Of your 50s the Rad/Rad would be my preference on all of those, nothing makes a tough enemy melt like a Rad and it has decent mitigation to boot. I might ask for the FF/Elec if I had a defender/blaster heavy team. Empathy is not a great set for most TFs, it's ok but it's niche is low levels where healing is better than buffs (say <25) or on small teams (4-5 members) where you can keep Fortitude on most of the team.
I can't really comment on the Sonic/Sonic. They're very rare so I've never really gotten a fair assessment of how they work on a team. They've got mitigation and -Res though so it should help.
Cold/Ice I'd consider superior to the FF/Elec. The overall defense isn't quite as good, but for the most part it'll be good enough and unlike FF it has some -Def and -Res for help with the AVs.
Of the below Task Forces, which Defender would you be inclined to use or invite to your Task Force team, and why:
Imperious Task Force
8 Rad/rads 
. Whatever, take a LOT of defenders. EMP Pulse with Howling Twilight first strikes help a lot.
Katie Hannon Task Force
Storm! Fight fire with fire. Really Snowstorm grounds the witches and gets them in melee range of your scrappers.
Lady Grey Task Force
Pure defense - you need a FF/* If you want to feed your need for total chaos, take a stormer. Plenty of opportunity to cut loose.
Dr. Khan Task Force
I was on a team with only a FF/psy Son/son and Storm/? We ruled that TF. I highly endorse shielders/ringers for this TF.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
I'd invite any to any because in theory it's possible to get them done and I am a snob. To get choosy would be n00blike of me - Nah it's not so much that it's just because I think players can make a difference and I like to invite the chance for doing things with a less than the popular ideal of a team make up.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
This is an interesting question for me because I have run FF through all of these, and I've run Rad through most of 'em. So I don't think "Who would I invite", I think "who would I bring". I can't talk much about cold/ice because I don't have the experience with it. But I have a decent amount of experience with, if not the exact combo (I do have FF/Elec as it happens) all the other secondaries and all the primaries mentioned.
For Katie? I would vote Force Fields. FF is the set that, when stuff goes wrong, people still don't die. Rad , yeah, you can take down Mary guaranteed. But defensively, Rad won't hit all the witches and when everyone's getting bounced, stunned, debuffed, and abused... Rad may not keep the toggles up.
FF is idiotproof and Mary's little clique makes everyone act like an idiot.
Lady Grey, I tend to think you can do with any of the above. At Lady Grey level you're going to have a team that can take care of itself, and beat the tough things, and work with whatever you bring. (And statistically you're going to have at least one fire/kin.) Personal taste. Sonic/Sonic has a couple significant advantages- practically nobody brings +Res, and half of everyone has capped Def, and you bring the other half of "I can stand here until you run out of bullets. " Your team's outbound damage goes through the roof against tough targets; something like -70% Resist is barely trying. Sonic/Sonic is a very good SECOND defender/controller. Sonic and Force Fields, Sonic and Rad, Sonic and Dark, Emp, anything you can think of makes your team indestructible and incredibly hard-hitting. Sonic by itself... not quite.
For Dr. Khan, I haven't done it enough to make solid judgements. I think rad/rad or sonic/sonic, because you need to pour on the -res to get your damage up.
One thing where my prejudices probably show is that I wouldn't bring the Empath to any of those. A lot of that is early training- I've got a 3.5 minute timer in my head and when that goes off, I want to rebubble EVERYONE. Empathy has things on a bunch of different timers, and you're hitting this person with Clear Mind and that person with Fortitude, and everyone's so NEEDY all the time. Also, people thank Empaths when they die and get rezzed. As far as I'm concerned, that's an abusive relationship. When I play Force Fields, and someone's health drops to the halfway point, they're in some sort of severe trouble and I check to see what's going on. Empathy, people drop to half health like it's no big thing.
Empathy has some really good moves. Psi has solid damage and a startling amount of mitigation. (You can stack up those psychic screams and enemies don't get to shoot back until judgement day. ) It's probably a very good combination. It's just not something I'd ever think to bring to a TF.
Edit: New Dawn- I know exactly what you're saying. I kind of make a point of bringing "the first seven people that say yes." I've only gotten bit by it once, and that was a Manticore where we had some odd combo (one scrapper, no other melee maybe?) and I didn't go through and explain how I thought we should play it. We teamwiped in the third room and half the team bailed.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Oh definitely, I'm way to lazy to actually go out and look for specific defender powersets when making a TF, it's more fun to just grab whomever wants to come. Although if I can't fill the team through globals and have to resort to the search function, well I'm going to try asking the Rad/Rad or FF/Elec defenders before the Emp/Psi (of course this assumes that they all have their powersets as their search comment).
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I'd invite any to any because in theory it's possible to get them done and I am a snob. To get choosy would be n00blike of me - Nah it's not so much that it's just because I think players can make a difference and I like to invite the chance for doing things with a less than the popular ideal of a team make up.
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I'll echo prior sentiments that any are fine, but I'll point out a couple of specific advantages some have.
On Katie, one of FFs bubbles has end drain resistance, very noteworthy for that tf. Also, with Cold you can cast Sleet on the spawn point before they appear, a useful trick. It will be up for every ambush, unlike Liquefy from Sonic.
As for the other TFs, whatevah. Personally, with the stable of defenders you mentioned, I'd ask the question "does the team have +Def buffs?" If not, I'd bring the Cold, if yes, I'd bring the Sonic.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
You have to know how to be able to do any TF extremely well in practically any team mix before you can tell others that your knowledgeable. Getting through an STF behind a Stonetank, with a Rad, Kin, FFer and Cold just says you need to know how to hit things.
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Cold/ice is a better AV killer than Rad/Rad could hope to be. Cold has more -res and more -dmg and comparable -regen while Ice has much better ST dmg along with descent AoE.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Of your 50s the Rad/Rad would be my preference on all of those, nothing makes a tough enemy melt like a Rad and it has decent mitigation to boot. I might ask for the FF/Elec if I had a defender/blaster heavy team. Empathy is not a great set for most TFs, it's ok but it's niche is low levels where healing is better than buffs (say <25) or on small teams (4-5 members) where you can keep Fortitude on most of the team.
I can't really comment on the Sonic/Sonic. They're very rare so I've never really gotten a fair assessment of how they work on a team. They've got mitigation and -Res though so it should help. Cold/Ice I'd consider superior to the FF/Elec. The overall defense isn't quite as good, but for the most part it'll be good enough and unlike FF it has some -Def and -Res for help with the AVs. |
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
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Cold only has more -Res while Heat Loss is up, whereas Rad has +Dmg through AM so overall I'd consider the two to be about the same on that front (people tend to faff around for long enough before the AV that AM has time to recharge). I agree that mitigation is better for Cold, but how useful that is depends a lot on your team makeup. If you've already got someone who can tank the AV or you've got a FF on the team then you don't need the mitigation.|
Originally Posted by Brynstar
Cold/ice is a better AV killer than Rad/Rad could hope to be. Cold has more -res and more -dmg and comparable -regen while Ice has much better ST dmg along with descent AoE.
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Cold/Ice might be a bit better for the AV (although personally I'd rate them about the same), but in general Rad/Rad will make the rest of the TF go faster.
Finally as a note, I don't really pay attention to a Defenders Secondary when building teams. I expect them to have one and I expect them to use the attacks but for the most part their Primary has a larger impact on the overall team capability than their Secondary.
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the +dmg from AM isn't nearly as effective as the -res from heat loss. if you have an attack that does 100 base dmg and another 100 from enhancements for 200 dmg total, AM will make the attack do 25 extra dmg while Heat loss will make it do 60 extra dmg. More than double. Not to mention that the extra -res makes colds already larger -dmg even more effective.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Cold only has more -Res while Heat Loss is up, whereas Rad has +Dmg through AM so overall I'd consider the two to be about the same on that front (people tend to faff around for long enough before the AV that AM has time to recharge). I agree that mitigation is better for Cold, but how useful that is depends a lot on your team makeup. If you've already got someone who can tank the AV or you've got a FF on the team then you don't need the mitigation.
Cold/Ice might be a bit better for the AV (although personally I'd rate them about the same), but in general Rad/Rad will make the rest of the TF go faster. Finally as a note, I don't really pay attention to a Defenders Secondary when building teams. I expect them to have one and I expect them to use the attacks but for the most part their Primary has a larger impact on the overall team capability than their Secondary. |
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
My two 'goto' defenders for any TF are my rad/rad (Still almost a purely SO build), and my son/son.
My cold/psi is getting up there and may become a staple for me as well.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
All of them on a team together with 3 more defenders.
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All of the effects from cold takes more recharge to perma. |
Originally Posted by Brynstar
Cold/ice is a better AV killer than Rad/Rad could hope to be. Cold has more -res and more -dmg and comparable -regen while Ice has much better ST dmg along with descent AoE.
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And BlueBattler go with the one that you feel most comfortable playing with.
All 5 of your defenders have stuff that are good on a team.
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As others have noted, you survive the boss room better with Rad/Rad over Cold/* due to the AoE anchor of Enervating Field (and other AoEs) hitting so many in the party. If you have the endurance up and it's a long fight I wonder if EF outperforms benumb and heat loss over time since it 'stays' while the cold clicks recharges base rate 120 sec. Oh and last I check, enervating field doesn't miss.|
Originally Posted by Brynstar
Cold/ice is a better AV killer than Rad/Rad could hope to be. Cold has more -res and more -dmg and comparable -regen while Ice has much better ST dmg along with descent AoE.
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Nothing out-perforns Rad/Rad on -regen. 1000% debuff (15 sec duration, 300 sec base recharge) from EM Pulse and Lingering Rad which recharges on a base rate of 90 seconds with a 30 second duration of -500% Regen.
Having said that... I would NEVER deny a Cold a spot on my team for a TaskForce. I would sooner kick a blaster
.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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1000% pretty much shuts down regen completly which traps can do with no penalties and a 40 second duration :V|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
Nothing out-perforns Rad/Rad on -regen. 1000% debuff (15 sec duration, 300 sec base recharge) from EM Pulse and Lingering Rad which recharges on a base rate of 90 seconds with a 30 second duration of -500% Regen. |
I admit that lingering has an advantage during 5TF though. Keeping the -regen on reichsman while you deal with the other Av´s in the room.
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Touche, I forgot about the new kid. Thanks for the update.
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Originally Posted by TRTerror
1000% pretty much shuts down regen completly which traps can do with no penalties and a 40 second duration :V
I admit that lingering has an advantage during 5TF though. Keeping the -regen on reichsman while you deal with the other Av´s in the room. |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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Originally Posted by TRTerror
All of them on a team together with 3 more defenders.
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This. Or ONE FF Defender and the rest of the team filled with Blasters and Scrappers.
These selections are tentative. Neither is really superior to the other, being entirely dependent on the team's layout to determine which is more appropriate. That said, these are my views...
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FF/Elec| Imperious Task Force |
Giving people potential immunity from a multitude of bad decisions makes the ITF go far smoother. The Romans aren't particularly hard to kill, they happen to hit hard though and that can make people skittish and overall, slow.
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| Katie Hannon Task Force |
Survival isn't exactly a key problem with this TF (and if it is, you've got other problems). The only part that takes any time is 10xMary and Radiation will be more useful to cut down the time wasted on her.
That said, the endurance drain protection can be an absolute godsend against Mary, so you may want to put that into consideration.
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| Lady Grey Task Force |
Depends entirely on the team layout. Debuff-heavy already? Get the FF and apply the same logic from the ITF scenario. Having endurance drain resistance is pretty nice for squishier melee toons when dealing with Famine. Buff-heavy? Go Radiation to help make the threats into a joke. Again, just depends on the need.
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| Dr. Khan Task Force |
The complaints I tend to log on global channels about this TF and the villain variant are typically related to people having issues surviving the ambushes. Force Bubble and creative positioning can go a long way towards alleviating that problem, not to forgot the defense you're also providing. Reichsman has an assload of health but he isn't particularly hard to take down, it just takes time and as people possibly get bored/sloppy, they might be better off with the extra help from FF.
As for the Empath... I won't go into the how or why of my thoughts regarding that set.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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Actually that is false, a Cold with minor global recharge and/or Hasten can double stack sleet for a duration, which doubles the -res compared to rad, and when Heat Loss is up, it triples compared to rad (which then makes the -dmg even better)|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Cold only has more -Res while Heat Loss is up
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Also while Benumb isnt perma without massive global recharge, it has -special, which would completely destroy the special effects of any of those annoying AVs. (especially with PBU)
Cold/sonic for -res stacking <3
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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When I'm forming a TF I put out a generic "looking for buff/debuff" call. For the most part I will snatch up any available defender/controller/corr without prejudice. In spite of the hundreds of pages of forum debate over over which of those ATs and powersets is the "best" any of them can be plugged into the role and get the job done as long as the player can make good use of the tools in their set.|
Originally Posted by BlueBattler
I have the following Defenders right now on different servers:
Empath/Psi Rad/Rad Force field/Electricity - all level 50. Sonic/Sonic- 38 or so. Cold/Ice - Level 32. I tend to run Scrappers and Controllers more than my Defenders as I solo a lot. On the other hand, I really enjoy doing Task Forces.  Of the below Task Forces, which Defender would you be inclined to use or invite to your Task Force team, and why: Imperious Task Force Katie Hannon Task Force Lady Grey Task Force Dr. Khan Task Force |
That said...
ITF/Dr K - I want at least one good debuff set to ensure the finale goes smoothly. If I don't already have a debuffer I'd take Rad or Cold out of the choices you offered. Otherwise, any of them is fine.
LGTF/Katie - Doesn't matter. The team will easily overpower the AVs on LGTF and you can make most combos work on Katie, the rest of the stuff is no particular challenge. Players knowing the ropes counts far more than the particular power sets on these two.
I'd likely take the Cold/Ice first for all the TF's mentioned.
Katie : - Fly in snow storm to keep the witches grounded. Strongest -Res for AV's double stacked Sleet and heat loss when its up. Defense and Resists to Energy Damage. Lots of -defense to deal with hurricanes. Special in Benumb I think effects the strength of hurricane (weakening it)
Heatloss will solve any end drain problems you might be having. Bonus points for a high recharge exemp build.
ITF : - Defense nice for hitting foes when they bunch up (And get Phalanx Fighting). +Defense really nice for the squishies and can definitely help melee even if there is no DDR. The Energy Resists mixed with the defense come in handy with mission 2. Benumb on the EB's and on the healing nictus at the end is great. Again strongest consistent -Res is great. Frostwork on the melee folks who aren't HP caps makes them a good bit tougher against all those heavy attacks they are facing all the time. With a ranged defense build and snow storm you can pretty much control a fight.
Lady Grey - I might actually take the Emp. If Fort/CM are used liberally. The +Regen in Regen Aura and AB make Hami a breeze. I'd hope for debuffs from someone else, but a well played emp there really makes life easy on the squishes with no Mez, and the melee who has to deal with all the end drain and untyped damage.
Khan - Take the cold again. Strongest - Res for the big sack of HP that is the final AV.
Minor footnote: The only one of those TFs the lvl 32 cold can actually go on is katie.
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You deal with reichsman first, and all other AVs in the room go down either as colateral or after reichsman was defeated.
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Originally Posted by TRTerror
1000% pretty much shuts down regen completly which traps can do with no penalties and a 40 second duration :V
I admit that lingering has an advantage during 5TF though. Keeping the -regen on reichsman while you deal with the other Av´s in the room. |
I´ve done it 2 times, second was an mo run where you really dont want to risk planting. Having ranged -regen is pretty sweet in those situations.
I have the following Defenders right now on different servers:
Empath/Psi
Rad/Rad
Force field/Electricity
- all level 50.
Sonic/Sonic- 38 or so.
Cold/Ice - Level 32.
I tend to run Scrappers and Controllers more than my Defenders as I solo a lot.
On the other hand, I really enjoy doing Task Forces.
Of the below Task Forces, which Defender would you be inclined to use or invite to your Task Force team, and why:
Imperious Task Force
Katie Hannon Task Force
Lady Grey Task Force
Dr. Khan Task Force
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