Quote:
I don't think that's actually what he meant.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
I think you mean to say that it's my perception that's the issue. If so, I think I agree. Many points have been made that I hadn't considered.
|
I think he meant that YOUR tank has these issues and HIS does not.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
I was trying to put a charitable spin on it. I try not to look at these things personally (ie I prefer to believe he isn't saying, in essence, "You suck!").|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
I don't think that's actually what he meant.
I think he meant that YOUR tank has these issues and HIS does not. |
The way I took his meaning is that I'm perceiving a problem where there is none, which is entirely possible.
As for why these kinds of threads pop up, I think it has to do with exactly that; perception. That is, we have a conception in our minds of what a comic book tank is like, and we become discombobulated when out characters don't behave that way. I mean, can you see Thor being oneshotted by ANY villain (short of the celestial-types). Comic tanks go toe to to with the big guns and generally last a good long time. While that does happen in CoH, there are times that we get chewed up almost instantly, and that makes us (well, ME anyway) question the game.
Ok, here's the build as I'm playing it now. As I say, he's L44 and only just got Laser Eyes. All the defensive powers are fully slotted, and KO Blow is fully slotted. The other attacks are almost fully slotted, but that's kind of beside the point of the thread.
I've been tinkering with it to see if I can't get Tough Hide earlier (I think L30 is likely where it would end up...), and I've toyed with dropping Haymaker in favour of something else, so that might free up space to get Tough Hide earlier too.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Canadian Shield: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(3), ResDam-I(3), ResDam-I(5)
Level 1: Jab -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(5), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(9)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(9), Heal-I(11)
Level 4: Haymaker -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(11), Dmg-I(13), Dmg-I(13), Dmg-I(15)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(15), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(19)
Level 8: Unyielding -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(19), ResDam-I(21), ResDam-I(21)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(23), ResDam-I(23)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A), Flight-I(25), Flight-I(25)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(27), Heal-I(27)
Level 18: Invincibility -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(29), ToHit-I(29), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(33), EndMod-I(33)
Level 22: Knockout Blow -- RechRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(33), Acc-I(34), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(36)
Level 24: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(36), ResDam-I(36)
Level 26: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(37), ResDam-I(37)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 30: Hand Clap -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39), Dsrnt-I(39), Dsrnt-I(46), Dsrnt-I(50)
Level 32: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Hurl -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(39), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(40)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- RechRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42), Acc-I(42), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(46)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Acc-I(A), DefDeb-I(45), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(46)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I(A), EndMod-I(48), EndMod-I(48), EndMod-I(48)
Level 49: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(50), DefBuff-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
3rechg 3 heal of Dullpain is one thing you didnt do unlike most anybody else and the second thing is that you didn't pick up tough hide asap. Hand clap well, invincible likes enemies close to you, what's going on exactly, do you have attacking enemies close to you?
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
Yes, that's Also true.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
The way I took his meaning is that I'm perceiving a problem where there is none, which is entirely possible.
|
Quote:
| can you see Thor being oneshotted by ANY villain (short of the celestial-types). |
Quote:
| Comic tanks go toe to to with the big guns and generally last a good long time. While that does happen in CoH, there are times that we get chewed up almost instantly, and that makes us (well, ME anyway) question the game. |
Against an enemy that uses mainly smashing/lethal damage he should be able to go for quite a while without US.
I agree with New Dawn that you need Recharge slotting in Dull Pain and that Tough Hide earlier would be wise.
Maybe more Recharge in Unstoppable too.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Need more recharge in Dull Pain. End reductions in toggles are not as efficient as a 2nd end reduction in some attacks (and with Stamina and PP and CP, I can't imagine you even need all that much end reduction in attacks, so once you get PP, you may want to swap out an end reduction for another recharge in some attacks).
