My suggestion, going by the vet reward of getting a free character slot...
Give the players two ways to get those costume slots...
They can either wait for the VET reward, or they can do a micro transaction.
Then people can decide then...do they want to wait to get it free or do they want to pay for it now.
Though out of all the vet related costume pieces, I'd only have payed to get the belly shirts (Which I was asking for before the vet rewards were even mentioned).
The wings arent all that impressive to me...and I like the Valkyrie feather wings more than the vet reward feather wings.
And all the other options I don't think I've really used. That's as a 57 month vet here.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Whether it was 5 years ago or yesterday, everyone starts at 0.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
VRs are unfair. Everyone starts from a different starting point, with advantages provided to some players over others.
|
Was I disappointed that I didn't have Angel Wings when I started my very first character? You bet.
Guess what, I was ably to overcome it quite easily by adapting. Did I go and slap those Angel Wings on my main when they did become available to me? **** no!
And as far as the game coming to an end and everyone not being on equal footing as far a Vet Rewards are concerned...
...when the plug finally does get pulled, the VR's will be the least of my worries.
Quote:
There's your answer. Costume pieces aren't needed for anything. They are just nice little tidbits for the character creator. It gives you an incentive to keep playing the game, but it's not game breaking in any way. It doesn't give anybody an advantage over anyone else, it's just something to say "Thanks for playing our game! Here, have a Trenchcoat; and if you keep playing, we'll give you some Samurai armor too!"|
Originally Posted by Bud
but costumes arent powers and they arent game breaking in any way, they are fluff, placed there because nothing else could be thought of at that time for that particular Veteran reward, IMO.
|
I'm only at three months now, so all I have are the Trenchcoats, and I'm satisfied with them. If you gave everybody everything up front, they would get bored quicker and wouldn't stick around for very long.
So, no. I don't think the Vet rewards need to be changed at all. They're fine the way they are now.
Arc ID: 348998 - Becoming a villain
Arc ID: 373341 - To Save a Hero
Got Inf?
The lack or shorts is something I just recently noticed, and I have to agree that it leaves me highly dissappointed. I had planned to make a beach outfit for my Ice/Ice Blaster for winter, as a sort of joke involving his sub-zero body temperature making winter his version of summer. Unfortunately Dr. December will not be catching a tan atop a snowdrift, since I haven't been subscribed long enough to earn shorts.
The poor guy is stressed enough between the lab work and heroics, lack of proper beach attire is just gonna spoil his vacation.
EDIT:
Honestly, I think there should be more options for shorts anyways. The Boxing shorts can stay as they are, but another one or two options would be nice to provide this exceedingly simple article of clothing to all.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
I'm a 5+ yr vet, started in June after the game launched. I have every release of the game, including the CoH DVD, CoV DVD, every upgrade, addition, bonus, etc. I've never let my account faulter, paying over $900, over 5 years, to enjoy the game and its rewards. When you have done the same, you will have all the treasures in your posession, too.
I recently began a second account, and just received the 3-month vet reward on it. I've already purchased all the bonus packs, and even bought unused CoH and CoV DVD editions and added them to that account (Prestige Power Slide, and other benefits). Only difference I've noticed is not having Sands of Mu and Nemesis readily available, but I'll have them in the near future.
If the devs would match primary account vet rewards to secondary and following accounts, I'd be more sympathetic to agreeing to making vet costume pieces available to all new players. I wouldn't agree to letting new players have the vet power rewards (Sands of Mu, Nemesis Staff, etc.)
Meh, toss 'em the wings, that'll quiet 'em for a while.
My Arc - #51736 Here Wolf... There Wolf... Werewolf!!!
Don't worry about the mule going blind, just load the wagon.
>")))>< ~~~~
My two cents...
Vet Rewards and Costume Unlocks
Costume pieces that are only available to various NPC factions, released per vet reward milestone. Hellions / Skulls at three, Circle of Thorns / Outcasts at six, and etcetera up the level range of mobs.
Instead of the Full Monty with the costumes that you get for Trick or Treating, have them be included in the actual costume lists: Skulls Jacket with the skull and crossbones on the back, Outcast emblems, Legacy Chain custom pieces, Longbow Emblem, etcetera and so forth.
You do your time, you get your rewards.
It's fair and equal for everyone.
Sure wish a vet reward would be bonus of 3 enhancement slots to assign and fill as you want.
My Arc - #51736 Here Wolf... There Wolf... Werewolf!!!
Don't worry about the mule going blind, just load the wagon.
>")))>< ~~~~
Quote:
Everyone started from the exact same starting point, which is 0 months of playing time. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
VRs are unfair. Everyone starts from a different starting point, with advantages provided to some players over others. |
Any advantages the vet reward program gives the long-term vets is minimal compared to the advantages longer-term players get from having a dozen lvl 50s with IO sets, and hundreds of millions of accumulated influence.
Perhaps you would be in favor of setting all characters in the game back to 0 xp and 0 influence everytime someone new signs up to play? It's the only way to keep a fair and level playing field for new players.
Look, I realize you are emotionally invested in being right, whether you actually are right or not. You are also determined to bend the universe to your will via negotiation, rather than simply be patient and acquire the vet rewards over time like everyone else.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
Quote:
Just to point out, "time played" is incoming business, since each month of time costs money.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Quote:
|
------------
My one comment on this issue:
The only veteran rewards that matter to me at all, are the costume pieces.
And those costume rewards are most likely the only reason that I grabbed the "6 months+1" subscription deal when it was offered.
Draw whichever conclusions you'd like from this.
Quote:
My problem is the large number of people that got some or all of those benefits the first day they were implemented, without "waiting". Every time these Veteran's Rewards discussions come up, this is the point that is constantly ignored - many people (and the vast majority of those speaking against any change in the program) never had to wait for many of the benefits. They acquired them the day they were added to the game engine, or soon thereafter. They never had to wait a year and a half to get wings, or three years to get shorts. They received the benefits as soon as they were made available in the game, like free issues only for veterans. |
Originally Posted by Goldbrick
Look, I realize you are emotionally invested in being right, whether you actually are right or not. You are also determined to bend the universe to your will via negotiation, rather than simply be patient and acquire the vet rewards over time like everyone else.
|
"Just wait your turn" completely ignores the fact that most people telling me to wait my turn never had to wait for theirs. They got in on opening day.
And I am just talking about costumes (and base decorations) here. In a game whose biggest draw is customisation - and whose biggest direct competitor is trying to boast on having more customisation - cutting off large swaths of your potential customers from any aspects of that customisation is simply bad business.
Quote:
Just because a large number of players got multiple VRs the day they rolled out does not mean that those players did not have to "wait" for them. In fact several of them (costume pieces like trench coats & wings) were requested over and over and over again all throughout the first 2 years of the game before VRs were instituted. We waited throughout those 2 years of asking for them.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
My problem is the large number of people that got some or all of those benefits the first day they were implemented, without "waiting". Every time these Veteran's Rewards discussions come up, this is the point that is constantly ignored - many people (and the vast majority of those speaking against any change in the program) never had to wait for many of the benefits. They acquired them the day they were added to the game engine, or soon thereafter. They never had to wait a year and a half to get wings, or three years to get shorts. They received the benefits as soon as they were made available in the game, like free issues only for veterans.
"Just wait your turn" completely ignores the fact that most people telling me to wait my turn never had to wait for theirs. They got in on opening day. And I am just talking about costumes (and base decorations) here. In a game whose biggest draw is customisation - and whose biggest direct competitor is trying to boast on having more customisation - cutting off large swaths of your potential customers from any aspects of that customisation is simply bad business. |
I'm not quite a 5 year veteran, only 57 months. When VRs rolled out, I most certainly DID NOT get all of them, only the ones I had earned up to that point in time. I will always be slightly behind the leading edge - where I should be since I was slightly behind the leading edge in starting to play the game.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Quote:
So should I have to wait two years to play villains, since you waited two years to get villains released?
|
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
Just because a large number of players got multiple VRs the day they rolled out does not mean that those players did not have to "wait" for them. In fact several of them (costume pieces like trench coats & wings) were requested over and over and over again all throughout the first 2 years of the game before VRs were instituted. We waited throughout those 2 years of asking for them.
|
*grabs his freshly unlocked tommy gun and fills the thread full of lead* Let's let it get buried already.
