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Originally Posted by SlimPickens
I think big picture-wise, most players would agree the respec system is no fun, yet unavoidable... |
Big Picture wise I agree entirely, I hate the actual respec process especially on a high level character.
I do disagree with the idea that retaining more than 10 is part of the issue here.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
It seems to me there was a big discussion amongst the devs as to whether to include repecs in the game in the first place.
Would I like to be able to keep my enhancements and dispose of them as I see fit? Sure.
I also want the monthly fee lowered, all the booster packs applied for free to each of my accounts and have a pony delivered to my house.
...I know.. I know... that's so silly.... sheesh.. free booster packs. 
Fact is, the economy of the game has inflated since players don't have to spend millions of influence/infamy every 5 levels to replace TO's/DO's/SO's that are past their expiration date.
As for streamlining the respec process.. sure.. maybe an option to only reslot enhancements, leaving the power selection step and the slot allocation step as per the original build...
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I actually wish they'd remove the ability to unslot enhancements during a respec.
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
I actually wish they'd remove the ability to unslot enhancements during a respec.
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I have to admit that a part of me agrees with this sentiment. Sure I use respecs now to pull off low level IO's for reuse on new characters instead of replacing them with high level IO's. Or I pull them when I decide to delete a character, but I really wouldn't miss it. It's just a convenience I take advantage of because it's allowed.
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Actually, it is... and I do remember reading it before IO's.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
It's not a dated mentality and it wasn't before IO's.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
You need to face it, the "potential loss" is INTENTIONAL. If you have 40 IO's tied up in one character so you use a respec then need to go buy 30 new ones, great! Working As Intended.
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Originally Posted by Thaumator
As I said, the stakes have been raised... and it's time you realized that. The fact that you cling to the archaic when this idea is something you could benefit from says something
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What stakes? The fact that some people think this is such a big deal when we are already making millions of inf hand over fist just convinces me more that the devs should remove the ability to use a respac to pull enhancements from a build entirely. It's a game. Get over it.
If 10 enhancements isn't 'worth' the 30-50 million or so for a respec recipe, they clearly aren't THAT valuable.
If they are, then pay that cost to free then up.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Been a while since you priced them I see.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
If 10 enhancements isn't 'worth' the 30-50 million or so for a respec recipe, they clearly aren't THAT valuable.
If they are, then pay that cost to free then up. |
Last I looked, they were over 100mil redside.
fwiw, I am satisfied w/ how things are
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Originally Posted by all_hell
Been a while since you priced them I see.
Last I looked, they were over 100mil redside. fwiw, I am satisfied w/ how things are |
He could have been looking at blueside prices.
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Blue side is about the same. 100mil+
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
He could have been looking at blueside prices.
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I've respecked IO'd-out builds before.
For the toons that had lower level IOs (in the 30s and 40s), there's only a handful of IOs worth more than a million... So, there's no problem there if I lose a few.
For the ones that were mostly level 50s, I looked up their worth at the market, and by the time I got the 11th most expensive IO, it was only worth a few million. So, again, for a power user like me... it was chump change to replace the ones that got deleted, while the Numinas and Gamblers were all nicely recovered. So, there's no problem there.
The only people I can see where the limit of 10 on IO recovery would be very expensive are the Purpled-out toons. And just how often is a Purple-out toon so completely respecked that more than two sets of Purples can't be reused in the new build? And if they really do need to do such a drastic rebuild (that can't be accomplished by using their second build), just how many times do they need to do it that a freespec and one of the earned respecs (of which there are at least 3 available to a level 50 toon) can't be used to pull out 20 Purples?
I think those complaining of losses are way overstating the problem.
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Thanks for checking. I don't keep track of market prices myself. But I do have one question tho.|
Originally Posted by SmegHead
Blue side is about the same. 100mil+
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Is 100+ million the standard rate they are going for, or is it the price some fool paid because he was impatient and couldn't wait a few days so he paid top dollar to get it "NAO!"?
Don't get me wrong tho, if they want it immediately then that's their choice.
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I don't know about blue side, but on red side price range of last 5 is 115-150M. And these prices were stable for last few months
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Thanks for checking. I don't keep track of market prices myself. But I do have one question tho.
Is 100+ million the standard rate they are going for, or is it the price some fool paid because he was impatient and couldn't wait a few days so he paid top dollar to get it "NAO!"? Don't get me wrong tho, if they want it immediately then that's their choice. |
The fact that there are billions of inf tied up in each of thousands of characters implies, sorta, that they created a slight oversupply of inf, don't you think?
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Didn't they say there was 300 billion floating around out there just after they gave us the market?
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
The fact that there are billions of inf tied up in each of thousands of characters implies, sorta, that they created a slight oversupply of inf, don't you think?
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And this is irrelevant because it was repeated AFTER IO's.|
Originally Posted by Thaumator
Actually, it is... and I do remember reading it before IO's.
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As I said, the stakes have been raised... and it's time you realized that. The fact that you cling to the archaic when this idea is something you could benefit from says something
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Yes, it does say something. It says that I can put the benefit of the game ahead of my own greed. I think that being able to pull all enhancements out would be worse for the GAME, irregardless of what it would mean for my wealth.
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The other point about being good for 'wealth' is inflation. Right now enhancements 'stuck' on characters not used much if at all is a massive influence sink. Suddenly freeing up that inf, even in the form of ready crafted items, has a strong inflationary effect.
You (generic you) may end up with more inf in absolute terms, but in terms of what that inf can buy at the market you could be worse off. Wealth is more than a raw number, as the Zimbabwe Dollar showed most dramatically.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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This.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I've respecked IO'd-out builds before.
