i just wanna say that all you mf carebears are lucky this isn't i12; if you'd have said that you'd only play for a specific team and signed up for a second draft like this, you'd have gotten picked and benched/told to leave vent/log off/etc for being a tard.
Quote:
Perhaps. I never mentioned anything about the original draft. I only spoke of the last, most recent draft. Your intentions and what actually occurred are the complete opposite. Excluding the vast majority of late sign-ups and allowing only a select few is not going to help PvP. If you're going to make exceptions for the late sign-ups, then it should apply for everyone, not just to specific people. If sign-ups were closed, then they should stay closed. It does suck for those short staffed teams, but don't you have rules saying 6v6 and only larger if there are enough? If 2 or even 3 of the 6 teams are short, 6v6 rule should apply (1/3 to half the league being short is a considerable amount of teams).|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
That is exactly what this event was. I don't know how you keep missing the point that the original draft, everyone had to be added. The late signups were very well aware that they were late and that they may or may not get to be chosen to participate. Perhaps you should go check that thread out.
Not one time has anyone blamed the captains for jack. What I am saying is that if they have a problem with something any and all of them are allowed and able to make a motion for it to be changed. No one did, no one does so not sure why people who are not Captains are not going to their Captains and asking them to make these motions for rule changes if they are so important. Let me give you a little bit of history since you have been gone a while. A Freedom League sat on the PVPEC boards for almost an entire year. A completed event ready to be posted. We held off for various reasons. One of those reasons is that every time we got ready to post it someone was on this very section of the boards "talking" about starting up the Ladder, League or some other sort of organized event. It NEVER got off the ground. Tons of people who are capable of doing it, didn't. Tons of people besides the PVPEC could have done it. They didn't. Silit and Sneaky were attempting to do it on their own and for various reasons needed/wanted the PVPEC to run it. So here we are now. Months later of hard work and daily BS and aggrivation. None of us are looking for pats on the back. We just want a fun event and to pvp and rebuild pvp in this game. We would also appreciate a little slack. Yes we have made mistakes and will learn from them. However to be quite blunt to put up with all the ******** from people that could run this crap themselves in the first place is a bit tedious. To be told that I shouldn't be Captain when I have invested a gazillion hours in to this is a direct slap in the face. I cannot possibly in any way change or add any rules without, FIVE, count them FIVE other team Captains in aggreement. Peril doesn't even have a vote. I don't know how much more clear things can be. |
Every single time something was questioned, you shifted it towards the captains saying the captains chose this or that. To me, that's shifting responsibility onto them. However, in your case, you're both a captain and event moderator. Where should your responsibilities fall under first?
I've run leagues in the past and they aren't as difficult as you make it out to be. The only difficult part might be getting it advertised on the updater and keeping count of the sign-ups. I know it sucks to organize such an event then not be able to participate in it. As it stands now, your participation in the league as a captain and as the event coordinator only causes more drama. It could affect rules, drafting, and even lineup submissions (you could wait until you have their lineup then submit a counter). Whether it does or doesn't, I don't know. The simple fact that the conflict exists is what started all of this.
Quote:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.|
Originally Posted by _Avid
(you could wait until you have their lineup then submit a counter).
|
AHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.
bitter does the lineups.
Quote:
TY Philly! <3|
Originally Posted by Phillygirl
Possible solution to this if there is a season 2 would be to have any important "decision" or event (such as the draft) performed by a non biased disinterested party. You could request a PERC officer or possibley a mod, or just someone that the captains agree on to do the draft order # picks etc. Just a thought to maintain the apearence of equality. Also CityofChange makes a very valid point re D6, more time then 1 week to get toons built would be more welcoming to new/casual PvP'rs. The updater spash screen has no "sign up by x date" and is still there, a date on that ad might be a good idea for next time. (nice job getting that btw I know they stoped doing that)
All that said this is an enourmous undertaking and I am sure alot of time went into it, so for that thank you. Since this is the first undertaking and it is such a large event there are bound to be issues, drama (duh it's PvP), and problems. I do think PvPEC rep should be able to participate in something they put so much work into. I think that as a group if there is going to be a season 2 look at what worked and what didn't and iron things out. All in all i am really glad I signed up I love my team and have learned so much from them already. I can say that my team did exactly what they where suposed to regarding the D6 even to their own detriment. They sacrificed alot of their own scheduled practice time to teach us and make sure we got practice. If the other teams D6 are getting as much help/training as we are then the D6 portion of the league will be a great success. |
Next draft will indeed be handled differently. Most thought I was joking but I think we really and seriously will assign a number to each team and then stand under the Atlas Statue and we will /e dice. That way everyone can see for themselves the pick order and there will be no drama. Plus we get the opportunity to get our RP on!
Our original intentions was to have a PVPEC rep that was not participating to handle lineups/draft pics etc so there would never be any questions about integrity. Sadly though, none that are not participating have stepped up to do it, are availble enough to do it etc. It is what it is. I don't think that there is an impartial person besides a Mod. Everyone has friends and friends of friends and it is a proven fact that when people don't get their way they will always claim foul play. So we just have to do a method where there is no doubt and then that problem is solved.
I think now I am going to start an ingame gambling ring and take bets on who wins this in the end. I have heard several teams saying it will be them or not be them and I think we are going to be pleasantly surprised.
Quote:
There has been no conflict about me being a captain and PVPEC Leader. You were the first to mention it, and the one continuing to mention it. There has been no question to my integrity or me having influence in regards to rules etc. |
Originally Posted by _Avid
Perhaps. I never mentioned anything about the original draft. I only spoke of the last, most recent draft. Your intentions and what actually occurred are the complete opposite. Excluding the vast majority of late sign-ups and allowing only a select few is not going to help PvP. If you're going to make exceptions for the late sign-ups, then it should apply for everyone, not just to specific people. If sign-ups were closed, then they should stay closed. It does suck for those short staffed teams, but don't you have rules saying 6v6 and only larger if there are enough? If 2 or even 3 of the 6 teams are short, 6v6 rule should apply (1/3 to half the league being short is a considerable amount of teams).
Every single time something was questioned, you shifted it towards the captains saying the captains chose this or that. To me, that's shifting responsibility onto them. However, in your case, you're both a captain and event moderator. Where should your responsibilities fall under first? I've run leagues in the past and they aren't as difficult as you make it out to be. The only difficult part might be getting it advertised on the updater and keeping count of the sign-ups. I know it sucks to organize such an event then not be able to participate in it. As it stands now, your participation in the league as a captain and as the event coordinator only causes more drama. It could affect rules, drafting, and even lineup submissions (you could wait until you have their lineup then submit a counter). Whether it does or doesn't, I don't know. The simple fact that the conflict exists is what started all of this. |
You may have ran leagues before but not something like this. IF you think its simple then hop in and get your feet wet. Comparing a league that was for one server to a league that drew 90% of the pvpr's to it from across all 11 servers is a bit off. I have not had a moments peace to play this game with out some questions / drama /vote needing to be taken since the first day it was posted. Me, Peril and Silit. I am not crying a river about it because I do it for the benefit of everyone to have a good time. However you discounting the time and effort like its nothing is a bit wack. In fact your need to continue on and on about an event you are not even participating in is a bit wack too. Free country, do what you do best.
I don't collect the lineups for my teams matches, of course you wouldn't know that because you are not a participant. I can't change rules. I don't handle the draft. All of your points have no points. All being an event leader means is we do all the grunt work. Maintaining communication between teams that can't get along. Making sure the rules are followed. Handling motions for rule changes etc. We don't actually make any decisions we just do all the dirty run between waitress/bag boy/chauffer type bull crap that needs to be done. Being you don't think we should be doing this dirty grunt work you are more than free to join the PVPEC and be a neutral party and do it. Let me guess you don't care to be an actual solution to this fiasco that you claim is a problem?
That is niether here nor there. You think I shouldn't be a Captain and event Leader. So noted. Your thought process isn't changing anything. Moving on.
Quote:
i want my 30 seconds back.
|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
There has been no conflict about me being a captain and PVPEC Leader. You were the first to mention it, and the one continuing to mention it. There has been no question to my integrity or me having influence in regards to rules etc.
You may have ran leagues before but not something like this. IF you think its simple then hop in and get your feet wet. Comparing a league that was for one server to a league that drew 90% of the pvpr's to it from across all 11 servers is a bit off. That is niether here nor there. You think I shouldn't be a Captain and event Leader. So noted. Your thought process isn't changing anything. Moving on. |
Quote:
only if we are practicing d6 tonight.
|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Post Deleted
|
Quote:
I'm not directly attacking you, as in you CriticalKat, I'm attacking you as in those that fall into the category of captain/participant and event coordinator. There are 3 of you that I know of, so this isn't directed at just you. I'm only replying to you because you're the only one that's mostly posting.|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
There has been no conflict about me being a captain and PVPEC Leader. You were the first to mention it, and the one continuing to mention it. There has been no question to my integrity or me having influence in regards to rules etc.
