Post AE nerf and purple prices are still rising instead of dropping...
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2009-11-06 13:56 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
Random PUGs don't speed ITF.
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Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
What I liked about the AE boss farms was that on a random PUG they could be quite challenging, and often required teamwork. Contrast that with a lot of other content, such as speed ITFs and such that most everyone just blitzes with half the melees off soloing their own spawn, and the boss farms were fun.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Random PUGs don't speed ITF.
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You better bet they do. Random PUGs speed all of the TFs, and do quite well at it.
(Which is a big reason I run fewer TFs now. I hate speed TFs)
It's hard to find a truly "random PUG" TF group. Usually two or three people running the TF do a lot of TF's.
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@Boltcutter in game.
Are purple prices actually rising?
I haven't been paying attention.
If they are, so much for my bold pre-I16 prediction that prices would return to pre-AE levels.
Oh well, the Goat is about to hit the cap so no biggie.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
QFT|
Originally Posted by brophog02
You better bet they do. Random PUGs speed all of the TFs, and do quite well at it.
(Which is a big reason I run fewer TFs now. I hate speed TFs) |
As someone who does a lot of random PUG TFs(I play odd hours and usually in 1-2 hour windows) this is how most of the TFs are run. Keep in mind most of these are on Freedom and Virtue. Other servers may be different.
Quote:
I'm sorry, but I do not accept that the majority of random PUGs operate this way. If you happen to be encountering experienced players running this who know what they're doing and drag in some random players, that's not what I call a PUG.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
You better bet they do. Random PUGs speed all of the TFs, and do quite well at it.
(Which is a big reason I run fewer TFs now. I hate speed TFs) |
If the majority of random PUGs ran things this way, the reward based on median completion time for this TF would be much lower.
Edit: I suppose this is all dependent on what the definition of "speed" is. For me a Speed ITF is under 30 minutes.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I think we all knew they wouldn't stay low even if they went down, because of the change, right on I16's heels, doubling the earning power of 50s.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Are purple prices actually rising?
I haven't been paying attention. If they are, so much for my bold pre-I16 prediction that prices would return to pre-AE levels. |
Edit: We didn't know it in advance, of course, because no one knew that change was coming. I just mean that once that change was announced, it seemed pretty obvious that the price of everything would be going up. Except some of the PvPOs, whose price can't go up more because of the 2B inf cap. >.>
The points about the price elasticity of demand are certainly valid, too.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I think we all knew they wouldn't stay low even if they went down, because of the change, right on I16's heels, doubling the earning power of 50s.
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Oh that's right- ok, I don't feel so bad about my prediction now. =P
The Goat cracked 1,900,000,000 this morning- its safe to schedule his Inf Cap fitting.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
I think you nailed it right there. I was referring to the general approach, stealthing where possible, ignoring ambushes, hell ignoring anything not required to complete the mission. On PUG ITFs, in my experience, this is quite common. Since no one is working together half the time a couple Brute/Scrapper/Tanks end up finishing the first and/or second mission while all the squishies are left face-down scattered throughout the mission. Because of the lack of cooperation and organization these "speed" runs can take an hour or more.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Edit: I suppose this is all dependent on what the definition of "speed" is. For me a Speed ITF is under 30 minutes.
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Quote:
Concur. I've been on several random PUG ITFs recently and the typical pattern is, chaos and deaths until Romulus, whom they are completely unable to take down, followed by people quitting (typically the Blasters first, which dumps team DPS even further).|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I'm sorry, but I do not accept that the majority of random PUGs operate this way. If you happen to be encountering experienced players running this who know what they're doing and drag in some random players, that's not what I call a PUG.
If the majority of random PUGs ran things this way, the reward based on median completion time for this TF would be much lower. Edit: I suppose this is all dependent on what the definition of "speed" is. For me a Speed ITF is under 30 minutes. |
I was pleasantly surprised when one succeeded today.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
As long as some players are wiling to pay higher and higher prices, the prices are bound to rise.
I can guarantee you that some players are cutting in at a price, buying, and re-selling with prices higher than they think they will sell - just to see if they will sell for that much. I can also guarantee that some players are going to pay whatever it takes to buy a certain item right at that moment regardless of how much it costs. |
You say this, as if it is a bad thing or somehow wrong.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I'm sorry, but I do not accept that the majority of random PUGs operate this way. If you happen to be encountering experienced players running this who know what they're doing and drag in some random players, that's not what I call a PUG.
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I said nothing about the majority. I'm disputing this exact statement:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Random PUGs don't speed ITF.
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Quote:
I was responding to a general statement comparing PUG AE farms (in general) to PUG ITFs (in general). I'm not going to bother with more explicit wording when context should make what I'm talking about perfectly clear to anyone paying attention at all. Applying your criteria to the original comment makes it equally false, and thus my response.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
Choose your words more carefully. In your definition, a PUG has to be inexperienced? That's how you read. I don't know of anyone that would agree with this definition.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I would agree that random PUGs are inexperienced at working together. If they were experienced at working together, they would be some kind of regular team or group of friends, not a random PUG.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
I said nothing about the majority. I'm disputing this exact statement:
Choose your words more carefully. In your definition, a PUG has to be inexperienced? That's how you read. I don't know of anyone that would agree with this definition. |
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I am gathering that this comes down to very different meanings for "Speed ITF." (Or, more generally, "speed TFs.") To me, it means a TF that reliably or repeatably completes in time noticeably below the current reward level's median time. I think the context above must have been meant to be "anyone trying to run it at a breakneck pace, regardless of success." For me, the latter isn't a speed run unless it actually comes in with a low completion time. Otherwise it's just people throwing caution to the wind.
I can see where other people would call the latter a speed run. If I was looking for a speed run and got that instead, I'd be pretty ticked off.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I took part in a "speed itf" once. It was a mind bending pace. We completed it in 30 minutes. I very seriously doubt a random pug could've pulled it off. I randomed pug'd it once and after 6 hours and 1.5 on Rom, we had to drop it. 
Quote:
I lol'd.|
Originally Posted by Hart
Marketeers are still willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill for purples to sell to the highest bidder.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hart
i16 gutted AE farming, which was fun, and the dev created farms are miserable grindfest on a handful of maps. AE farming didn't produce purples, but I think farmers from the old days got spoiled by the greater entertainment factor in the AE farms.
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If it were truly fun and oh-so-entertaining, no one should have left.
I haven't played in months, so correct me at anytime, but I thought the only things changed were rewards? The farms weren't fun. It was the fact you were gaining outrageous rewards with little difficulty.
Farmers are looking out for their crops; not out to have a good time.
"I do it better than anybody you've ever seen do it.
The screams from the haters, it's got a nice ring to it.
I guess every super hero needs his theme music .."
Quote:
Actually if one or two folks are exprienced with the said tf in question, and all other members are randoms then yeah a PUG can indeed speed a tf.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I am gathering that this comes down to very different meanings for "Speed ITF." (Or, more generally, "speed TFs.") To me, it means a TF that reliably or repeatably completes in time noticeably below the current reward level's median time. I think the context above must have been meant to be "anyone trying to run it at a breakneck pace, regardless of success." For me, the latter isn't a speed run unless it actually comes in with a low completion time. Otherwise it's just people throwing caution to the wind.
I can see where other people would call the latter a speed run. If I was looking for a speed run and got that instead, I'd be pretty ticked off. |
I've been on MULTIPLE teams that have completed the ITF in less than an hour. (I'm sorry but anything less than an hour is a speed tf to me. If we aren't killing everything or just about everything on every mission, you're speeding.) And except for one or two folks everyone had never teamed before. THAT by definition is a PUG.
This game is not hard folks. All it takes is a couple of tries and you've got the ins and outs of a tf a down.
So NO, speed pug tfs aren't a rare occurrence at all.
As long as EVERYONE on the team listens to the folks (or singular person in many instances) who have done the tf before. THAT is a key part of it.
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Quote:
Noob, amateur farmers did it for the reward.|
Originally Posted by The_Bronx
I lol'd.
I don't get this, and I think there is some incorrect terminology here. If it were truly fun and oh-so-entertaining, no one should have left. I haven't played in months, so correct me at anytime, but I thought the only things changed were rewards? The farms weren't fun. It was the fact you were gaining outrageous rewards with little difficulty. Farmers are looking out for their crops; not out to have a good time. |
The TRUE farmers that found it fun, no longer needed 7 noobs with them to farm come i16.
That's the difference.
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Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
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I'm failing to see your point in relation to mine.
Go Phillies?
"I do it better than anybody you've ever seen do it.
The screams from the haters, it's got a nice ring to it.
I guess every super hero needs his theme music .."
Quote:
As someone who enjoys occasional farming, this is still accurate.|
Originally Posted by The_Bronx
Farmers are looking out for their crops; not out to have a good time.
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The entertainment value is usually in the efficiency you're earning rewards at, not in the gameplay itself.
The exception, for me, is DA farming. In our modern age of MA and adjustable spawn size and super sidekicking etc etc, it is no longer a wise use of game time from an efficiency standpoint.
But I just love blowing up giant spawns of zombies!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
I agree with the goat. I'm just an occasional farmer, but yes, the entertainment is largely how fast you can get the rewards, not the activity itself. That said, I still really enjoy it sometimes, just carving through giant swaths of helpless enemies at a breakneck pace, the ding ding ding of the inspirations raining down. Scrapperlock bliss.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The entertainment value is usually in the efficiency you're earning rewards at, not in the gameplay itself.
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The main thing to keep in mind is that different people have fun in different ways.
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Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Point being the farms were fun. The only reason you saw most farmers taking folks along was cause you needed 7 others to maximize the number of mobs. No longer needed. Thus those who were farming for fun can do it and those who were farming for reward have stopped or have gone back to paying for farms.
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Originally Posted by The_Bronx
I'm failing to see your point in relation to mine.
Go Phillies? |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
The fun for me was mashing mobs of enemies. I have enough inf on multiple toons now that doing it for reward is pointless.|
Originally Posted by Werner
I agree with the goat. I'm just an occasional farmer, but yes, the entertainment is largely how fast you can get the rewards, not the activity itself. That said, I still really enjoy it sometimes, just carving through giant swaths of helpless enemies at a breakneck pace, the ding ding ding of the inspirations raining down. Scrapperlock bliss.
The main thing to keep in mind is that different people have fun in different ways. |
Hell prior to i14 all the toons i cared about were already Io'd out. So killing mass amounts of mobs was all I did it for.
Seeing as how most stuff just doesn't sell villside, or takes ages to (where my favorite farming toon is) I basically only do it now for the fun and not at all for the reward.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
What I liked about the AE boss farms was that on a random PUG they could be quite challenging, and often required teamwork. Contrast that with a lot of other content, such as speed ITFs and such that most everyone just blitzes with half the melees off soloing their own spawn, and the boss farms were fun.