I would be all for this.
All they would have to do is Adjust the Negative Energy resistance of Dark Embrace to the same scale as the Smashing/Lethal resist, and the Negative Energy resist of Murky Cloud to the same scale as the Fire/Cold resist. (Ok, actually that would only hit ~67.3% for scrappers and 89.7% for tankers, but that's pretty close, and both changes are perfectly reasonable.)
I kind of also think it should have some measure of ToHit Debuff Resistance, given that that's the standard secondary effect of Dark powers.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Probably in Cloak of Darkness would be where that would make the most sense. The power already gives +perception and resistance to perception debuffs, the two usually go together. (See: focused accuracy, targetting drone, tactics) Usually with +tohit as well but that might be overpowering, I dunno.| I kind of also think it should have some measure of ToHit Debuff Resistance, given that that's the standard secondary effect of Dark powers. |
Thematically it works as well, the power makes you pretty much made out of darkness. Adding a little more to that with normal dark powers isn't going to do much, hence resistance to the usual tohit debuff that dark powers typically carry. The same argument could probably be made for adding a little more neg energy resist in there as well - enough to get to the res cap, maybe.
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lolDarkArmour
I think (personally mind) that it needs more than just that. A good few number tweaks to make it able to stand up would be nice.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I entirely agree...|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
lolDarkArmour
I think (personally mind) that it needs more than just that. A good few number tweaks to make it able to stand up would be nice. |
/Rant
For one it needs the end cost of it's toggle reigned in.
Invulnerability has 3 toggles that use 0.26, 0.26 and 0.21 end/sec or 0.73total.
Shield has 4 toggles with costs of 0.21, 0.21, 0.21 and 0.16 end/sec for a total of 0.79 end/sec
Dark Armor has four toggles (And that's only counting the armors) that cost 0.21, 0.21, 0.21 and 0.26 for a total of 0.89 AND needs to run Acrobatics for KB protection piling an additional 0.33 end/sec for a grand total of 1.22 before you even consider adding the damage aura, Fear Aura or Stun Aura.
Dark Regen's end cost is also completely unreasonable. Yes sure it's a potentially massive heal but almost all of it's potential is going to be wasted anyhow. What does it matter that you can heal back 300% of your hitpoints when you ONLY HAVE 100%? If you only get 1/3rd of the power's benefit, why do you still have to pay for it as if you were getting the whole thing?
Now, I'm fine with Dark's end use being balanced soley around it's defensive toggles, with the auras having added costs on top of that, But IMO it should either be balanced to include an alotment for Acrobatics, OR have KB protection added in so that you dont need to add the extra end cost of Acrobatics anyway.
With regard to the auras, CoF really needs work Either get rid of that huge accuracy penalty, make the -tohit debuff autohit, or chop it's end cost down to 0.33end/sec. As is it's most often skipped and rarely worth it anyhow.
/Rant
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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^ Massively /signed|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
I entirely agree...
/Rant For one it needs the end cost of it's toggle reigned in. Invulnerability has 3 toggles that use 0.26, 0.26 and 0.21 end/sec or 0.73total. Shield has 4 toggles with costs of 0.21, 0.21, 0.21 and 0.16 end/sec for a total of 0.79 end/sec Dark Armor has four toggles (And that's only counting the armors) that cost 0.21, 0.21, 0.21 and 0.26 for a total of 0.89 AND needs to run Acrobatics for KB protection piling an additional 0.33 end/sec for a grand total of 1.22 before you even consider adding the damage aura, Fear Aura or Stun Aura. Dark Regen's end cost is also completely unreasonable. Yes sure it's a potentially massive heal but almost all of it's potential is going to be wasted anyhow. What does it matter that you can heal back 300% of your hitpoints when you ONLY HAVE 100%? If you only get 1/3rd of the power's benefit, why do you still have to pay for it as if you were getting the whole thing? Now, I'm fine with Dark's end use being balanced soley around it's defensive toggles, with the auras having added costs on top of that, But IMO it should either be balanced to include an alotment for Acrobatics, OR have KB protection added in so that you dont need to add the extra end cost of Acrobatics anyway. With regard to the auras, CoF really needs work Either get rid of that huge accuracy penalty, make the -tohit debuff autohit, or chop it's end cost down to 0.33end/sec. As is it's most often skipped and rarely worth it anyhow. /Rant |
Armour sets that purposefully leave holes while still costing the same ammount of end are horrible. I managed to get a DB/DA Brute to 32 before deleting him from frustration. The actual resistance values of DA are sub-par and, even if you do get all the sparklies for it, thats at the cost of a massive chunk of endurance which is, in the end, crippling.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ugh... Yeah, Dark Armour is a huge mess, especially in terms of endurance cost. Protection-wise, it sort of works, between the relatively low static protection, the nice heal and the control auras, but it costs so damn much it's often just not sustainable. Even just the shields by themselves are too expensive for what they are, especially Cloak of Darkness. Why is that power so gosh-dang expensive when it provide benefits which so rarely come into play?|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
I entirely agree...
/Rant For one it needs the end cost of it's toggle reigned in. Invulnerability has 3 toggles that use 0.26, 0.26 and 0.21 end/sec or 0.73total. Shield has 4 toggles with costs of 0.21, 0.21, 0.21 and 0.16 end/sec for a total of 0.79 end/sec Dark Armor has four toggles (And that's only counting the armors) that cost 0.21, 0.21, 0.21 and 0.26 for a total of 0.89 AND needs to run Acrobatics for KB protection piling an additional 0.33 end/sec for a grand total of 1.22 before you even consider adding the damage aura, Fear Aura or Stun Aura. Dark Regen's end cost is also completely unreasonable. Yes sure it's a potentially massive heal but almost all of it's potential is going to be wasted anyhow. What does it matter that you can heal back 300% of your hitpoints when you ONLY HAVE 100%? If you only get 1/3rd of the power's benefit, why do you still have to pay for it as if you were getting the whole thing? Now, I'm fine with Dark's end use being balanced soley around it's defensive toggles, with the auras having added costs on top of that, But IMO it should either be balanced to include an alotment for Acrobatics, OR have KB protection added in so that you dont need to add the extra end cost of Acrobatics anyway. With regard to the auras, CoF really needs work Either get rid of that huge accuracy penalty, make the -tohit debuff autohit, or chop it's end cost down to 0.33end/sec. As is it's most often skipped and rarely worth it anyhow. /Rant |
And Cloak of Fear is just insulting. It costs a hideous amount, it does barely anything and it hits so inaccurately. This power is simply not worth its endurance cost for what it does.
Dark Armour really needs to be balanced with cost in mind. The set has seven toggles, four of which are shields that are necessary pretty much full-time. From then on, you just have to account for the fact that people may want to run a heavy toggle on top of that, seen as how they're what the set gets for lacking so much self-protection, but they're just so incredibly expensive and do so little.
Personally, I'd like to see Dark toggle costs lowered across the board and some small-scale knockback protection added in Cloak of Darkness. Enough to resist the simple things, like baseball bats and pistols, but not quite enough to resist boss knockback attacks and such. The set has more than enough utility. Making it a little easier to use that utility and at least nodding at a patch towards the biggest hole would go a long way, in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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/signed
DA does need some serious adjusting to bring it in line with the rest of the sets.
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I don't think DA needs capped neg energy resists. Although Fire Armor has it (and is DA's closest analog), Fire Armor also doesn't have nearly as much possible mitigation. Although I wouldn't be opposed to an upward tweek to neg reisists, I don't think it's really needed.
Now I *do* think that DA should be able to laugh at -ToHit similarly to how Elec can -END/-recovery. Adding the debuff resist to one of the res toggles, the mez resist toggle and the stealth aura/the passive would probably be where you'd stick it in. I mean, you're someone constantly fighting with black clouds hovering around you, you could probably fight blindfolded by now...
I'd advocate for an increase to the -ToHit debuff in Cloak of Fear. High enough to make it effective defense and I think DA would be dandy as it is. Despite what you may think, DA isn't all that bad and can work very well for mitigation and tanking. But having specialties like other sets do is just a bonus.
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The -tohit resistance would be a nice add on as well.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I don't think DA needs capped neg energy resists. Although Fire Armor has it (and is DA's closest analog), Fire Armor also doesn't have nearly as much possible mitigation. Although I wouldn't be opposed to an upward tweek to neg reisists, I don't think it's really needed.
Now I *do* think that DA should be able to laugh at -ToHit similarly to how Elec can -END/-recovery. Adding the debuff resist to one of the res toggles, the mez resist toggle and the stealth aura/the passive would probably be where you'd stick it in. I mean, you're someone constantly fighting with black clouds hovering around you, you could probably fight blindfolded by now... I'd advocate for an increase to the -ToHit debuff in Cloak of Fear. High enough to make it effective defense and I think DA would be dandy as it is. Despite what you may think, DA isn't all that bad and can work very well for mitigation and tanking. But having specialties like other sets do is just a bonus. |
However, I'd personally, just love to see the NEgative Energy Resist brought to cap for DA users. It just makes since to me.
Ice Armor caps it's Cold Resist, and then if the enemy is within the Ice Armor Users chilling Embrace get's the damage reduced by another 14%. That's without any resist slotting.
Fire Armor for Scrappers and Brutes can reach 75% (90% for Brutes) if they take Temp Protection (and for the slow resistance, it's not all bad). But the point is, the ability to do so is there.
Tankers can cap it without Temperature Protection.
Electric Armor gets to 90% easily for Brutes and Scrapper (caps at 75% for Scrappers).
Seeing as how being able to cap Negative Energy wouldn't be game breaking for a DA user, I'd love to see those numbers raised just for concept. And it goes well in line with the other elemental sets.
That said, I'd also like to see Energy Aura gain capped Energy Resist too...but I'll worry about that set when it gets ported, because I figure it'll see some changes then, due to Conserve Power.
And for Brutes/Scrapper INV to beable to hit the 75% mark with Tough, for Smashing/Lethal Damage. But it's a well to do set as is...so not to worried about it either.
It's all about Dark Armor.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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If Dark Armor gets allowed KB protection then I'd want SR to get fear protection dammit.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Ugh... Yeah, Dark Armour is a huge mess, especially in terms of endurance cost. Protection-wise, it sort of works, between the relatively low static protection, the nice heal and the control auras, but it costs so damn much it's often just not sustainable. Even just the shields by themselves are too expensive for what they are, especially Cloak of Darkness. Why is that power so gosh-dang expensive when it provide benefits which so rarely come into play?
And Cloak of Fear is just insulting. It costs a hideous amount, it does barely anything and it hits so inaccurately. This power is simply not worth its endurance cost for what it does. Dark Armour really needs to be balanced with cost in mind. The set has seven toggles, four of which are shields that are necessary pretty much full-time. From then on, you just have to account for the fact that people may want to run a heavy toggle on top of that, seen as how they're what the set gets for lacking so much self-protection, but they're just so incredibly expensive and do so little. Personally, I'd like to see Dark toggle costs lowered across the board and some small-scale knockback protection added in Cloak of Darkness. Enough to resist the simple things, like baseball bats and pistols, but not quite enough to resist boss knockback attacks and such. The set has more than enough utility. Making it a little easier to use that utility and at least nodding at a patch towards the biggest hole would go a long way, in my opinion. |
But anyway though, I've never played DA, but i'll accept the idea of the tohit debuff resistance as well as a possible neg- energy resistance buff.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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If /invul can cap its S/L resist without getting into the fighting pool then /Signed
*General Statement about this post*
Yes, Invul has some defense in Invincibility and DA is mostly a resistance based set. However, DA has a self heal that recharges quicker than Invul's Dull pain and has -tohit.
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It also requires an accuracy check, mobs, and is a monster in endurance consumption.|
Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
If /invul can cap its S/L resist without getting into the fighting pool then /Signed
*General Statement about this post* Yes, Invul has some defense in Invincibility and DA is mostly a resistance based set. However, DA has a self heal that recharges quicker than Invul's Dull pain and has -tohit. |
Invul is an *all over* Resistance set, with higher numbers in S/L and some added defence in Invinciblity and Tough Hide. Dark Armour is...well, a mess? It has an offensive aura, a stun aura, a stealth/piddly defence toggle...It has sub-par numbers for pretty much everything else.
Oh, and the most ludicrous endurnace drain since MA/SR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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The powerset itself strikes me as something that shouldn't have made it past beta. The devs should've taken another look and said 'Hmm... Well, why don't we work on this a bit more?' and then release it later on.
My biggest complaints about the set:
- No KB protection. I don't need to elaborate on that.
- Completely hides the costume! CoH is famous for it's costume creator, and this set just neuters it.
- Intense NEED for toggles. 4 toggles for defense, 3 offer some sort of Aura.
- Lack of decent auras: Damage vs. Endurance; none of them are worth it. Sorry to say.
- Dark Regeneration, as mentioned, heals for about 300% of your health. Would be spectacular if it mattered. :P
- Soul Transfer - Good idea, but we don't need more sets that have a Tier 9 that requires you to die.
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^ Sums up nicely, really. At least the rez does damage and...stun? I think? Unlike WP where you just get up again...and probably die again.|
Originally Posted by Sigium
The powerset itself strikes me as something that shouldn't have made it past beta. The devs should've taken another look and said 'Hmm... Well, why don't we work on this a bit more?' and then release it later on.
My biggest complaints about the set: - No KB protection. I don't need to elaborate on that. - Completely hides the costume! CoH is famous for it's costume creator, and this set just neuters it. - Intense NEED for toggles. 4 toggles for defense, 3 offer some sort of Aura. - Lack of decent auras: Damage vs. Endurance; none of them are worth it. Sorry to say. - Dark Regeneration, as mentioned, heals for about 300% of your health. Would be spectacular if it mattered. :P - Soul Transfer - Good idea, but we don't need more sets that have a Tier 9 that requires you to die. |
Seriously, I still do not get the things like KB holes in armour sets. I mean...why? Just why?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Agreed except the solution for the costume hiding should be an option and not a replacement (got a character that uses the graphics to great effect).
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Originally Posted by Sigium
The powerset itself strikes me as something that shouldn't have made it past beta. The devs should've taken another look and said 'Hmm... Well, why don't we work on this a bit more?' and then release it later on.
My biggest complaints about the set: - No KB protection. I don't need to elaborate on that. - Completely hides the costume! CoH is famous for it's costume creator, and this set just neuters it. - Intense NEED for toggles. 4 toggles for defense, 3 offer some sort of Aura. - Lack of decent auras: Damage vs. Endurance; none of them are worth it. Sorry to say. - Dark Regeneration, as mentioned, heals for about 300% of your health. Would be spectacular if it mattered. :P - Soul Transfer - Good idea, but we don't need more sets that have a Tier 9 that requires you to die. |
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Well, WP has nothing to complain about considering it get a mini-tier 9 + a rez earlier on. And that's not even mentioning the +dmg, +ToHit, +recovery and +rech bonus attached to that self rez.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
^ Sums up nicely, really. At least the rez does damage and...stun? I think? Unlike WP where you just get up again...and probably die again.
Seriously, I still do not get the things like KB holes in armour sets. I mean...why? Just why? |
In all honestly, it's probably one of the *better* self rezzes because you can just pop that god-mode afterwards.
As for Soul Transfer, it's not *that* bad. Yes it stuns....a mag *30* stun! What can resist that barring a GM? But I wouldn't be opposed to adding a self buff to it like a +def per foe for 60sec afterwards...or perhaps an unresistable debuff to dmg and ToHit on the foe?
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well, WP has nothing to complain about considering it get a mini-tier 9 + a rez earlier on. And that's not even mentioning the +dmg, +ToHit, +recovery and +rech bonus attached to that self rez.
In all honestly, it's probably one of the *better* self rezzes because you can just pop that god-mode afterwards. As for Soul Transfer, it's not *that* bad. Yes it stuns....a mag *30* stun! What can resist that barring a GM? But I wouldn't be opposed to adding a self buff to it like a +def per foe for 60sec afterwards...or perhaps an unresistable debuff to dmg and ToHit on the foe? |
All Tier 9th self-rezzes are garbage and should be replaced. Any power that requires the player to die can always be replaced by something more useful. There is no logic in defending powers such as Rise of the Phoenix and Soul Transfer, especially now will all the sets we have. Anyone who advocates ST and ROTP remaining in FA and DA is a fool who is pissing on the wheels of progress.
Dark Armor needs a few more improvements other than this but whatever; I will approve. Fire Aura also needs much attention as well.
I don't give a damn how lacking in logic it might be, you will not take my Rise of the Phoenix. Just because you don't like the power is no reason to ask it be removed from the game. If you don't like it, don't take it. Make your character with a different set, or take the fighting pool instead or something.
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LOL! Well too ****ing bad! Because Soul Transfer and Rise of the Phoenix are *NOT* going anywhere! |
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
All Tier 9th self-rezzes are garbage and should be replaced. Any power that requires the player to die can always be replaced by something more useful. There is no logic in defending powers such as Rise of the Phoenix and Soul Transfer, especially now will all the sets we have. Anyone who advocates ST and ROTP remaining in FA and DA is a fool who is pissing on the wheels of progress.
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You can piss and moan and call people fools all you ****ing want but it ain't gonna do **** for ya!
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Way to nerf Sands of Mu, dude! What have you got against veterans!?!?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I also don't see how this would be overpowering at all. If it is, i'll nix my suggestion.
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just kidding
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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I remember people did studies a long time ago comparing survival between different power sets. And dark armor was among the top on average because of dark regeneration, provided the player has enough endurance to sustain such usage. But the study was done long time ago, maybe it's not applicable anymore.
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I think this should be a good idea, just for thematic reason.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
...sadly, I look over at Electrical Armor and Fire Armor, and what do I see?
Capped Electric and Fire Resistance respectively. Please...please...make it so Dark Armor can cap Negative Energy. It wouldn't be game breaking at all.In fact, it might just make Dark Armor tankers even better tanks for the end of the ITF. But that aside, I'd just like it for the feel of the set. Dark Armor should be laughing at the Dark Blasting enemies...and, sadly, that's not always the case. I also don't see how this would be overpowering at all. If it is, i'll nix my suggestion. But untill that time...give DA users capped Negative Energy Resistance! |
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Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Agreed except the solution for the costume hiding should be an option and not a replacement (got a character that uses the graphics to great effect).
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RotP should stay right as it is. I will (one of these days...) make a Fire/Fire/Fire blaster...
Nuke, possibly die, RotP. Burny burny burny.
-toddles of to make another blaster build-
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
I remember people did studies a long time ago comparing survival between different power sets. And dark armor was among the top on average because of dark regeneration, provided the player has enough endurance to sustain such usage. But the study was done long time ago, maybe it's not applicable anymore.
I think this should be a good idea, just for thematic reason. I think there is a no-FX option for customizing dark armor, then maybe the cloak of darkness won't make the toon transparent. Probably I'm wrong, I haven't played my dark armor brute for a while. |
Dark Armor, I didn't find all that bad. Yes, you'll want KB protection. Because it sucks to get ping pong balled all over the map.
However, if you go witht he current trend to try and get alot of defense plugged into the toon with IOs, I'd think you'd feel the KB pains even less, and then you can rely on less KB protection.
And yeah, my suggestion is more of a themetic one.
Yes, it'd likely neuter the negative energy wielding enemies, one would face in game, but...so what? :P You are a Negative Energy wielding hero/villain. You should be laughing at them.
And it would still have the low Energy Resist (oh how I feel that one).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Might as well answer that, I guess. Yes, there is. It's called "No Pulse or Fade," and it is relevant for exactly two powers - Cloak of Fear, which makes it so it doesn't make you fade (AT ALL), and I believe Obsidian Shield, or whichever toggle normally makes you pulse and fade darker, causing it to stop doing that. The rest of the powers are either Original or Tintable, with Tintable using the Dark theme.
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Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
I think there is a no-FX option for customizing dark armor, then maybe the cloak of darkness won't make the toon transparent. Probably I'm wrong, I haven't played my dark armor brute for a while.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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...sadly, I look over at Electrical Armor and Fire Armor, and what do I see?
It wouldn't be game breaking at all.
Capped Electric and Fire Resistance respectively.
Please...please...make it so Dark Armor can cap Negative Energy.
In fact, it might just make Dark Armor tankers even better tanks for the end of the ITF.
But that aside, I'd just like it for the feel of the set. Dark Armor should be laughing at the Dark Blasting enemies...and, sadly, that's not always the case.
I also don't see how this would be overpowering at all. If it is, i'll nix my suggestion. But untill that time...give DA users capped NEgative Energy Resistance!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection