Do the Council ever win one?
By
Alasdair,
Posted on: 2009-10-22 22:13 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
If they do, it's probably a very rare occurence. Seems to me that the 5th Column tend to spawn +1 relative to the council, and usually in larger groups.
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I have seen one 'win' for the council, but it is obviously incredibly rare.
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I hope not |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
In the street battles between the Council and the 5th Column, do the Council ever win one?
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There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
makes you really wonder how they lost in the first place
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Treachery. Backstabbing. Bribery.|
Originally Posted by Dr_HR
makes you really wonder how they lost in the first place
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The way all inferior organisations come to power.
And, hopefully, the 5th are going to get some well deserved payback now
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yer by using |
And, hopefully, the 5th are going to get some well deserved payback now
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| Treachery. Backstabbing. Bribery |
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And they seem more likely to have Bosses too.
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Originally Posted by Basilisk
If they do, it's probably a very rare occurence. Seems to me that the 5th Column tend to spawn +1 relative to the council, and usually in larger groups.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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As much as the 5th is a villain group with more flavor and history than the Council, it kinda creeps me out to see people cheering fascists on.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Treachery. Backstabbing. Bribery.
The way all inferior organisations come to power. And, hopefully, the 5th are going to get some well deserved payback now |
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When they first came back to Steel Canyon (and points beyond) I jokingly asked if it was wrong to cheer them on. But honestly they're just game icons. They don't do anything besides mill around on the sidewalk, stand on cardboard boxes and now beat up on Council. Heck, they don't even harass civilians like Hellions, Tsoo, Circle of Thorns or Outcast do. I suppose if the game portrayed them as rounding up and registering people or something I might feel different.|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
As much as the 5th is a villain group with more flavor and history than the Council, it kinda creeps me out to see people cheering fascists on.
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Not to say that they're good guys or anything, of course. Just that, as computer game opponents go, they're pretty unoffensive.
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At least now, they're committing assault, which is an actual crime. Not sure if standing on a soapbox making a speech in a public street is probable cause to "arrest" anybody.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
When they first came back to Steel Canyon (and points beyond) I jokingly asked if it was wrong to cheer them on. But honestly they're just game icons. They don't do anything besides mill around on the sidewalk, stand on cardboard boxes and now beat up on Council.
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I've wondered elsewhere what kind of offenders we were going after. The mission that always made me wonder was the one where the Cabal have imprisoned ghosts in a warehouse that you must free. What's the statute that covers that one? How would you fill out the police report?
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I don't know what the conceal/carry laws are in Rhode Island but I'm betting they don't include flamethrowers or rocket launchers |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
At least now, they're committing assault, which is an actual crime. Not sure if standing on a soapbox making a speech in a public street is probable cause to "arrest" anybody.
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The only times I've seen the Council win was when I helped them. The group had one of those council that just lay on the ground and doesn't respond to being hit. He somehow survived when I broke up the fight so I just left him laying on the ground playing dead.
But that probably doesn't qualify as a Council win does it?
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Words and symbols mean things. While the 5th Column are videogame characters, they're explicitly defined as fascists. That's one of the reasons they were so popular as villains (and why Nazis in general are popular as villains): Fascists tend to be so horrible that you just don't feel bad about punching them in the face.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
When they first came back to Steel Canyon (and points beyond) I jokingly asked if it was wrong to cheer them on. But honestly they're just game icons. They don't do anything besides mill around on the sidewalk, stand on cardboard boxes and now beat up on Council. Heck, they don't even harass civilians like Hellions, Tsoo, Circle of Thorns or Outcast do. I suppose if the game portrayed them as rounding up and registering people or something I might feel different.
Not to say that they're good guys or anything, of course. Just that, as computer game opponents go, they're pretty unoffensive. |
Taking what you say at face value negates pretty much everything people have said about why they prefer the 5th Column over the Council.
That and I think maybe you took my post a bit too seriously.
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That's why they're popular --- as villains. There's no question about your motivation. "Nazis! I hate these guys." |
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
Words and symbols mean things. While the 5th Column are videogame characters, they're explicitly defined as fascists. That's one of the reasons they were so popular as villains (and why Nazis in general are popular as villains): Fascists tend to be so horrible that you just don't feel bad about punching them in the face.