Tough Hide is vastly more important and effective than Resist Elements, thus it should be taken right away. Hand Clap is fine with just two Accuracies, but I left 2 disorient durations in for flavor (they could probably find a better home elsewhere). You would probably be more effective dropping Hand Clap for Hasten, but Hand Clap is a lot of fun, IMO, so you may find it hard to drop.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Canadian Shield: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(3), ResDam-I:50(3)
Level 1: Jab -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(5), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(9)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(9), RechRdx-I:50(11), Heal-I:50(21), Heal-I:50(31), Heal-I:50(31)
Level 4: Haymaker -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(5), Acc-I:50(11), Dmg-I:50(13), Dmg-I:50(13), Dmg-I:50(15)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(15), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(19), EndRdx-I:50(50)
Level 8: Unyielding -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(19), ResDam-I:50(21)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 12: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(23), ResDam-I:50(23)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I:50(A), Flight-I:50(25), Flight-I:50(25)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(27), Heal-I:50(27)
Level 18: Invincibility -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(29), DefBuff-I:50(29), ToHit-I:50(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(33), EndMod-I:50(33)
Level 22: Knockout Blow -- RechRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(33), Acc-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(36)
Level 24: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(36), ResDam-I:50(36)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(37), DefBuff-I:50(37)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(37), RechRdx-I:50(50)
Level 30: Hand Clap -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(39), Dsrnt-I:50(39), Dsrnt-I:50(46)
Level 32: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 35: Hurl -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(39), Dmg-I:50(40), Dmg-I:50(40), Dmg-I:50(40)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- RechRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(42), Acc-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(43), Dmg-I:50(46)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Acc-I:50(A), DefDeb-I:50(45), Dmg-I:50(45), Dmg-I:50(45), Dmg-I:50(46), EndRdx-I:50(50)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(48), EndMod-I:50(48), EndMod-I:50(48)
Level 49: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I:50(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Code:
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
My unscientific impression is that mixed defenses are better than pure resistance or pure defense. Pure defense is subject to cascade failures in the face of -def debuffs: if one hits, more will hit, and the set collapses. Resistance at least gives you reaction time, something that the defense character may not have. Willpower is quite adequate despite the fact that its defense, its resistance, and its regeneration are rather mediocre on paper. And invuln is currently quite solid, because it does offer you a good mix of defense, resist, and self-heal.
|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Sure, defense keeps you from getting hit - until it doesn't. And that happens a lot. On the ITF, the Cimerorans got my invuln's base defense as low as -100%. Of course, they still couldn't kill him because he has 90% resistance to their attacks.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Some good points, but ones I've actually heard before. I slotted Dull Pain for heals and not recharge because I actually rarely have need for it, and the slots seemed more useful elsewhere.
Hand Clap is what I use for Taunting (oddly enough). I slotted it for Disorient as I generally found that more useful. I do enjoy it, though, as it's one of the few powers that actually seems super strong. As I say, I'd thought about swapping things around as Tough Hide seems too useful to wait for, but then, I'd miss something else. Still tinkering...
Endurance issues are my biggest issue. Unless Conserve Power is running, I'm generally out of endurance in no time flat. In fact, at this moment, I have some of my attacks triple slotted for endurance (temporarily, the build above represents the goal build...). I'm looking forward to Physical Perfection.
Delaying Resist Elements seems aesthetically displeasing to me, somehow... heh. I'll tinker some more and see what you think of the result, but the reality is that the character really doesn't suffer much except against foes that have other effects that rely on hitting him or unusually hard hitting foes (or endurance drainers).
Quote:
Ok, so you say you don't get hurt enough to need Dull Pain more, but you complain about foes who can hurt you too much. You complain about effects that hit you, but you don't have your full Defense yet.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Some good points, but ones I've actually heard before. I slotted Dull Pain for heals and not recharge because I actually rarely have need for it, and the slots seemed more useful elsewhere.