You may have ran leagues before but not something like this. IF you think its simple then hop in and get your feet wet. Comparing a league that was for one server to a league that drew 90% of the pvpr's to it from across all 11 servers is a bit off. I have not had a moments peace to play this game with out some questions / drama /vote needing to be taken since the first day it was posted. Me, Peril and Silit. I am not crying a river about it because I do it for the benefit of everyone to have a good time. However you discounting the time and effort like its nothing is a bit wack. In fact your need to continue on and on about an event you are not even participating in is a bit wack too. Free country, do what you do best. I don't collect the lineups for my teams matches, of course you wouldn't know that because you are not a participant. I can't change rules. I don't handle the draft. All of your points have no points. All being an event leader means is we do all the grunt work. Maintaining communication between teams that can't get along. Making sure the rules are followed. Handling motions for rule changes etc. We don't actually make any decisions we just do all the dirty run between waitress/bag boy/chauffer type bull crap that needs to be done. Being you don't think we should be doing this dirty grunt work you are more than free to join the PVPEC and be a neutral party and do it. Let me guess you don't care to be an actual solution to this fiasco that you claim is a problem? That is niether here nor there. You think I shouldn't be a Captain and event Leader. So noted. Your thought process isn't changing anything. Moving on. |
I didn't outright question anyone's integrity. I don't know who does what, I merely said that the possibility is out there due to the conflict of interest. There is plenty of drama already just from that alone... before I even started posting. That drama is only going to continue.
I'm not discounting any of your efforts, I said it isn't as exaggerated as you make it out to be. Let me get this straight, this single Freedom league is bigger than any past test league, or even the combined past leagues? If that's true, then kudos to you.
Quote:
No way! I swear!|
Originally Posted by black_barrier
only if we are practicing d6 tonight.
|
Seriously though we need you there to practice our super sekrit lineups!
Quote:
The drama was about Peril being on a team and handling the draft. There was an accusation that some things happened and that he was guilty of doing things to favor his team. He is in charge of the draft because we had no other neutral PVPEC rep to do it. We will indeed handle the draft differently in the future so there is no risk of fairness being questioned. He is not a Captain. I am. Silit is. Neither of us Captains have any power beyond what was already mentioned. A vote like every other Captain has. Regardless of opinions we don't just do this for nothing. We do it because we love to pvp. PVPEC rules are that any rep can participate in our events. NCsoft supports that. Our responsibility is to make sure that our participation doesn't conflict with fairness. The draft episode happened, we will learn from our mistakes. It is however not going to change the fact that we can and will continue to participate in any and all events in whatever capacity that we want.|
Originally Posted by _Avid
I didn't outright question anyone's integrity. I don't know who does what, I merely said that the possibility is out there due to the conflict of interest. There is plenty of drama already just from that alone... before I even started posting. That drama is only going to continue.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by _Avid
I'm not discounting any of your efforts, I said it isn't as exaggerated as you make it out to be. Let me get this straight, this single Freedom league is bigger than any past test league, or even the combined past leagues? If that's true, then kudos to you.
|
Quote:
I highly doubt what you're claiming. But like I said, if its true, kudos.
|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Yes it is. Basically the participation numbers are the old test ladder and the Tpvpl all wrapped up in one big event. Ty for the kudos, we were not looking for them though, just here to have fun.
|
Quote:
technically the first season of test pvp league was bigger - not sure about KoC infinity leagues but they encompassed most of the ladder pvpers as well.
|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
The drama was about Peril being on a team and handling the draft. There was an accusation that some things happened and that he was guilty of doing things to favor his team. He is in charge of the draft because we had no other neutral PVPEC rep to do it. We will indeed handle the draft differently in the future so there is no risk of fairness being questioned. He is not a Captain. I am. Silit is. Neither of us Captains have any power beyond what was already mentioned. A vote like every other Captain has. Regardless of opinions we don't just do this for nothing. We do it because we love to pvp. PVPEC rules are that any rep can participate in our events. NCsoft supports that. Our responsibility is to make sure that our participation doesn't conflict with fairness. The draft episode happened, we will learn from our mistakes. It is however not going to change the fact that we can and will continue to participate in any and all events in whatever capacity that we want.
Yes it is. Basically the participation numbers are the old test ladder and the Tpvpl all wrapped up in one big event. Ty for the kudos, we were not looking for them though, just here to have fun. |
I propose having a council of captains run season 2. That way everyone is equally non-objective and biased and there's no appearance of impropriety.
Nah, actually, I'd prefer a ladder.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Quote:
Ok let me reword it because yes the way I worded it makes it a false statement.|
Originally Posted by B_Witched
technically the first season of test pvp league was bigger - not sure about KoC infinity leagues but they encompassed most of the ladder pvpers as well.
|
Participation is on a bigger scale. There are 2 fight nights a week. 6 Rosters of d8's (basically like ladder teams) that are actually active people and not 30 people on a roster but only 8 ever show up. Fights happening weekly rather than once or twice a month. All teams participating all the time. I can remember spans of time on test where a month or 2 went by that no teams faught. I don't know about back before I6, maybe it was way more active.
Plus 6 D6 teams (Tvplp, but neither season had nearly as many signups) that are fighting weekly.
Not trying to make it out to be some huge extravaganza was just stating that comparing it to past individual leagues or even the ladder was not a fair comparison.
