Reflection

No, not an ultra-mode GR post.

I've been critical of the VEATs for some time - rather vocally. Not as a HEAT vs VEAT thing or whatever, I just had this overwhelming dislike as I played through them.

Well, I went through something similar with MMs quite some time ago, and having not played my VEATs for a bit and getting some distance, wanted to really see *why* I have such a harsh reaction to them. (Especially in light of finally having a crab past the branch point and enjoying it.) Not least since I went back to work on my Bane some more, finishing Scirocco's two arcs (40-45) and wasn't all that put off by the character.

From what I'm seeing, it's two things.

1. The lvl 24 respec. It, to me, feels like having to unlock the VEAT twice - once overall by getting a vill to 50, and then once again at 24 for each VEAT. I still think this should have come earlier, but - in all honesty, I can live with it. So this isn't a major consideration, just a personal, and minor, mechanical dislike. Not enough to really make me have the reaction I've had to the VEAT. Which brings me to the other one -

2. The storyline. I admit fully to being a lore-*****. I enjoy storylines, I enjoy digging into backstory - and not just with COH. Hell, it's part of why I like DA, of all zones -so much story *potential* there. But I remember hitting 30 on my Widow (I think it was 30, at least,) hitting the 1-2 mission story point, and having my reaction be "WTH?" Coming on the boards and seeing "Yeah, the next one's like that, too, and then there's a one mission one" was a huge letdown. I've said before - I was disappointed enough I nearly deleted that character then and there. (And let's not get into the rather... *forced* statesman fight. If it'd end with Kalinda's speech, I'd think it'd make a perfect ending to it.)

As I'm looking over my playing of the various VEATs, I realized that second - the disappointment in the "epic" (story-bound) part of EAT - had seriously tainted my enjoyment of the ATs as a whole. Now, yes, my Bane still feels squishy to me more often than I'd like, my Widow took several respecs to come to a point I was reasonably happy with her capabilities, but Khelds took a bit to work through as well and I love playing those, never having the same reaction (even with full strength Voids.)

"So what," you might ask - eh, valid. Just personally interesting to me, thinking I've found out just why I've been so *unhappy* with the VEATs. Going to finish my Bane's run (41-50) and work up the crab (25 still) with just ignoring the VEAT arcs completely and seeing if it changes my attitude toward the ATs themselves on a mechanical and just "fun to play" basis. I'm sure the "I'm skipping the storyline" will still be in the back of my mind, but I'm curious (more than anything) to see if I find the ATs themselves actually fun without that affecting it quite so much.

See my Guides and Tutorials

I usually don't care much about the lore. I do know enough of it to help me enjoy the game's story. But I don't go around digging it.

That being said, even -I- noticed the incredible "lightness" of the story behind VEATs. I think they have a lot of room for some epic stories, and yet there is so little pure, VEAT-related story arcs.

I like the EATs especially the ability to play two characters in one with the dual builds, but the Arachnos storyline is lacking in any level of contact.

I can deal with the lightness of the story arcs, but the worst part for me was a single mission.
"Hey, dude." my contact addresses me. "Go beat up Statesman for lulz."
"Really? Okay, any reason other than just because?"
"Nope. Just 'cus. He'll be in AP by the statue. I told him that you said he stunk like rotten potatoes and would meet him there after school."
"Um.....okay." I whipped both my Patron and Recluse, solo, so how bad could this be?
*Epic and repeated booty-kickings for me and two teammates.*
(Solved by teammate grabbing a L50 (mission was mid-40's) and having them take care of it. I couldn't even drop mission.)


Gee, thanks for reminding me that no matter what I do, I'm still nothing compared to a canon character at full power.
And it was just for the lulz of my contact. No story behind it, no nothing. Not even a badge, IIRC.

The Kheld stories I have enjoyed much more than the Kheld characters. So far, my Fort/Widow doesn't feel significantly different than a Stalker/blaster depending on which build she is in. And my Crab/Bane doesn't play significantly different than a blaster. Sure the hp is nice and the awesome Tactics. But the real powers are the same-old same-old. The story I was very sad about how wimpy it was. The story is 60% of what I play for.

I do have to admit that knowing it is a "beat up statesman just for Lulz" actually appeals to me. I can't honestly think of a BETTER reason to give him the beat down.

the only thing i dislike about VEATs is the forced respec being so late, when i made my VEATs, i basically just had them PL'd to 24 because i knew whatever power choices i had were prolly gonna get scrapped and it was a forced respec so you had no choice to go in and do it

I made my own story arc.
I really should get around to putting that on the AE at some point.

But yeah, it is a bit bothersome to have to choose your branch at 24.
I guess they had to do it that way because of the crab-legs or some other mechanical purpose?

I really enjoy the respec at 24. I enjoy being a generic SoA until the moment of specialisation.

Although since they're unlocking VEATs at 20, it does seem a bit daft that you'd have to play one to 24 before "unlocking" the VEAT as a Bane/Crab or Night/Fortuna.

I don't really pay attention to the storylines because I usually find them pretty weak, so I only knew there was something to dislike because of the complaints of other players. I'd like for there to be a stronger story for VEATs, but that's close to a universal problem in my eyes.

I dont understand how OP couldnt solo statesman....

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler you *******!!!!

Playing a VEAT, I feel like I'm serving their storyline, rather than enjoying it. Designing an AT around being a minion of someone else (even a disloyal one) seems limiting and shortsighted.

Anyone remember the text on the plaque near the King's Row Hospital? The one with the self-serving drivel about Statesman being so heroic? It made me nauseous how much it pointed towards the Dev's characters. The VEATs make me feel a little like that. Like my story is a lot less important than their awesome awesomeness of awesome that they've designed.

I want to be a part of my own story, not a part of a story about someone that the Devs think is cooler. Frankly, I lost interest in playing through the VEAT storylines before I finished...and that's nearly unheard of for me.

The mechanics of the AT are fine. I think they're great, capable characters. It's the idea that I'm either a Spiderflunky or a rebellious Spiderflunky that bothers me so much, I guess.

This is coming from someone who also totally refuses to use the Patron Powers in any respect...so you can me being stubborn, pig-headed into account when reading that.

Oh, and things I do like about the characters:

-The second costume at 10. This is counterbalanced by how much I -loathe- having to dress up as a widow or soldier until then, though. (*Throws costume salvage onto new VEATs as soon as possible*) Wish I could have a not-stupid-looking gun, too.

-Flexibility. I love having two alternate builds and having them play out so differently. My Night Widow/Fort can be an incredible team player, or a very competent soloist. Being able to flip between paths gives me a lot of interesting buiold options that a regular AT doesn't have.

I like the Soldier armor. Granted, male Widows look terrible and don't even get the signature Widow buttcape because males and giants aren't even supposed to be Widows in the first place but gender equality demanded they not lock you into a gender in addition to locking you into an origin...

The finale mission with Statesman was pretty bad. I seem to remember you bust in when States is giving a speech like, "HEY GUYS DOCTOR BRAINSTORM IS PROLIFERATING POWERS; OH, EXCEPT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HAPPENED LIKE OVER A YEAR AGO EVEN THOUGH I SPEAK OF THIS STUNNING NEW DEVELOPMENT IN THE FUTURE TENSE." That mission needs yanked out, and it needs yanked out bad. Maybe it could be tied into Praetoria. You decide, "hey if I can't conquer this world without bringing the end of all life then maybe I could go conquer Praetoria. I know, I'll go beat Emperor Cole and sit in his giant golden throne!"

For me, VEATs are just another group of fun powersets that you unlock once you get an existing character to 50. I write my own character backstories for each of my alts, so the in-game storyline is nice, but unneccesary.

My Bane is lvl 45 and really a lot of fun to play. I just started a Night Widow this weekend, and I'm enjoying her so far.

Having finally gotten into a Warshade, I admit that VEATs get heavily shortchanged on story content, now.
What'd be better than having to stick to the whole damn 'Destined' shctick is to actually be a loyalist. Y'know, beating the snot out of street thugs and rogues, before moving up to taking on the actual big boys in the Isles, right the way up to laying the smack down on his Lordships 'wonderboy' Destined rats. Maybe even all the way up to Commander, or Arbiter. That'd be cool.

I still love the AT. While not the morphable doomball that my WS is, my Crab is still a walking warmachine, and doesn't rely quite as much on a team. When he does have a team, though, he's a solid part of it. If that team happens to be nearly all VEATs...bwuahaha..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Maybe it's just me, but I really enjoyed the "grunt" feel of the first 24 levels *including* the semi-forced uniform. Caveat: I teamed mostly with other veats. When you're the only veat on a team it's BLEH. But get 2-3+ and the uniformity was... inspiring (?) for me I guess. Plus, the levels went insanely fast, so 24 wasn't an issue in the least.

This was more true of the soldier branch than the widow one, but not horribly so.

I agree that having to respec instead of starting as a Bane/Crab/Fort/NW is useless from certains PoV.

Take my Bane for example.

I start as a ranged Wolfspider where the only melee attack is Pummel (lvl 1) then Bayonet (lvl 12).
Wolfspiders are 90% Ranged toons.
I get to 24 then respec into my Melee Bane - my previous 24 levels of playstyle is now out the window as ive gone from a ranged toon to a melee toon.
Now some may say "you dont HAVE to be a melee bane" but thats not the point. I want to be Melee based. Its not like im making the AT be someting its not meant to be (ie: Corr beign a Tank).

If the process was changed so at level 1 you choose the branch you want they will still need to offer the "Arachnos Soldier:" and "Training and Gadgets" powersets along with the "Bane" or "Crab powersets.
To clarify by chooing Bane I get access to the following powersets:
"Arachnos Soldier"
"Bane Spider Soldier"
"Training and Gadgets"
"Bane Spider Training"

This would need to limit the dual-build/respecs also rechosing the Bane powers - I cant respec/dual-build from Bane to Crab. Unless the Dev Team wants this to be an added benefit of the VEAT - respec/dual build allows you to chose a different Branch of the same AT.

Thoughts?

Well, Kheldians you don't really have the "big picture" until you unlock Dwarf Form at 20, so to me switching to Crab/Bane/Night Widow/Fortunata at 24 made perfect sense. Maybe it could have been 20 instead, but I think even as low as 16 wouldn't really do it.

Plus there's the fact that with two builds you can do a lesser version of the Kheldian thing and switch between them. Well, you're stuck with the backpack, but you can switch.

I'm still trying to figure out why SoA get Patron Powers and not additional powers in the Primary/Secondary. Although I guess they've got to have some reward for the Patron Arcs.