Hand Clap is what I use for Taunting (oddly enough). I slotted it for Disorient as I generally found that more useful. I do enjoy it, though, as it's one of the few powers that actually seems super strong. As I say, I'd thought about swapping things around as Tough Hide seems too useful to wait for, but then, I'd miss something else. Still tinkering... Endurance issues are my biggest issue. Unless Conserve Power is running, I'm generally out of endurance in no time flat. In fact, at this moment, I have some of my attacks triple slotted for endurance (temporarily, the build above represents the goal build...). I'm looking forward to Physical Perfection. Delaying Resist Elements seems aesthetically displeasing to me, somehow... heh. I'll tinker some more and see what you think of the result, but the reality is that the character really doesn't suffer much except against foes that have other effects that rely on hitting him or unusually hard hitting foes (or endurance drainers). |
If you insist on building your toon for concept then don't complain that he's not optimal.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
Not really. A character with 45% defense and 0% resistance mitigates 90% of all incoming damage. A character with 25% defense and 50% resistance mitigates only 75% of all incoming damage.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
My unscientific impression is that mixed defenses are better than pure resistance or pure defense.
|
In practice, mixed defenses are stronger than pure resistance or pure defense due to the overabundance of defense set bonuses and +Def pool powers, which essentially turns them into pure defense plus resistances, regeneration and a heal.
Quote:
Looking at your build there's room for improvement even as a SO/common IO build. If you're willing to invest a bit of inf for some relatively inexpensive sets you can drastically improve things. From the top, here's what caught my eye:|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Ok, here's the build as I'm playing it now. As I say, he's L44 and only just got Laser Eyes. All the defensive powers are fully slotted, and KO Blow is fully slotted. The other attacks are almost fully slotted, but that's kind of beside the point of the thread.
I've been tinkering with it to see if I can't get Tough Hide earlier (I think L30 is likely where it would end up...), and I've toyed with dropping Haymaker in favour of something else, so that might free up space to get Tough Hide earlier too. |
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(9), Heal-I(11)
Dull Pain, as has been mentioned, should be slotted 3 recharge/3 heal on SO's... good IO slotting is the Doctored Wounds set; I'd slot 5 in that case skipping the Heal/End IO.
Level 6: Air Superiority -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(15), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(19)
Personally I'd be tempted to steal the extra slots from here; you've a better attack chain with your secondary; this is just a filler. You may find better places for the slots.
Level 12: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(23), ResDam-I(23)
Unless you're slotting set IO's I'd leave this at the base slot.
Level 18: Invincibility -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(29), ToHit-I(29), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31)
You're still a few levels away from the optimal slotting here, but once you hit 47 consider slotting 3 Cytoskeleton HO's in here and tossing the extra slots somewhere else.
Level 24: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(36), ResDam-I(36)
I recommend dropping Res Elements altogether, it's minor protection against a very rare damage type. In it's place think about starting the Fighting Pool.
Level 26: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(37), ResDam-I(37)
This power does have it's uses, but it's low priority. I'd slide it way back into the 40's... CMA takes it at 49. You can drop in Tough from the Fighting Pool here for a good bit more effectiveness.
Level 30: Hand Clap -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39), Dsrnt-I(39), Dsrnt-I(46), Dsrnt-I(50)
I'm not too sure just how useful Hand Clap is since it scatters mobs to the four corners of the map. If you're simply looking for a taunt, why not take Taunt instead? No scatter, long lasting and zero end... and it makes a dynamite place to slot some really nice set bonuses very cheaply.
Level 32: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I(A)
Unstoppable is a power you either love or hate... I'd consider getting Weave in this slot instead and shove Unstop back a bit if you want to keep it. Weave's a full time mitigation power instead of an "Oh S#@#" power.
Level 35: Hurl -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(39), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(40)
With Laser Beam Eyes do you really need a slow animating ranged attack? Consider dropping this to make room for something else.