Quote:
This. I am sooo hoping that we are able to soon.
|
Originally Posted by Slax
Nah, actually, I'd prefer a ladder. |
Quote:
You're talking about the test ladders. We're talking about test leagues that were similar to this. Each league had as many, if not more, than this does and did weekly matches. The first 2 each had more participation then this.
|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Ok let me reword it because yes the way I worded it makes it a false statement.
Participation is on a bigger scale. There are 2 fight nights a week. 6 Rosters of d8's (basically like ladder teams) that are actually active people and not 30 people on a roster but only 8 ever show up. Fights happening weekly rather than once or twice a month. All teams participating all the time. I can remember spans of time on test where a month or 2 went by that no teams faught. I don't know about back before I6, maybe it was way more active. Plus 6 D6 teams (Tvplp, but neither season had nearly as many signups) that are fighting weekly. Not trying to make it out to be some huge extravaganza was just stating that comparing it to past individual leagues or even the ladder was not a fair comparison. |
We had over 200 signups for this league. I don't know if the test leagues held that many. I didn't play in the first one, but the second one didn't. And considering this is being held on a live server, it's pretty impressive.
Quote:
and half of them never showed up...<_<
|
Originally Posted by perilX
We had over 200 signups for this league. I don't know if the test leagues held that many. I didn't play in the first one, but the second one didn't. And considering this is being held on a live server, it's pretty impressive.
|
To those "with beef" with the PVPEC:
Do a better job / send them a PM with feedback to the event co-ordinators.
Berating them publicly for the event not being perfect = douchey & pointless.
Quote:
No way. I told them because I thought it was hilarious. |
Originally Posted by B_Witched
So I am curious, since you knew ahead of time about fifa - and you claim at least one captain on each team except for Kat's knew - did you tell the other captains in the good faith, thinking it was the right thing to do?
|
Other teams had their sights set on other people. The notion that they would suddenly toss out any interests in their original picks to take Fates, who they hardly know, is ridiculous.
Quote:
Did you find it equally funny that the same thing was happening with other players in the draft yet you failed to spread that hilarity around? Funny how you did that with the one Rick's team wanted only and ended up picking him out of spite.
|
Originally Posted by Silit
No way. I told them because I thought it was hilarious.
Other teams had their sights set on other people. The notion that they would suddenly toss out any interests in their original picks to take Fates, who they hardly know, is ridiculous. |
Quote:
If I were suddenly back in time on Sunday, I'd pick Fates. But I'd do it purely for the popcorn factor, that and to win last night's lottery.
|
Originally Posted by Silit
No way. I told them because I thought it was hilarious.
Other teams had their sights set on other people. The notion that they would suddenly toss out any interests in their original picks to take Fates, who they hardly know, is ridiculous. |
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Quote:
I have an idea for a hybrid ladder/league that I think could work.
|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
This. I am sooo hoping that we are able to soon.
|
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Quote:
Out of spite? It had nothing to do with the fact that near everyone on my team has played with him before, or that he could help out our team... oh, wait.|
Originally Posted by B_Witched
Did you find it equally funny that the same thing was happening with other players in the draft yet you failed to spread that hilarity around? Funny how you did that with the one Rick's team wanted only and ended up picking him out of spite.
|
You mention similar cases in the draft. If you're actually aware of who they are then you can certainly conclude that if spite was my goal I would have picked one of them instead.
You are entitled to your opinion. I am not stepping down from either and Captains opinions are the only relevant ones anyways. Furthermore who the hell thinks its fair for us to do all these months of work and not get to particpate in whatever capacity we want to? On a side note Peril is not a Captain of a team and he is the one this drama has to do with so these points are not relevant to the topic.
If any of you complaining about the PVPEC being Captains would like to step up and join the PVPEC to help then I might consider changing who is running things. Until then we have no one else active enough that wants to. Really the PVPEC ***** fest is getting old. NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF YOU EVEN REMOTELY ATTEMPT TO DO ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE IN REGARDS TO GETTING PVP EVENTS SUCH AS THIS OFF THE GROUND. The fact that you have the nerve to ***** and complain and have done nothing productive to make crap happen for the community looks way worse than me or peril being allowed to Captain teams if we want to.
All that said this is an enourmous undertaking and I am sure alot of time went into it, so for that thank you. Since this is the first undertaking and it is such a large event there are bound to be issues, drama (duh it's PvP), and problems. I do think PvPEC rep should be able to participate in something they put so much work into. I think that as a group if there is going to be a season 2 look at what worked and what didn't and iron things out.
All in all i am really glad I signed up I love my team and have learned so much from them already. I can say that my team did exactly what they where suposed to regarding the D6 even to their own detriment. They sacrificed alot of their own scheduled practice time to teach us and make sure we got practice. If the other teams D6 are getting as much help/training as we are then the D6 portion of the league will be a great success.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events