NCSoft and Massively

I have no evidence towards either side doing it, and I couldn't really hazard a guess at that. However, we DO have Jack Emmert's testimony that it was NCsoft's decision in his interview here. Since I generally don't tend to accuse people of out-and-out lying and since we don't have any NCsoft execs denying this, it's very likely true.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

On the other hand, that is probably more along the lines of what that guy from the "Disappointed" thread sees in our future with Going Rogue.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I just want to point out something you once said to me, Sam, in an argument we had over this game getting a graphical update a few months back.

You argued that you were absolutely not for this game getting graphical upgrades because you didn't completely trust the big wigs at the top to not screw it up with the overuse of (the dreaded)bloom feature and other things that would make the game look horrible because you were comfortable with its graphics as is.

Still you trust them now to make other smart decisions. Especially relating to the direction that the game goes and to properly allocate development resources. That's a bit of a turnaround is it not?

Care to explain to me what it was that EVE did that caused it to go from under 19K subscribers 2 months after launch to close to 3 times our number now(if not more), and to continue to grow? We started out much larger and with significantly more backing and funding. CCP self published and self marketed their game and then made it a huge success. Was that an accident? Were they just 'lucky'?

What kind of time frame are you talking about? An increase over time isn't unexpected. But did it triple its subscribers in the space of one month from one update?

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Of course not. I'm not arguing that it did or that any MMO ever really could...maybe apart from the WoW insanity.

I am saying that each expansion should be expected to strengthen and ultimately increase player population. With the scope of what is being hinted at for GR, I would think this would be expected. Of course it may also have been expected with COV...

Simple. They started marketing outside of Iceland.
They also have on their side a very robust corporation/alliance system (think supergroups/coalitions) that allows for easy transfers of large populations of roving gamers with out of game affiliations. Most well known is Goonswarm, a group that formed in EVE from their association on the somethingawful.com forums.

I don't doubt that GR will increase our playerbase, even if only by a small amount. Not only are we getting new stuff and content, but the graphical update should appease people who think that CoH sucks because it's old or CO has better graphics.

What I don't think will happen is we'll have a "massive" increase in players. Minor, modest, moderate, probably. But not "massive."

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Now, if you're referring to something recent, you'd leave me scratching my head. If you're referring to something from a while back (and I think I remember what you're talking about) then I have to man up and admit it - I changed my mind. I'm not sure if I was wrong or right back then, but seeing what Going Rogue does with graphics, I have to say I completely changed my mind on wanting new and better graphics. Once upon a time, I expected "better graphics" to mean just more bloom and shiny filters, like every new console game has done, and I wasn't excited about that. I turn off Bloom and Depth of Field in City of Heroes for a reason. But what I've seen them work on is something quite on the contrary. Rather than just more flash that punches you on the face, they've gone with smoothing over the horrors of ye olde 3D graphics, and I've just been convinced to trust them.

That, and there is one other thing. Have you ever heard the phrase "Trust him to be untrustworthy?" I don't really trust the PlayNC executives to be kind and generous fellows who'll pour money in my favourite game just because I asked them nicely. In fact, I trust them to look out for their business and their revenue and make financially sound decisions, even if they end up hurting me as a player. I don't like it, but that's reality, and I can't exactly fault them for it. But by the same token, I see supporting City of Heroes, a game which has proven both profitable and stable as a smart business move, and I trust them to look out for their business and take this move. It's not the kind of trust you have for a friend, confident he'd never to anything to hurt you. It's the kind of trust you have for your boss, in that he may not always have the best in mind for you, he's ultimately going to want to make money first and foremost, and you can count on that.

Really, I have no doubt PlayNC suffered financially from their failed games and saw City of Heroes as an investment with a predictable, stable return. As far as I'm aware, the game will remain a stable source of return as long as it remains profitable, even if it doesn't expand. I'll agree with the doom-sayers on one thing - it's far too late in the day to hope for City of Heroes to grow huge and pile up large numbers of subscribers. I don't think anyone with any business sense is going to expect that.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Considering the size of Iceland...they'd HAVE to do that anyway. I don't think Iceland was ever their primary target market.

The alliance system is a big part of the game, yes. But CCP has admitted that a large percentage of their playerbase doesn't take part in alliance activities. This is supported by the new faction warfare system which allows PVP conflicts based around allegiance to NPC races rather than the low sec space conflicts which require a bigger commitment from a player to get into.

Also they state that the most well off players are mostly those who remain 'carebears' and shun the aggressive corporation gameplay and politics.

That may have changed in recent times...but it was certainly the case when I was playing the game for a couple of years.

I thought BOB was the most well-known and infamous alliance group...

It was definitely more than 3 months ago at the very least.

Well it turns out you were wrong...but let's not quibble. And I'm very happy with the direction the graphics upgrade is going myself.

Yeah...they have gone with the 'subtle yet solid' approach. I can get behind that.

As to the rest of your post, I'll agree that blind trust for any business corporation is unsmart.

I'll also say that while I will not jump on a DOOM-wagon, I will also not get out my pom-poms and cheer so loudly that I drown out any sensible criticism or concerns that people have over the coming expansion(all due respect to Golden Girl and her upbeat cheerfullness). Neither position is particularly desirable to me.

I'll stick to cautious optimism at this point.

BOB is only BOB.

Oh, certainly. Let people's opinions and fears be addressed, I've nothing against that. But when we start betting billions of INF that the game will introduce massive nerfs, I kind of draw the line at "sensible."

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

It will help quite a bit - any new screenshots will be in ultra mode, along with any gameplay footage - so the pictures on the box will look sharper, and so will any images and videos on various MMO news sites.

Plus, I think the fact that there's an expansion coming out gives the game a good vibe - it's 5 years old, and still putting out new stuff, and still being invested in.

You clearly missed the news that BoB is dead. Besides, they're not an alliance that was indicative of the phenomenon I was pointing to for the games numbers jumping upwards by leaps and bounds. I was specifically referring to groups that joined the game en masse because of their Out of Game connections.

Even still, Goonswarm is the top of the heap now, for all intents and purposes, though not much is happening in terms of warfare until the next expansion makes radical changes to the Sovereignty mechanics.

I believe so. We play by different rules.

Almost certainly, yes. But this ain't EVE. CCP take a very hands-off approach with this sort of thing - piracy, racketeering, ransom and theft are expected and pervasive elements of the game. It provides a more realistic approach to the whole economy thing (players are expected to take the risks into acccount before investing anything anywhere, just like that pesky real life thing) and that's evidently what their players enjoy. Live and let live, an' all.

I'm not sure - while it certainly is griefing, the GMs here seem to follow the policy of what happens in the SG stays in the SG - like people who join SGs and then strip the storage racks - the rule appears to be that if you invite and promote someone to your SG, you're responsible for anything they do in the SG.
So if you invited someone into your SG, and they did that demoting, kicking and inviting thing, I think they'd get away with it.

That's kinda why they added a new rank. It was suppose to cause less need for CS involvement.

If you look into the history of EVE, as others have said, rules are a lot more fast and loose. There's a strong case to be made the BoB got where it was in the first place through stuff that is truly unethical (direct developer aid). Therefore it's not really beyond the pale to use whatever means to negate those unfairly gained advantages.

Espionage is not particularly unethical per se. It's a tool, and people who use it cleverly can get ahead. Same as people who can organize well or people who can fight well.

That's about right. It's like how the player run banks over there have no direct connection to the devs at all. If you invest your money with a player-created institution in EVE you MAY get a decent return...but you may also get the shaft.

Keeps things lively. I can respect that type of environment.

Also...I didn't know BoB was dead. It shows how long I've been away from the game. Maybe I'll check things out again when they give another free week reactivation. Just out of curiosity.