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Acc-I(A), DefDeb-I(45), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(46)
The debuff isn't really very helpful here; either replace it with a recharge or use the slot somewhere else.
Level 49: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(50), DefBuff-I(50)
Oops, this should go MUCH earlier, it's available at 26 and I'd get it then, by 30 at the very latest. Your best choice would probably be to swap this with Res Energies.
Those are the basic, structural changes that occurred to me at first glance that would make your life easier... now lets look at set IO's.
First, let's look at the inexpensive choices that will yield the most return.
- 6 Mocking Beratement in Taunt will give you 1.8 additional endurance, 2.5% S/L defense, 3.13 F/C defense and 7.5% recharge. The recipes are dirt cheap and don't take any rare salvage. I've bought them recently for as little as 200 inf per recipe.
- 4 Smashing Haymaker in your ST attacks gives you a small HP bonus and 1.88% S/L defense. They should be pretty inexpensive in the 25-30 level range; if you need more enhancement simply finish out with a pair of Pounding Slugfest or frankenslot any melee damage IO's as needed.
- 4 slot your armors with Reactive Armor for 1.25% def to S/L/E/N. They've gone up a bit in the last few months but you should be able to find bargains in the 25-35 level range. The difference between slotting a 25 and slotting a 35 is less than 2% resistance when you take ED into account.
- 6 slot Thunderstrike into LBE for 2% recovery, 2.5% E/N def, 7% accuracy and another 1.25% E/N def. These should be fairly inexpensive; under a million per IO.
- Get the Steadfast Protection 3% defense unique IO, it's a global 3% defense to ALL. It goes nicely into any of your resist armors. It'll be expensive to buy, on the order of 12 million. You may want to run a couple of TF's to get merits, I believe it only costs 75 merits. Posi & Synapse would give you that.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
This build is very similar to yours in its conception --- I swapped out powers and added new ones where you had taken them --- but I think it would perform much better.
The knockback in Hand Clap is particularly counterproductive. The more mobs are next to you, the stronger your defense becomes.
I would postpone Unstoppable to 49 if you still find it wanted then, and move Tough Hide up instead. In the most extreme situations where an overclock power like that seems most useful, it will wear off too soon and leave you dead. I have never taken it on a tanker.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Canadian Shield: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(3), ResDam-I:50(3), ResDam-I:50(5)
Level 1: Jab -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(5), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(9), EndRdx-I:50(37)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(9), Heal-I:50(11), RechRdx-I:50(36), RechRdx-I:50(37), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 4: Haymaker -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(11), Dmg-I:50(13), Dmg-I:50(13), Dmg-I:50(15), EndRdx-I:50(36)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(15), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(19)
Level 8: Unyielding -- EndRdx-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(19), ResDam-I:50(21), ResDam-I:50(21)
Level 10: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 12: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(23), ResDam-I:50(23)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I:50(A), Flight-I:50(25), Flight-I:50(25)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(27), Heal-I:50(27)
Level 18: Invincibility -- EndRdx-I:50(A), ToHit-I:50(29), ToHit-I:50(29), DefBuff-I:50(31), DefBuff-I:50(31), DefBuff-I:50(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(33), EndMod-I:50(33)
Level 22: Knockout Blow -- RechRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(33), Acc-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(36)
Level 24: Taunt -- Taunt-I:50(A)
Level 26: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I:50(A)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(37), RechRdx-I:50(46)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(39), Dmg-I:50(39), Dmg-I:50(46), EndRdx-I:50(50)
Level 32: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 35: Tough -- EndRdx-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(39), ResDam-I:50(40), ResDam-I:50(40)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(42), Acc-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(43), Dmg-I:50(46)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 44: Weave -- EndRdx-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(45), DefBuff-I:50(45), DefBuff-I:50(45)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(48), EndMod-I:50(48), EndMod-I:50(48)
Level 49: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(50), DefBuff-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Quote:
IT's a bird! It's a Plane! IT'S THE SUPERMAN REMAKE!!!!!!! loljk|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Ok, here's the build as I'm playing it now. As I say, he's L44 and only just got Laser Eyes.
Canadian Shield: Level 50 Science Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fitness Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery |
Just felt I should post this when I saw this, going to look through the thread and try to help you with your problem.
EDIT: Okay, so I read that you have an END problem and that you say that you don't need dull pain,(but you have it six slotted) and you are complaining that some things are hitting you too hard making you feel squishie.
Although this statement makes no sense, when I open up your build I can see exactly what you are talking about. You have NO defense in Psionic, melee, ranged, and AoE. Your build is also quite the health junkie, I suggest you take the build the person above me took, its not much more expensive and it increases almost everything at a little cost of 59.8% max HP which can be fixed with Accolades.
I have never seen anyone have this much trouble with Invulnerability. It's honestly one of the strongest power sets out there and SS is a great addition. I think there is something wrong with the way you may be playing. Especially if you have an END problem and your end rec is double that of your use.
Your first attack when your tanking mobs is best if you use Foot Stomp, its a great disorient or kb (whatever it does I know they fall down lol) and a great AoE. When your tanking mobs you need to be able to kill them, sometime having outright damage to one enemy isn't always best. You end of doing more damage all around when you use AoEs. Hanclap(not my favorite but you chose it) would probably be best to use after you use FS and then knock out blow/ haymaker everything else. I don't know why you took hurl AND laser beam eyes, We as tanks only need(not so much need but only use) one ranged attack and that is to grab stragglers.(which you can always just taunt on.)
ALSO
RAGE IS DA BOMB!!! lol there may be a minor debuff at the end but that lasts for no time at all to make it noticeable. maybe if you are having a hard time hitting things I would swap Laser eyes with total acc.
Honestly see no end problem with your build if you have stamina, physical perfection, AND conserve power. It may be that you have fly on all the time??? if so tanks aren't blasters lol
EDIT: again: Just looked at "Call me Awesome"'s pose and have to agree a lot with him, use what he told you to your advantage, he went and broke down your build for you, gotta give him props for that.
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MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Quote:
Agree in principle, but I would add that one strength mixed or layered defenses have is that they provide some protection against running into kryptonite-type weaknesses; if Devouring Earth Quartz drops kill your defense, at least you have other things to fall back on; likewise, big -resistance debuffs hurt less if you keep high defenses.
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Not really. A character with 45% defense and 0% resistance mitigates 90% of all incoming damage. A character with 25% defense and 50% resistance mitigates only 75% of all incoming damage.
In practice, mixed defenses are stronger than pure resistance or pure defense due to the overabundance of defense set bonuses and +Def pool powers, which essentially turns them into pure defense plus resistances, regeneration and a heal. |
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I should say, I greatly appreciate the tone of the posters in the thread so far, and also the excellent suggestions made. I feel threads like this help many people who might pass through for a look. Well done, folks.
I would definatly reccomend getting tough and weave.
I don't think you need resist elements, just KO blow the guy with the flamethrower.
When you consider how invincibility works you will see that handclap is actually counter-productive to your survival.
Get tough hide as soon as it becomes avalible.
If you like handclap and hurl boulder try having them on a second 'solo' build.
Weave seems like overkill on an invuln. Mine has Tough and Aid Self. After I IO'ed him for +regen, I never used Aid Self again except when tanking Lord Recluse in the STF.
FYI, I have all powers in the primary. And I agree, take Tough Hide ASAP. It's really good and costs no endurance.
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Weave is useful when not surrounded by enemies for Invincibility (IE a lone AV or EB or something).
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Weave is going to boost your defense by around 8% across the board, against everything including psionics. That is going to make you significantly tougher, especially against single, hard hitting targets like archvillains.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Weave seems like overkill on an invuln. Mine has Tough and Aid Self. After I IO'ed him for +regen, I never used Aid Self again except when tanking Lord Recluse in the STF.
FYI, I have all powers in the primary. And I agree, take Tough Hide ASAP. It's really good and costs no endurance. |
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"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Just a heads up to clear up the skewed perception, you said you were comparing an Inv tank to scrappers and felt like they were stronger yet weren't adding IO's into the equation. You said you geared your scrappers and defender towards survivability so we'll give an INV tank the same benefit.
Inv with Weave/CJ/Tough Hide/Invincibility with 3 Foes in range and the 3% Defense IO sits at 35% defense to all. With 8 Foes in range it sits at 43% def to all but psi and saturated at 10 foes it finds itself above the soft cap at 46.2% In addition, dull pain is up 2/3's of the time with just 3 rech/3 Heal meaning it spends 1/3 of its time at 1850 HP and 2/3's at 3000 HP!!!! That is just Defense and HP alone, not even taking into account all the resists Inv gets.
SR with CJ/Weave/Slotted defenses and 3% Defense IO sits at 42% defense with only 1339 HP.
Shields with the same deal has 33% Defense to all and 1605 HP, 2138 HP when the tier 9 is up 1/3 of the time.
So basically, even at its lowest level it has more defense than your shield scrapper. When you get to fighting 7 or 8 foes it has more defense than your SR scrapper. Again, not even taking into account Resists here.
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Not overkill. Icing on the cake.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Weave seems like overkill on an invuln.
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| FYI, I have all powers in the primary. |
Also, most tanks that want to win a fight don't charge in and touch off Unstop right off the bat. Unless they're CERTAIN the fight'll take less than 3 minutes.
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I'll be honest, the main reason I find myself using Unstoppable is to avoid running out of Endurance. Only against particularly damaging foes (GMs, AVs, etc.) did I also rely on its defensive aspect. I'm hoping Perfect Physique can help with that. In any case, I've frequently considered dropping US for something else, but it is something I have found fairly useful. Perhaps I'll reconsider. Again...
Just some tinkering... I could move things around, but the awkward part is that there's only so many slots available at L50 (or I might put Hand Clap there)...
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(3), ResDam-I(3), ResDam-I(5)
Level 1: Jab -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(5), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(9)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 4: Haymaker -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(11), KBDist-I(13), KBDist-I(13), KBDist-I(15)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(15), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(19)
Level 8: Unyielding -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(19), ResDam-I(21), ResDam-I(21)
Level 10: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 12: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(23), ResDam-I(23)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A), Flight-I(25), Flight-I(25)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(27), Heal-I(27)
Level 18: Invincibility -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(29), ToHit-I(29), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(33), EndMod-I(33)
Level 22: Knockout Blow -- RechRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(33), Acc-I(34), KBDist-I(34), KBDist-I(34), KBDist-I(36)
Level 24: Hand Clap -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(36), KBDist-I(36), KBDist-I(37), KBDist-I(37)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(37), DefBuff-I(39)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 30: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(39), ResDam-I(40)
Level 32: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(40), ResDam-I(40)
Level 35: Hurl -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(42), KBDist-I(42), KBDist-I(42), KBDist-I(43)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(43), KBDist-I(43), KBDist-I(45), KBDist-I(45)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(46), EndMod-I(46)
Level 47: Laser Beam Eyes -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(50), DefBuff-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Resistance is more stable. You get hit all the time, but you trudge through. So many effects negate Defense that things can death spiral rapidly. YThe invuln laughs at missions full of Sky Raiders. Defense characters are a bit more nervous, because they go through a couple rooms just fine, then a couple people hit them close together and suddenly all their defense is gone and they're full of unmitigated hails of bullets.
A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."
Is it because of a want to give a seasoned viewpoint on said state, to rebut misrepresentations?
Sort of odd and silly when you think of it.
Off to start my "The State Of Bacon" thread.
*Toggles up armor*
LEEEROYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
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