You have to understand one things that I have found after over 5 years of play. People have a concept of what they believe is superior and what they fail to realize is that there is more than one way with any character and especially with tanks to make a build. Your choices of primary, secondary, power pools, slotting and enhancements choices can make your build completely different from someone who picked the same primary and secondary. And what is far more important than that is the person on the other side of the screen, because you can have all the " correct " choices and have no idea how to use them.
You know what I learned to stop doing. I stopped worrying a long time ago about people talking about what build I have or what I was playing and whether it sucked or not. Am I having FUN ?? thats what I pay my 15 bucks a month for. To have fun.
People told me that my Elec/SS tank was gonna suck because Elec sucks as a tank. People kept talking about the soft cap defense yadda yadda blah blah blah... Well my Elec tank has a big fat 13% defense thats it. Yet I have survived everything I have met so far.
Why...
Because I realized I would never be able to soft cap defenses and built for regen and recharge speed. Ive got my recharge on Energize down to 37.5 seconds from 120 seconds. Also I have a lot of regen built in as well. Now between Powersink and Footstomp ive got excellent mitigation of incoming damage giving the regen time to work. And if I get in over my head ( which is rare ) I still have Power Surge which will cap everything and since my Energize will be back up before Power Surge shuts off I always have it read right after the crash. Pop a blue.. Hit Energize, Power Sink.. Defensive toggles on.. Keep fighting...
Ive been on teams and have had people go WOW I didnt think Elec was that good...
As the song goes.. Its in the way that YOU use it....
Use it and HAVE FUN !!!!!!
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
This!|
Originally Posted by airhammer
as the song goes.. Its in the way that you use it....
Use it and have fun !!!!!! |
I personally build for concept not for mechanics. That's my idea of fun.
>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
And so here concludes yet another session of:
- Even the crappy tanks are still tanks, and
- Having fun is Priority #1 of a game
Ozmosis, ah yes the Ice Tank wonder years of i4 to i6 weren't they a blast.
Ya, I say stick with your guns and forget em.
Quote:
<Walks out onto his front porch, cane in hand>|
Originally Posted by Ozmosis
My main is a tank.
I rolled him almost 5 years ago. I still play him today, and bring him out everytime there are new badges to be earned. I have been thru GDN and ED with him, and today I see him stronger than he ever was before. This said... He's Ice Armor/ Ice Melee/ Ice mastery tank. This might not mean much to the people who weren't here at the beginning, but to those who can confirm this (Looks at Aethorn :P) Ice tanks used to not only be left aside, they were even laughed at. I remember when I was first playing him, people would see me running around PI and ask me to use my powers cause they never saw an Ice tank that high level before... I remember being turned down from missions/TFs, cause the leader said the team needed a "real tank"... I remember that the only way I could get invited to a team, is if I had my empath friend with me... But I stuck with him. Kept playing him no matter what. I learned his strenghts/weaknesses, and learned to work with/around them. Yes there was alot of dying/faceplanting/teamwipes, but I learned. Today, my ice tank can herd like its an art form, go toe-to-toe with GMs/ AVs/Lord Recluse/Reischman, and has gotten the 100 PvP rep badge the honest way. I've been on teams where I have out-tanked WillPower tanks, Fire tanks, Invulnerability Tanks and even Stoners in granite. My point to the OP is, if you stick to it and put enough love in that toon, you'll make a Elec/Elec tank that can floor any competition. Take it easy, and I'll see you on the front lines. |
You young whipper-snappers don't know how good you have it! Back in my day, I could only run one armor at a time, and I liked it! Back then, we could either have good defenses, or Mez protection. But no, you couldn't have both at the same time! You youngsters get to have your cake, and eat it too! Then you complain that it wasn't good cake! Bah! Bah I say! And a humbug for good measure!
You could say that back then I had to walk to school in the snow, uphill both ways! But that would be making it seem to easy. No siree! I had to make my own snow to even walk in! That's how bad it was for us Ice Tankers! We were never invited to hang out with any of the cool people, and sometimes, I got the feeling that people tolerated me only for the added difficulty! Well, that and the cool effects.
Back then, all we did was take naps. Because we had no sleep protection. Yet all I hear from you young punks is "Oh, the Devs nerfed this," or, "Why did the Devs take this from us?" Well, you should be grateful! It's because of people like Ozmosis, and Tundara, and myself that got you to where you are today!
Now get off my lawn!
</old man rant>
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
My Ice/Stone tank thanks you.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Lol, well for starters I've had an Ice/Ice tank since the second anniversary on virtue i believe, ( don't play him much since I am usually on Justice.) But I have a Ice/Storm troller as my first toon. Heard lot of bad stuff about it, and I was regretting making it at first. It was also the first toon I leveled to 50, and I still play it. People was talking bad about it cuz they wanted a Rad, or an Emp, some type of healer. Well i stuck with it and now I love playing it. And after awhile I started to see other Ice/Storms out there since I made mine. I say this, if you enjoy playing with the toon, do not let anyone else tell you differently. It is all how you play your toon, and what you put into it as well. Enjoy your el/el Tank. Make it your own.
ROFL @OP. To answer your question, no it was not wrong that is how people learn. This thread is pretty awesome to read. It brings up the problem a lot of people who are experienced have when they are finding a PuG.
It's not your elec/elec, you are completely correct about people having their crutch. AE has become the biggest cause of all this. We have people who are farmed to 50 on one toon on their first day. Those people ask questions to these farmers who are all USING THE SAME FRAKING BUILD. So we have newer players who think they know how to play this game and go and make a new toon to actually play the game when in fact they have no skills in:
1. Teaming and(this is the best part, you brought it up when u were examining the teammates to see who would be the weakest and draw the most aggro) knowing how their toon plays and how their teammates play.
2. Finding Steel Canyon
3. Since they have already been told how to play the game by one person they shut themselves in and become cocky a-holes.
Back when I learned how to play mmos and this game(this was my first I just quit a lot to try new games but I always seem to come back) We learned by READING our powers, and working together. If anyone got out of hand we would show them first hand what they are doing wrong like you did when you ditched the team to die.
I recently made a toon on freeDUMB to see what things were like, meet new people, and all that good stuff cause pinnacle has been slow lately. Now the reason I use the term freeDUMB is because the majority of people over there that I have personally ran into think there is only one way to do everything. I was told that fire fire tanks are useless unless they get IOs. I called BS. I explained that I can use a tank with just SOs and run any TF in the game. The reason I can do that is because I know how teams work in this game and it's not just a tank taking "alpha" and everyone following. There is a huge process that goes into it(thinking about making a general guide about tanking but don't know if i have time about this lol)
Anyways blah blah blah right? lol back to a point I was trying to get across but totally blanked out on. There really is nothing we can do to elp these people who are to blind to see the whole picture. The only way they will learn is by u stepping back and letting them die.
EDIT: lol Before I started this game my uncle showed me his ICE tanker and like it was said above, they were one of the worst, least liked tankers out there. Thought I would post this because I thought the few posts above were pretty dang funny too.
Second EDIT: lol I also tried confronting this dude and helping him with how to use his kb correctly, to try and use it to keep things off of him and into the main group or in the ice patch or tar patch or whatever. ect. He told me to F***-off pretty much and so I let him play like he wanted, it ended up taking twice as long to do the mission because every patch layed down wasn't able to work since we were running around for the enemies. So the ignorance is not just for us tanks, its for every class in this game.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Desitre
I recently made a toon on freeDUMB
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Get. Off. Of. Freedom.
|
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Let's please go from a person telling how people said bad things about them to flaming servers, etc.
Elec/Elec is fine. Those guys were dicks.
Now, go back to telling everyone how worthless my server is, hypocrites.
Quote:
I never said that you were dumb, I said that QUOTE: "Now the reason I use the term freeDUMB is because the majority of people over there that I have personally ran into think there is only one way to do everything." by Desitre.
|
Originally Posted by Postagulous
Let's please go from a person telling how people said bad things about them to flaming servers, etc.
Elec/Elec is fine. Those guys were dicks. Now, go back to telling everyone how worthless my server is, hypocrites. |
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Iv started making it a point to make builds people wont play,and iv come up with some interesting mixes i enjoy.
So far,my new Spines/Elc Scrapper is very fun,and does very well at tackling mobs solo,at lvl 4,i went intot he sewers,and i leveled to level 7 before i left...ohh by the way...did i mention i was aolo?NO?!Well,i just did.
I couldnt handle mobs past the first 3,because at lvl 4,Bosses kicked my butt pretty hard...so i didnt try...i stayed till lvl 6 on lvl 3-4 mobs at the beggining of the sewers....then i ran in a little ways and could handle the bosses,not being a tanker,i couldnt tank that well,but,lightning field,and spine burst,made a very big mess of things.
So,im going to continue making builds i dont see people playing,and i have yet to see another Spines/Elc Scrapper...not to say there isnt more of them running around,but,its surprisingly cool.I used Cyrstal Spines that are baby blueinside,with the edges royal blue...very pretty...and with the electric armor being royalish blue,and matching the crystal spines,the theme of both of these powers is simple.
The crystal spines absorb light,solar energy,and electrical disscharges,and store it all for the lightning that cascades off of them,making a lightning aura.
So far iv ran into another scrapper telling me my costume,and artistry for my spines was very cool,but that i shoulda picked Willpower with my Spines...i just gave him the "LOL" and ran off,while on the other end of my screen shaking my head,and smirking at the A-Typical behavior.
Quote:
I'm surprised by this. As I've seen alot of Spines/ELA. It's the new Spines/Fire, which was the new Spines/DA. :P|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Iv started making it a point to make builds people wont play,and iv come up with some interesting mixes i enjoy.
So far,my new Spines/Elc Scrapper is very fun,and does very well at tackling mobs solo,at lvl 4,i went intot he sewers,and i leveled to level 7 before i left...ohh by the way...did i mention i was aolo?NO?!Well,i just did. I couldnt handle mobs past the first 3,because at lvl 4,Bosses kicked my butt pretty hard...so i didnt try...i stayed till lvl 6 on lvl 3-4 mobs at the beggining of the sewers....then i ran in a little ways and could handle the bosses,not being a tanker,i couldnt tank that well,but,lightning field,and spine burst,made a very big mess of things. So,im going to continue making builds i dont see people playing,and i have yet to see another Spines/Elc Scrapper...not to say there isnt more of them running around,but,its surprisingly cool.I used Cyrstal Spines that are baby blueinside,with the edges royal blue...very pretty...and with the electric armor being royalish blue,and matching the crystal spines,the theme of both of these powers is simple. The crystal spines absorb light,solar energy,and electrical disscharges,and store it all for the lightning that cascades off of them,making a lightning aura. So far iv ran into another scrapper telling me my costume,and artistry for my spines was very cool,but that i shoulda picked Willpower with my Spines...i just gave him the "LOL" and ran off,while on the other end of my screen shaking my head,and smirking at the A-Typical behavior. |
But like I said to my SG mate, pick what's fun for you, don't worry if it's the top best.
That said...I totally admit to not trusting some powerset combos for certain things, untill Ive seen the player in action. But some sets are easier than others.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Please.. If I listened to folks... over the last five years
I wouldnt have made
NRG/NRG blaster because it has too much knockback and you wont get on teams..
Elec/Elec Blaster because Electric is underpowered..
Rad/Rad defender because it not an empath..
Ice/Stone tank because Ice Armor sucks
Grav/Kin cause its not Fire/Kin
All Human PB because you cant do anything well
Ice/Storm controller because Ice Sucks
Arch/Devices Blaster because Devices sucks
Elec/SS tank because Elec Armor sucks
Merc/TA Mastermind because Merc and Trick Arrow Sucks
SS/SR brute because SR sucks
and yet all these toons are FUN and they are all 50's...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
It seems as if there is someone to hate on almost every class in the game now adays. Plant/plant doms first came out and everyone loved them. When they came out on trollers people said"I can't see my target wah wah wah"
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Quote:
Hear hear! |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
<Walks out onto his front porch, cane in hand>
You young whipper-snappers don't know how good you have it! Back in my day, I could only run one armor at a time, and I liked it! Back then, we could either have good defenses, or Mez protection. But no, you couldn't have both at the same time! You youngsters get to have your cake, and eat it too! Then you complain that it wasn't good cake! Bah! Bah I say! And a humbug for good measure! You could say that back then I had to walk to school in the snow, uphill both ways! But that would be making it seem to easy. No siree! I had to make my own snow to even walk in! That's how bad it was for us Ice Tankers! We were never invited to hang out with any of the cool people, and sometimes, I got the feeling that people tolerated me only for the added difficulty! Well, that and the cool effects. Back then, all we did was take naps. Because we had no sleep protection. Yet all I hear from you young punks is "Oh, the Devs nerfed this," or, "Why did the Devs take this from us?" Well, you should be grateful! It's because of people like Ozmosis, and Tundara, and myself that got you to where you are today! Now get off my lawn! </old man rant> |
I miss the good ol' days.
I felt like a unique snowflake amongst all the granite tanks. =. .=
Quote:
ha! that reminds me of the devs making me take burn not for damage but cause it was my hold/sleep and immob protection! forgot about that..too funny
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Back then, all we did was take naps. Because we had no sleep protection. ! |
Quote:
Hah! I remember that! I also remember that it didn't work quite right. I have an old old demofile of my Fire Tank tanking Babbage and constantly getting detoggled, despite the fact Burn patches were on the ground. Just a guess, but I'm thinking Burn's status protection wasn't set to self stack, so there would be a split second right after dropping a patch that would leave Fire Tanks without status protection.|
Originally Posted by Coldmed
ha! that reminds me of the devs making me take burn not for damage but cause it was my hold/sleep and immob protection! forgot about that..too funny
|
This is a documented problem and the entire reason why Clear Mind's +status protection is set to self stack, so reapplying it doesn't cause toggle drops on allies. I do think there is an easy way around it. Have CM apply a short stacking +status protection buff, then flag the 90s +status protection to apply on a slight delay and be unstackable. So, visually instead of looking like this:
Code:
Current
Cast 1 <---CM1-->
Cast 2 <---CM2-->
Cast 3 <---CM3-->
Not Stacking
Cast 1 <-> CM1
Cast 2 <-> CM2
Cast 3 <---CM3-->
Proposed
Cast 1 <> CM1
<--> CM1
Cast 2 <> CM2
<--> CM2
Cast 3 <---CM3-->
<-->CM3
(Also, the [code] tag is annoying. Copy & Paste the above into Notepad if it's all misaligned.)
I was also there for the old days, when my INV tank couldn't move if he wanted to avoid getting mezzed since I didn't have teleport at the time and Unyielding Stance rooted you. Same problem with my Stone Tank, in addition to which his armors didn't stack.
Both tanks have long since hit 50 and seen many changes in how they play, and I have at least one tank of almost every primary (still need to make a Fire tank I want to keep, have yet to find the "right" secondary) who does quite well for him/her self, so I feel fairly confident in saying that no matter what anyone else might think of your set choices and/or power selections therein, as long as YOU enjoy it then you made the right choice.
For those not familiar:
The main problem Ice (and pre-Granite Stone) used to have was that the critter tohit mechanincs were quite different back then so a spawn of +2s could easily be lethal to a +def-oriented set since the sets' defenses did not keep up with critter tohit scaling (I am ignoring effects of secondaries for simplicity, they could have a large impact in this area). Invuln SHOULD have had the same problem (to a lesser degree due to high resists), but Invincibility was badly bugged and giving far more protetion than it should have thus it became the default go-to Tank for most situations (a properly built Fire Tank could give it a run for its money due to very high killspeed reducing incoming fire) since once you herded the first few mobs you became untouchable save for autohit or Psi damage. It did not help things that INV's Tier 9, Unstoppable, could be made permanent back then which meant you had capped resists and defenses at almost all times.
Quote:
As a note, theres no way you will drain LR's End in the STF. The buffs the towers give him are insane (Arcanaville calculated that with tower buffs LR could have tanked the entire pre I9 Hamidon constellation, with mitos). What you want is a lot of defense while the towers are up, from insps if necessary. By design, he can drop a resist-capped tank. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
In fact, I keep wondering if a ELA/ tanker who relies on +RCH from set bonuses...if that would be enough for tanking the ITF.
[snip] And I don't know how well it would work against tanking LR, in the STF. |
To the OP, as I found with the much maligned Fire tank, if you actually use one of your dual builds to build a tank dedicated to being sturdy in order to tank for a team any tank can do a great job against almost all foes. Get good at setting a pace for a team, based on the team makeup, and surviving, and the kinds of players you WANT to be playing with won't care what your powerset is. You'd really rather not be playing with people who "heard this powerset is gimp, so give it up".
I have a lvl47 lec/ss tank, and had a lvl50 em/lec brute.
Anyone who thinks a lec tank has poor survivability hasnt seen one go against rikti.
you've got good all round resistance, heavy energy resist, and with tough: a fairly high chunk of smashing/lethal resist, and a hell of a self heal since the recent changes.
Sure, its no granite tank, but you you dont have to be followed by a kin everywhere for a start... in fact chances are you'll be one of the fastest moving on the team with the +speed/rech power, which is good for getting into a mob before an overenthusiastic scrapper.