For the toons that had lower level IOs (in the 30s and 40s), there's only a handful of IOs worth more than a million... So, there's no problem there if I lose a few. For the ones that were mostly level 50s, I looked up their worth at the market, and by the time I got the 11th most expensive IO, it was only worth a few million. So, again, for a power user like me... it was chump change to replace the ones that got deleted, while the Numinas and Gamblers were all nicely recovered. So, there's no problem there. The only people I can see where the limit of 10 on IO recovery would be very expensive are the Purpled-out toons. And just how often is a Purple-out toon so completely respecked that more than two sets of Purples can't be reused in the new build? And if they really do need to do such a drastic rebuild (that can't be accomplished by using their second build), just how many times do they need to do it that a freespec and one of the earned respecs (of which there are at least 3 available to a level 50 toon) can't be used to pull out 20 Purples? I think those complaining of losses are way overstating the problem. |
When I respec, given that I am keeping the same powersets (other than the ancillary or patron powersets, I rarely change what I want to enhance on a particular individual power - for example, I keep the PBAoE and I keep the Posi Blast set in that power.
I would like to see one of these builds that has so many powers that are being changed to the point that the IO sets already slotted will not accomplish the goals for the player in the new build. I don't have a build that needs 5 respecs to pull out IOs, but I sure would like to see one for once.
So until I see examples, I agree with Zombie Man that folks are overstating the problem.
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Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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I've been thinking about this with regard to my invention sets on which I've spent 10s of millions and would like this as well. My current build is almost completely sets, expensive, higher end sets. I want to do a dramatic respec of which many of the sets just don't apply to the powers and won't fit into 10 inventory slots. The only other choice I have is to do a staggered rebuild using two respec's which sucks.
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Originally Posted by MLEdelen
There has to be a way for the devs to make it where we can keep the extra enhancements we spent influ on and sell them on wentworths for a chance at getting our influ back after we respec. I mean, only being able to save 10 enh to sell our of some of us 20-30? Lets find a way to keep them and put the used enhancements back in the market instead of letting them just disappear.
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I really think this is entirely backward.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
The other point about being good for 'wealth' is inflation. Right now enhancements 'stuck' on characters not used much if at all is a massive influence sink. Suddenly freeing up that inf, even in the form of ready crafted items, has a strong inflationary effect.
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Freeing up more enhancements to be sold on the market would lower prices as it would increase supply. It would lower demand as well as people could re-use inventions instead of having to buy them again. It would be the *opposite* of inflationary.
Now, making a pay to release service that people could pay 10 million to unslot an enhancement - or something like that - THAT would be an inf sink, and reduce inflation.
On the other hand, you need a balance. Items have to be 'used up' or you get deflationary spirals where as supply increases, but no items ever leave circulation, the price slowly lowers. This creates what is known in MMO analytical circles as "mudflation" where characters are more powerful than they used to be, since previously unaffordable items are now cheap enough for low levels to get, making older content no longer worth doing as it's too easy and the items aren't worth it.
CoH has always done a great job preventing "mudflation" and maybe that's what you were thinking of - but in many ways "mudflation" is the *opposite* of inflation. (Purely coincidence, but I just noticed how inflation conveniently beginning with "inf" making it clearly refers to currency inflation!)
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No, they didn't. They said that there was about 3 TRILLION.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Didn't they say there was 300 billion floating around out there just after they gave us the market?
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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While allowing you to unslot all 50 enhancements would mudflate the costs of low and mid range stuff I think it would actually inflate the costs of higher end items. Being able to respec all enhancements out of retired characters would mean that some percentage of the population suddenly stop needing to buy any of the more common set enhancements which means that they can now spend a larger percentage of their liquid wealth on high end purples and PvPIOs upping the cost considerably. The price of HOs though would probably drop dramatically since I'm sure there are plenty of people with pre-I9 HO'd characters who could flood the market.
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Originally Posted by Retrogression
I really think this is entirely backward.
Freeing up more enhancements to be sold on the market would lower prices as it would increase supply. It would lower demand as well as people could re-use inventions instead of having to buy them again. It would be the *opposite* of inflationary. Now, making a pay to release service that people could pay 10 million to unslot an enhancement - or something like that - THAT would be an inf sink, and reduce inflation. On the other hand, you need a balance. Items have to be 'used up' or you get deflationary spirals where as supply increases, but no items ever leave circulation, the price slowly lowers. This creates what is known in MMO analytical circles as "mudflation" where characters are more powerful than they used to be, since previously unaffordable items are now cheap enough for low levels to get, making older content no longer worth doing as it's too easy and the items aren't worth it. CoH has always done a great job preventing "mudflation" and maybe that's what you were thinking of - but in many ways "mudflation" is the *opposite* of inflation. (Purely coincidence, but I just noticed how inflation conveniently beginning with "inf" making it clearly refers to currency inflation!) |
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Thank you. I knew it was three something, but couldn't remember how high.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
No, they didn't. They said that there was about 3 TRILLION.
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Yup. And that was before anyone had any real incentive to farm up influence. I remember 100 million being a crazy, ridiculous amount of inf. I had a friend with 100 million inf partly because he had gotten on a lot of really, really bad teams on his way to 50 with his tank. He'd run the respec trial [when it was new] twelve times before he beat it. That's a lot of debt. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Thank you. I knew it was three something, but couldn't remember how high.
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And then he tanked a lot more when he got to 50.
It would not surprise me to find out that there was, cash inf, three HUNDRED trillion inf in the system right now. My guess would be on the order of thirty trillion but I could be off by a factor of 10 very easily.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
You need to face it, the "potential loss" is INTENTIONAL. If you have 40 IO's tied up in one character so you use a respec then need to go buy 30 new ones, great! Working As Intended.
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