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The Council is just confusing. Some kind of "brain trust" in league with extradimensional aliens. They're semi-redundant to the Malta, the Rikti, and the Fifth Column as well. The Fifth Column have a one word backstory. They're fascists, and that's all you need to know.
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I thought most people preferred the 5th because Nazis are classic comic villains and the 5th had an actual backstory, etc whereas the Council was obviously a ham-handed attempt for the developers to have their cake & eat it too, shoehorned into the game lore once having Nazis in game became problematic.|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
Taking what you say at face value negates pretty much everything people have said about why they prefer the 5th Column over the Council.
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At least, that was always my objection.
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| That and I think maybe you took my post a bit too seriously. |
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This.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
That's why they're popular --- as villains. There's no question about your motivation. "Nazis! I hate these guys."
The Council is just confusing. Some kind of "brain trust" in league with extradimensional aliens. They're semi-redundant to the Malta, the Rikti, and the Fifth Column as well. The Fifth Column have a one word backstory. They're fascists, and that's all you need to know. |
Beating up Nazi super-soldiers is a lot more satisfying than beating up Italian human-alien symbiotes.
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Most of the 5th Column uniforms look cooler too, in my opinion. The red glowing goggles are pretty nifty. Ascendants are cool looking, as well, I guess, but the Council seems to like it's black and gray: not a whole lot else going on.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Most of the 5th Column uniforms look cooler to, in my opinion. The red glowing goggles are pretty nifty. Ascendants are cool looking, too, I guess, but the Council seems to like it's black and gray: not a whole lot else going on.
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I like them as the bad guys. In the sense that, without a strong and threatening foe, any story or game will suck.
Besides, it's a bit daft taking all this as anything other than a game. Especially a game which lets you be the bad guy.
I know you guys in the States are still very 'Omg Nazis Killkillkill!' and such. Anything including 'Nazi' might as well paint itself black, red and grow horns.
In real life = I'd never even consider anything to do with them, except maybe arrest
In a Game = Pretendy Fun Time Games. I like making stories, even about villains and anti-heroes and suchnot.
Also, Canon wise, the 5th aren't really Nazis anymore. Their leader is a gas-faced space alien hybrid looking to rule the world. Dictator, maybe, fascist? Only to Kheldians, probably
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Think of it as a very agressive Terry stop.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
At least now, they're committing assault, which is an actual crime. Not sure if standing on a soapbox making a speech in a public street is probable cause to "arrest" anybody.
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Well, some of the 5th Column enemies ARE painted red and black. I don't think there are any with horns, but there probably should be!|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
^ This
I know you guys in the States are still very 'Omg Nazis Killkillkill!' and such. Anything including 'Nazi' might as well paint itself black, red and grow horns. |
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Returning to the thread's real topic, I think there are several reasons the 5th Column spawns tend to beat the Council ones. First, 5th Column minions generally have more powerful melee attacks than otherwise equivalent Council minions. Second, the two types of Council enemies that aren't essentially duplicated in the 5th Column, Galaxies and (especially) Ascendants, don't routinely spawn in "fight" spawns. Finally, the battle spawns seem set to favor the 5th Column. Often, the 5th Column starts out with one more enemy than the Council, which ends up making all the difference.
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There's a mission from a Skyway contact that always makes me think that; where you are sent to go beat up Lost to make joining them frightening to the homeless. Isn't that terrorism?
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
At least now, they're committing assault, which is an actual crime. Not sure if standing on a soapbox making a speech in a public street is probable cause to "arrest" anybody.
I've wondered elsewhere what kind of offenders we were going after. The mission that always made me wonder was the one where the Cabal have imprisoned ghosts in a warehouse that you must free. What's the statute that covers that one? How would you fill out the police report? |
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
I've tried beating up the 5th in any fights I see to even the odds for the Council, but they just turn on me
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It's probably you trying to get them to recruit more female members that does that, GG.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I've tried beating up the 5th in any fights I see to even the odds for the Council, but they just turn on me
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
In the street battles between the Council and the 5th Column, do the Council ever win one?
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison