first secondary powers are quite good and important.
Have you seen the other powers that come after Gale? Having more KB that does no appreciable damage is not a glaring hole in that set that needs to be filled by Gale.

Low level Controllers do so little damage and get no Containment bonus damage from knocked down foes, that skipping Gale to pick up an extra attack is huge for survivability.

Besides, Nemesis Staff is better: KB + high damage.


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides