Universal Travel ENH can't go into sprints?
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Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2009-12-14 22:17 in Player Questions
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Has nothing to do with ninja run - especially since you can't slot ninja run.|
Originally Posted by Texarkana
Like the subject says, what's up with that? Why are the sprints and prestige power slide limited to running and jumping enh's only? I was hoping to slot Blessing of the Zephyr into power slide. Has this been discussed, is it an oversight, or is it perhaps an oversight that won't be reconsidered now to avoid indirect stacking with ninja run?
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Power slide is actually the reason - that and the the CoH Pre-Order sprints, of which a 12 month veteran has all four. So if you are a 12-monther, and have the Power Slide, you get a total of SIX powers you can slot Uni. travel IOs in at no cost of power picks. They didn't want that.
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Either because sprint has both enhanceable jump and run speed, therefor either causing a bug or double dipping, or because it was deemed too powerful. I mean, they are by far the best set bonuses for travel powers IMO.
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This is why.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Power slide is actually the reason - that and the the CoH Pre-Order sprints, of which a 12 month veteran has all four. So if you are a 12-monther, and have the Power Slide, you get a total of SIX powers you can slot Uni. travel IOs in at no cost of power picks. They didn't want that.
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This is the reason. |
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Has nothing to do with ninja run - especially since you can't slot ninja run.
Power slide is actually the reason - that and the the CoH Pre-Order sprints, of which a 12 month veteran has all four. So if you are a 12-monther, and have the Power Slide, you get a total of SIX powers you can slot Uni. travel IOs in at no cost of power picks. They didn't want that. |
Things like Blessing of the Zephyr or Winter's Gift could be stacked very highly with no power picks or slots invested if these powers allowed Universal Travel sets.
So, they don't.
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Yeah, but unless you want/need a lot of Slow Resistance or Knockback protection, you'd have to spend some slots to get the set bonuses. Plus, I can't recall the last time I even saw the Knockback Resistance piece from "Blessing of the Zephyr" on the AH. (With my luck, there's one up there right now, and I'm stuck at work.)
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Originally Posted by Justaris
This is the reason.
Things like Blessing of the Zephyr or Winter's Gift could be stacked very highly with no power picks or slots invested if these powers allowed Universal Travel sets. So, they don't. |
True, but you could also get some pretty decent Set bonuses for a pretty trivial investment of slots and zero investment of powers. Bottom line is that it amounts to a potentially significant build advantage from five BotZ Set Bonuses without the need to get all the powers a non-Vet would need to do the same thing. Plus Slow Res, plus KB protect, and so on and so forth.
But enough beating this equine.
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Yes, BotZ and WG both have extremely good set bonuses, especially considering the effect per slot. With the various Sprint powers barred from taking Universal Travel sets, the only way you can stack the BotZ/WG set bonuses is by using up all your power pools on travel, not to mention all those power picks. And even then, you don't hit the 5-bonus cap.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Yes, BotZ and WG both have extremely good set bonuses, especially considering the effect per slot. With the various Sprint powers barred from taking Universal Travel sets, the only way you can stack the BotZ/WG set bonuses is by using up all your power pools on travel, not to mention all those power picks. And even then, you don't hit the 5-bonus cap.
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Um, all the Teleport powers can slot Universal Travel (according to the wiki), and then you just need, say, Hover or Combat Jumping. That's five.
Seems like a more effective way to meet the spirit of the argument (restrict stacking of the bonuses using on "free" travel powers or additional travel power selections) is to impose a "law of 1" for universal travel power set bonuses and make the BotZ KB protection unique (if it isn't already). Or it could all just stay as is. I appreciate the responses.
@Texarkana
@Thexder
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Fair enough; I didn't think about the non-travel pool powers. But that's still 3-5 (depending on if you're a City Traveler or if you would have used Ninja Run otherwise) powers you wouldn't have otherwise taken.
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Originally Posted by Kierthos
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Um, all the Teleport powers can slot Universal Travel (according to the wiki), and then you just need, say, Hover or Combat Jumping. That's five. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Oh yeah, it's not a great choice of powers or slotting unless you really want to stock up on Ranged and AOE defense. If you were planning on taking a couple powers from Teleport or Leaping or Flight anyway, then slotting the appropriate powers in those pools with Universal Travel isn't a bad idea, but I couldn't see myself ever taking them specfically for those IO sets. I take those powers to get around faster.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Fair enough; I didn't think about the non-travel pool powers. But that's still 3-5 (depending on if you're a City Traveler or if you would have used Ninja Run otherwise) powers you wouldn't have otherwise taken.
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It should stay as is. That way the people who really want to spend power picks on travel powers can stack the bonuses if they want to. |
Originally Posted by Texarkana
Seems like a more effective way to meet the spirit of the argument (restrict stacking of the bonuses using on "free" travel powers or additional travel power selections) is to impose a "law of 1" for universal travel power set bonuses and make the BotZ KB protection unique (if it isn't already). Or it could all just stay as is. I appreciate the responses.
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It's just to prevent people from getting ridiculous amounts of bonuses for essentially free.
Also, in PvP you need lots of KB protection if you're going to be competetive about it. BotZ has KB protection that is not unique. If you could slot them into the prestige sprints you could get 20 points of KB protection just by spending the inf on the enhancements, with no power picks or slots required. Understandably they want to limit players ability to do that, if you want that much KB protection, you need to spend the picks on it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Yeah, being able to have mag 20 KB protection on a squishy without the investment of a single power pick or a single added slot, or 15.65 ranged defense for five slots and no power picks (and the same in AoE for 5 more slots), would be a pretty major impact on a character's potential. In terms of IO'd defense, BotZ offers the most defense per slot of basically any set out there. This is compensated for by the fact that while BotZ is not unique, taking many different travel powers to slot it in generally reduces your character's effectiveness in other ways. If there was no opportunity cost to getting all of these amazing set bonuses, practically every veteran out there with the influence and/or merits/tickets to do so would throw a full suite of them in their prestige sprints.
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My secret wish is that in Power Customization 2.0, Sprint and the Prestige Sprints will all be folded into one power, with those custom looks unlocked by getting the upgrade or Veteran Badge.
Then we go back to having one power, and Universal Travel can be opened up in it again with no issues.
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That's...actually a pretty cool idea.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
My secret wish is that in Power Customization 2.0, Sprint and the Prestige Sprints will all be folded into one power, with those custom looks unlocked by getting the upgrade or Veteran Badge.
Then we go back to having one power, and Universal Travel can be opened up in it again with no issues. |
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It's a cool idea. However, there are two things I do with the power NOW that would not work THEN:
1) The option to change my sprint look on the fly. This is potentially one of the original design goals, so it would be a tricky change.
2) The option to have one sprint with a stealth slot and one with a runspeed slot, so I have "stealth sprint" and "hostage sprint" for free. This was not an original design goal of having custom sprints, and if they took it away I wouldn't really have any justification for complaining that my free fast stealth power went away... but I'd probably complain anyway.
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Also a good idea.
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Since they've as much as said that creating multiple Sprints was never the ideal solution, it was just something they did because it worked at the time, I don't feel they had any "design goals" other than making some shinies.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
It's a cool idea. However, there are two things I do with the power NOW that would not work THEN:
1) The option to change my sprint look on the fly. This is potentially one of the original design goals, so it would be a tricky change. 2) The option to have one sprint with a stealth slot and one with a runspeed slot, so I have "stealth sprint" and "hostage sprint" for free. This was not an original design goal of having custom sprints, and if they took it away I wouldn't really have any justification for complaining that my free fast stealth power went away... but I'd probably complain anyway. |
I occasionally fast switch my Sprints too, it's about the only good thing you can do with them in multiple powers like that. However I don't really think because we came up with a couple ways to make minor use of a poor design that is any reason to stop them from fixing an admitted error. Especially when fixing it would be granting something they had to take away.
After all, people complained when they removed UT from Sprint in the first place.
Like I said in another post today, the devs can't please everyone. In a world of please as many as you can, I think my idea is less upsetting than some others, or even maintaining status quo.
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I'll ad my 2 inf. I think its a great idea, but it could be abused, as anything in this game can be. 20 KB prot for free is game breaking, especially since you can get the 5 for readily used slots/power picks anyway. All of my flying toon (except stalker) have hover, CJ, and at least one of the TPs if not more. I can easiy get 4 sets on most toons without much trouble, and thats a nice little ranged/aoe def boost, especially for squishies.YMMV tho
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I would hate this, because I use the prestige sprints to have optional IO stealth without having to spend a power on it. I don't always want two minutes of stealth because I engage sprint, or Fly, or Hover, but I do very frequently want more stealth. The ability to fast switch to the Prestige Sprints is ideal for this purpose. I would not consider the ability to slot BotZ or WG in my actual sprint adequate compensation for losing that.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
My secret wish is that in Power Customization 2.0, Sprint and the Prestige Sprints will all be folded into one power, with those custom looks unlocked by getting the upgrade or Veteran Badge.
Then we go back to having one power, and Universal Travel can be opened up in it again with no issues. |
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Horrible idea, in my opinion. I have multiple toons with one sprint that they picked because they like the way it looks *AND* a second sprint with a stealth IO slotted. I don't want to automatically 'fade out' whenever I want to run faster.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
My secret wish is that in Power Customization 2.0, Sprint and the Prestige Sprints will all be folded into one power, with those custom looks unlocked by getting the upgrade or Veteran Badge.
Then we go back to having one power, and Universal Travel can be opened up in it again with no issues. |
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This... I have differently slotted sprints:|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Horrible idea, in my opinion. I have multiple toons with one sprint that they picked because they like the way it looks *AND* a second sprint with a stealth IO slotted. I don't want to automatically 'fade out' whenever I want to run faster.
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1 stealth
1 run
1 jump
Cos sometimes that little tiny bit is the difference between turning on the GvE jump or not.
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The Zephyrs are the big issue here. Winter's Gift is almost completely irrelevant in the equation. That is because all of the WG pieces are uniques, meaning only one per character.|
Originally Posted by Kierthos
Yeah, but unless you want/need a lot of Slow Resistance or Knockback protection, you'd have to spend some slots to get the set bonuses.
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So even if you could slot UT sets in the sprints, it would be impossible to get more than 20% slow resistance from the Winter's Gift piece, since you can only slot one, period.
And I am not sure if this is common knowledge or not, but there are non-travel powers that can take UT sets as well. Two that immediately come to mind are Accelerate Metabolism from Radiation Emission and Speed Boost from Kinetics. I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them at the moment.
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Elude from super reflexes. With the full set of Zephyrs in there it softcaps me. (and with ninja run, sprint, swift, quickness and a few set bonuses; I'm 6 mph short of the speedcap when I hit elude)
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Originally Posted by Willowpaw
The Zephyrs are the big issue here. Winter's Gift is almost completely irrelevant in the equation. That is because all of the WG pieces are uniques, meaning only one per character.
So even if you could slot UT sets in the sprints, it would be impossible to get more than 20% slow resistance from the Winter's Gift piece, since you can only slot one, period. And I am not sure if this is common knowledge or not, but there are non-travel powers that can take UT sets as well. Two that immediately come to mind are Accelerate Metabolism from Radiation Emission and Speed Boost from Kinetics. I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them at the moment. |
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Like the subject says, what's up with that? Why are the sprints and prestige power slide limited to running and jumping enh's only? I was hoping to slot Blessing of the Zephyr into power slide. Has this been discussed, is it an oversight, or is it perhaps an oversight that won't be reconsidered now to avoid indirect stacking with ninja run?
@Texarkana
@Thexder