I would love to see many of the outfits available to everybody including myself but I, like most, already know thats not going to happen.
And I'm a 3 month vet.
Quote:
As has been pointed out we old vets did "wait our turn" by paying to play for a couple years by that point without those features. I think you're missing the point of the veteran rewards. They are a thank you/reward for staying with the game and paying to play it. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
My problem is the large number of people that got some or all of those benefits the first day they were implemented, without "waiting". Every time these Veteran's Rewards discussions come up, this is the point that is constantly ignored - many people (and the vast majority of those speaking against any change in the program) never had to wait for many of the benefits. They acquired them the day they were added to the game engine, or soon thereafter. They never had to wait a year and a half to get wings, or three years to get shorts. They received the benefits as soon as they were made available in the game, like free issues only for veterans.
"Just wait your turn" completely ignores the fact that most people telling me to wait my turn never had to wait for theirs. They got in on opening day. And I am just talking about costumes (and base decorations) here. In a game whose biggest draw is customisation - and whose biggest direct competitor is trying to boast on having more customisation - cutting off large swaths of your potential customers from any aspects of that customisation is simply bad business. |
They are the rewards you get for paying the monthly fee over and over. Just as the cool emotes and new costume pieces are your reward for buying the booster packs. Just as exclusive costume pieces and temp powers are your reward for buying the CoX Edition Upgrades. Just as playing a Villain class in the Rogue Isles was your reward for buying Villains when it first came out. Just as Ultra Mode graphics will be your reward in Going Rogue if you have upgraded to a newer video card. Just as playing in Praetoria will be your reward for buying Going Rogue.
Everything you buy in the NCSoft store or the upgrades you purchase for your computer reward you in a different way but none are required to play the game at its most basic. Veteran Rewards reward you for paying to play the game at its most basic. And we old vets had paid to play all that time prior to the vet rewards so we were rewarded with the vet rewards for the time we had already paid previous. It was a thank you. There isn't anything unfair about it being retroactive, if anything it's more fair by retroactively rewarding those of us that were there from the beginning and have stuck with it.
50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control
Quote:
I'm pretty sure the talk is that everyone gets Ultra Mode, not just those that buy Going Rogue.
|
Originally Posted by Energyman
Just as Ultra Mode graphics will be your reward in Going Rogue if you have upgraded to a newer video card.
|
Quote:
Right, everyone will get Ultra Mode as an option, but only those that have the hardware to support it will be able to turn it on. On my laptop, no I won't be able to use it. On my home PC, I'll need to upgrade. Until that happen I won't get to use Ultra Mode, but regardless I'll be able to play GR when I purchase it. And you better believe I will. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I'm pretty sure the talk is that everyone gets Ultra Mode, not just those that buy Going Rogue.
|
50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control
Quote:
You're right it's not fair. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
My problem is the large number of people that got some or all of those benefits the first day they were implemented, without "waiting". Every time these Veteran's Rewards discussions come up, this is the point that is constantly ignored - many people (and the vast majority of those speaking against any change in the program) never had to wait for many of the benefits. They acquired them the day they were added to the game engine, or soon thereafter. They never had to wait a year and a half to get wings, or three years to get shorts. They received the benefits as soon as they were made available in the game, like free issues only for veterans.
"Just wait your turn" completely ignores the fact that most people telling me to wait my turn never had to wait for theirs. They got in on opening day. And I am just talking about costumes (and base decorations) here. In a game whose biggest draw is customisation - and whose biggest direct competitor is trying to boast on having more customisation - cutting off large swaths of your potential customers from any aspects of that customisation is simply bad business. |
New players should get no rewards till their account is 2.5 years old then they can have all vet rewards up to their paid time so they can be on equal footing with people who were here on 04/24/2004 as far as rewards issue dates go.
Quote:
As for the upcoming ultra mode, I don't want the freaking option greyed out if they "think" that my card can't handle it... I want to try it anyway, if my computer crashes, oh well. I got CoHelper to fix that in a jiffy.
|
Originally Posted by Energyman
Right, everyone will get Ultra Mode as an option, but only those that have the hardware to support it will be able to turn it on. On my laptop, no I won't be able to use it. On my home PC, I'll need to upgrade. Until that happen I won't get to use Ultra Mode, but regardless I'll be able to play GR when I purchase it. And you better believe I will.
|
Quote:
By that logic, no one should get Power Customisation until they have played for over five years. Nor should they get access to the RWZ or Cimerora for four.
|
Originally Posted by Mr. NoPants
You're right it's not fair.
New players should get no rewards till their account is 2.5 years old then they can have all vet rewards up to their paid time so they can be on equal footing with people who were here on 04/24/2004 as far as rewards issue dates go. |
Quote:
Yeah...your logic is pretty selfish.
|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
By that logic, no one should get Power Customisation until they have played for over five years. Nor should they get access to the RWZ or Cimerora for four.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
So should I have to wait two years to play villains, since you waited two years to get villains released?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
By that logic, no one should get Power Customisation until they have played for over five years. Nor should they get access to the RWZ or Cimerora for four.
Oh My!
Eiko, Eiko, Eiko!
In the words of R. Reagan, "There you go again!"
Your logic continues to floor me.
So why is "time subscribed" a logical and reasonable restriction to keep people away from "oft-requested" costume pieces like wings and trench coats?
The whole problem with your stance, stever, is that it completely ignores the entirety of this thread. Having costumes locked away behind veteran's rewards is nonsensical and unfair. The argument is that "veterans had to wait two years to get wings (because there were no wings in the game before that), so new players should also have to wait two years to get wings" (even though wings now are in the game.)
Locking costume pieces that were never previously available before the VR system away within the VR system is grossly unfair, and arguing that it's fair because veteran's had to wait for them (so now everyone else does too) is the exact same thing as saying that no one can access an issue until they've played as long as a first-day veteran did before the issue was released. Just because the costume items never existed before the VR system is not a reason to leave them within the VR system.
Unless you really think new players should have to start playing CoH (and only CoH) at issue 1, and only get access to subsequent issues (and expandalones) as they rack up veteran rewards. In which case, I wish you luck with your future business ventures, because you're going to need it.
Quote:
I think it's time for you to email the devs directly with your concerns. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Locking costume pieces that were never previously available before the VR system away within the VR system is grossly unfair...
|
Remember, your concerns with the VR program have come up many times over the years, almost verbatim, without any changes taking place (except perhaps for a toning down of the later vet rewards -- no exclusive costumes have been given out to vets since the 39 month boxing set).
And the people who preceded you in this cause were similarly resistant to all persuasion. Eventually, though, they stopped posting about it.
There must be a reason why the program hasn't changed, and I bet the reason has been provided to you in this thread.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
Quote:
I'm quite aware that the reason is "Veteran's won't stand for a change". |
Originally Posted by Goldbrick
There must be a reason why the program hasn't changed, and I bet the reason has been provided to you in this thread.
|
I'm just trying to convince them that their stance is bad for the game, and thus perhaps some flexibility is required.
So instead of saying "No, don't change veteran rewards at all", maybe we could hear some "Okay, if we get costumes out of the VR program, maybe we could replace them with X", rather than just knee-jerkedly resisting change.
.
They most certainly did not. They got the progress awarded for the months they had already paid for and used.
No-one on Nov 6th 2006, got more rewards that they were eligible to in terms of months paid in the past. I did not get as much as several SG mates who were here from the start. Others got less than I did, right down to an SG mate who got the 3 month badge only.
There simply was no 'boost' in veteran status for being around when it started.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617