A way to improve snipe attacks
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2009-10-10 09:46 in Suggestions and Ideas
Last I checked, nobody had any complaints about Snipes...Hell, I don't know what I'd do witout my Snipe. It's the perfect opening strike and frequently gets used in my attack chain thanks to a single -Interrupt IO.
AS can't do that much. Without -Interrupt available, you'll never get off an AS mid-fight (Well, maybe SR...).
But I digress. It isn't AS that is causing the Fear, it's Assassination. See also, the Fear only occurs if you AS from Hide. Imagine if you could AoE Fear every time you AS, regardless of hiding or not? It would be overpowered. Throwing a Snipe every time it's off cooldown is easy, to the point you could stack enough Fear on an entire group to cripple them indefinitely, and the -ToHit accompanying Fear would ensure your Snipes never get interrupted. Now we're getting into the realm of absurdly overpowered.
If you slotted a Snipe for Recharge and/or Fear, you would make Perma-Doms @#$% their pants in awe.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
Then our experiences are different. I've seen several people discuss the relevance of snipe in builds.
As for 'perma fear'.... I said give it a "chance to". Obviously perma fear on a snipe would be overpowered. Since there is no equivalent to 'hide' for anyone who can actually use snipe, giving the power a semi-low percentage of applying the fear effect is the only other way I could see it applied.
In any case, I just thought it would be a fun little addition. I know I found it funny any time I hit someone with AS from hide and saw their buddy next to them cower in fear. Seeing as how Snipes usually have the same kind of surprise, I thought it would add a little realism.
Quote:
Except Snipes don't do more damage than most attacks. Snipes are scale 2.7 damage. A lot of Scrapper attacks can reach that level of damage without being interruptible, and some can even hit multiple targets (Head Splitter is 2.62, capped at 5 targets). What's more, sooner or later we're going to see one of the bigger Tanker sets proliferated to Scrappers, and those each sport a 3.56 scale damage attack, which would outdamage snipes by a LOT. Remember - Scrappers have the same melee damage mod as the Blaster ranged damage mod, so things ARE comparable.|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
Then I came up with an idea. It might not be the best, but feel free to post your own in this topic as well. Sniper attacks for sets should be the Assassins Strike of ranged powers. Yes, it already does more damage than most attacks out there, but I would *love* to see a sniper attack with an added chance to perform an AoE fear around it's target.
|
I don't think gimmicks are going to save snipes at all. I've discussed this at length, and yes, at least a sizeable number of people complain about snipes. For one, the damage they do as compared to the time they take to animate is pitiful. Many sets can make better use of their Aim/Build Up time by using smaller attacks that activate several times faster. Together, they still come out faster and do more damage than a snipe. From experience, opening with them instead of a snipe does a lot more damage.
The only real solution I can see is doing the same thing to Blaster snipes as was done to Dominator snipes - namely, upping their damage to 3.56. That still won't give them reasonable DPA, but at least it would make them meaningful. Dropping them to the same activation time as the Assault Rifle snipe would bring them to about the right level of balance, numerically.
The only benefit Snipes have over other attacks is their extreme range, which isn't worth much when that's the only attack you can use at that range. Outside of hoversniping and pulling, they simply aren't the best tool for the job. They're too easy to interrupt and deal too little damage for the time they take to animate. In fact, in most situations, using a snipe is a waste of time and damage potential.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I kinda like the idea I read before about making snipes incredibly thin long range cones. Though Sam's idea works too.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
Quote:
Kinda like HEAT's 2 shotting hami overpowered, or not quite so?...|
Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
Now we're getting into the realm of absurdly overpowered.
|
I always took my snipe in all my 1 ranged AT's, their fun, especially watching the enemy lose 3/4 of their HP before they even know your there, tee hee =P
Quote:
The problem with this is that they can lose MORE than that before they are able to respond by using conventional attacks, and that shouldn't be so. I am squarely against any attack which takes so long for so little damage that you can fire off two conventional attacks in LESS time and do MORE damage. That's just wrong.|
Originally Posted by NeonPower
Kinda like HEAT's 2 shotting hami overpowered, or not quite so?...
I always took my snipe in all my 1 ranged AT's, their fun, especially watching the enemy lose 3/4 of their HP before they even know your there, tee hee =P |
As far as I've seen, and I've looked, believe me, snipes are one of CoH's examples of awesome but impractical power.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Damn it Sam I lost an hour. Be more careful when you use a TVTropes link.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
As far as I've seen, and I've looked, believe me, snipes are one of CoH's examples of awesome but impractical power.
|
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
I've got a blaster with every combo imaginable. They are, by far, my favorite AT.
I've only got Snipe on one of them.
My Energy/Energy is the only one that actually makes use of the Snipe, a big reason for that is the Knockback allows me time to use it in battle.
My Fire/Ice had far more useful powers so it got skipped.
My Ice/Fire likewise
Thought about taking it on my new Rad/Fire but the build is really tight and I just can't see getting much use out of it.
I adore my Energy snipe. The rest I can apparently live without.
Except on those rare builds were I'll take it for the extra damage at low levels, then vetspec out around the 20's.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
Quote:
Well, speaking from personal experience, I've tried all Blaster primaries other than Sonic (which doesn't have a snipe anyway) and everything other than Psi I've played to the higher levels (30+). Now, that's not to claim I'm some kind of expert, or that I'm always right. It's just to explain why I'm talking about them. I've taken Snipes on all my Blasters (who could take any), though I don't use them on all of them. Here's why:|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
I've got a blaster with every combo imaginable. They are, by far, my favorite AT.
I've only got Snipe on one of them. My Energy/Energy is the only one that actually makes use of the Snipe, a big reason for that is the Knockback allows me time to use it in battle. My Fire/Ice had far more useful powers so it got skipped. My Ice/Fire likewise Thought about taking it on my new Rad/Fire but the build is really tight and I just can't see getting much use out of it. I adore my Energy snipe. The rest I can apparently live without. Except on those rare builds were I'll take it for the extra damage at low levels, then vetspec out around the 20's. |
My AR/Dev/Munitions Blaster uses his snipe a lot. Very much as often as he can. The reason for this is simple - Assault Rifle has only two single-target attacks. Even if I could Buckshot, which is both costly and weak, that's still nowhere NEAR enough damage to down resistant bosses. What's more, Devices offers no direct attacks, and even the ridiculously costly Gun Drone doesn't help much with damage. So, I essentially HAVE to use Sniper Rifle as often as I can. What's more, because AR/Dev has neither Build Up nor Aim, I'm not wasting Aim/Build Up time by sniping AND I get a boost to my snipe damage naturally.
My Fire/Fire/Flame Blaster doesn't use her snipe almost at all. There's simply no point. Blaze + Fire Blast does more damage than Blazing Bolt and does so for less time. Given that Flares has such good DPA and DPS overall, and that I can open with Blaze -> Fire Blast -> Flares -> something else -> Flares and throw more damage during the Aim/Build Up window, I have no use for it. What's more, oftentimes I can just go Fireball -> Fire Breath -> Rain of Fire and still have time left to do stuff during my Aim/Build Up window, whereas Blazing Bolt eats up over HALF of that window just by itself, and does damage nowhere NEAR worth the cost.
My Energy/Energy/Force Blaster makes almost no use of her snipe. There just isn't any point. Between Power Burst and all the ludicrous damage output in Energy Manipulation, why would I? It takes bloody ages to snipe, I keep getting interrupted, and at the end of the day, Total Focus does MORE damage in LESS time. I hover all the time, and I have a series of Flight Speed boosting powers, so moving into melee range is easy. As well, Stun + Total Focus is a MUCH better opening on your average boss than Sniper Blast ever could be.
My Electric/Electric Blaster does make some use of Zapp. Occasionally. Electric's lack of a meaningful third single-target attack, however, is the leading cause. I can oftentimes make do with Thunder Strike and Havoc Punch, but when I'm fighting a tough enemy from range, I'll usually fit Zapp somewhere into my attacks. Nevertheless, something as simple as Tesla Cage is much more useful to me than Zapp. It just takes so long to animate, though given that Electric/Electric lacks strong single-target damage, it's kind of justified.
My Archery/Devices Blaster barely ever uses her snipe. I used to open with it back in the day, but ever since I got Rain of Arrows, it has been completely worthless. I'd much sooner open with Rain of Arrows -> Explosive Arrow -> Fistful of Arrows. Even when it comes to single-target damage, Ranged Shot is still worthless. Blazing Arrow deals almost as much damage (seriously), shoots over an 80 foot range, and with Snap Shot being as fast as it is and with such high DPS, it's usually smarter to just go Blazing Arrow -> Snap Shot -> Aimed Shot -> Snap Shot -> Fistful of Arrows -> Snap Shot -> etc. Specifically given how fast Snap Shot and Aimed Shot are and how fast they recharge, Ranged Shot becomes meaningless. That, and I DO have access to Aim, which means I have a time constraint and Ranged Shot wastes time for little return.
My Psychic/Mental Blaster isn't high enough level to comment on yet. I put her on hold a level or two after getting Psychic Lance.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Also: There are very few things quite as satisfying as bringing down a fleeing foe with Sniper Rifle. Perfect sound effect, perfect lead time, perfect ragdoll flop; priceless.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
My AR/Dev/Munitions Blaster uses his snipe a lot. Very much as often as he can. The reason for this is simple - Assault Rifle has only two single-target attacks.
|
Quote:
Yikes! I should be more careful with those. After all, we all know that TV Tropes will ruin your life!
|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Damn it Sam I lost an hour. Be more careful when you use a TVTropes link.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
I actually had "Run, Forest! Run!" bound to my Sniper Rifle back in the day. It made shooting down fleeing villains inexplicably much more satisfying when you yell that as you take aim.
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Also: There are very few things quite as satisfying as bringing down a fleeing foe with Sniper Rifle. Perfect sound effect, perfect lead time, perfect ragdoll flop; priceless.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I'm quite fond of AR's Sniper Rifle, but the best snipe in the game has got to be Rad's. Fire the photon torpedoes!
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Quote:
No one's Ice blaster takes or skips the snipe. Ice Blast doesn't have a snipe. :P
|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
My Ice/Fire likewise
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
|
Quote:
If only the animation actually matched its effect...
|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
I'm quite fond of AR's Sniper Rifle, but the best snipe in the game has got to be Rad's. Fire the photon torpedoes!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
I love Proton Volley - that is one of the classic sound effects of science fiction - but it's too damn slow. Actually, a lot of the Rad Blast attacks are like that. I'm not just talking about PV's interrupt/lead time, all snipes have that, but even when it fires it takes forever. It feels like I'm constantly getting the last shot in on someone my teammates killed while PV or Neutron Bomb or Cosmic Burst or especially Electron Haze was busy animating. Maybe it's just my imagination (I'm sure one of the Number Slaves will be along to tell me how many milliseconds it takes each power to fire, and how that compares with, say, Energy Blast), but I always feel like I'm late to the party when I play my Rad Blast characters.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
If only the animation actually matched its effect...
|
Quote:
Oddly I always feel that way when I play my Energy Blast characters.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Maybe it's just my imagination (I'm sure one of the Number Slaves will be along to tell me how many milliseconds it takes each power to fire, and how that compares with, say, Energy Blast), but I always feel like I'm late to the party when I play my Rad Blast characters.
|
Oh, also I'd like to second pretty much everything Sam has said about snipes in this thread. A majority of the time I'm usually better off using attacks other than the snipe. Heck, snipes don't even add all that much to defiance in spite of their huge wind up.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Quote:
That's the big problem with them. Snipes have such a high opportunity cost, that they really ought to be powers you go "Man, I know it's hard to pull off, but I REALLY want to use a snipe!" Instead, outside my AR/Dev Blaster, it's usually, at least for me, "Man, I don't want to use a snipe, but I took the power. I gotta' use it!"|
Originally Posted by Oliin
Oh, also I'd like to second pretty much everything Sam has said about snipes in this thread. A majority of the time I'm usually better off using attacks other than the snipe. Heck, snipes don't even add all that much to defiance in spite of their huge wind up.
|
Look at something like a nuke. Oh, sure, the cost is absurd - your entire endurance bar and no recovery for a while. But you know what? There has never been a single time when I haven't seen a big, clumped-together spawn and NOT wished Inferno were recharged. And there hasn't been a time when I've used Nova (and didn't miss) that I haven't ended up giggling like a little girl afterwards. Yeah, nukes are costly and situational, but when the situation is right, the cost it WORTH IT.
For how problematic Snipes are, I really want to see them as the power you have to stop yourself from using, not scrape the bottom of the barrel for reasons not to respec out of it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Burst, Slug, Sniper rifle. Thats three.| My AR/Dev/Munitions Blaster uses his snipe a lot. Very much as often as he can. The reason for this is simple - Assault Rifle has only two single-target attacks. |
Although I know blaster maths is very simple, so you an be forgiven. The usual equation is, after all; Mob + Blaster = Dead
And the dead has the bonus of working both ways
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Quote:
My premise was "other than Sniper Rifle," as we were talking about whether I was using it or not. That, and being interruptible and so slow, Sniper Rifle only half-counts. I considered counting Ignite, as well, but its DPS is pretty low, its setup is pretty cumbersome, especially against bosses (which is where it's actually needed O_o) and the fact that it takes almost as long as a snipe to animate, anyway. It has a four second animation.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Burst, Slug, Sniper rifle. Thats three.
Although I know blaster maths is very simple, so you an be forgiven. The usual equation is, after all; Mob + Blaster = Dead And the dead has the bonus of working both ways |
Look at it this way - I don't have a lot of choice but to use Sniper Rifle. If I don't, my only single-target attacks are Burst and Slug.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Dead on the blaster's part is dependent on how long after mob death. Yay for RotP |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Burst, Slug, Sniper rifle. Thats three.
Although I know blaster maths is very simple, so you an be forgiven. The usual equation is, after all; Mob + Blaster = Dead And the dead has the bonus of working both ways |
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?
My ar/dev loves his snipe.
Surveillance > snipe > Full Auto > wiped out spawn.
From an IO standpoint snipes are great way to pick up a cheap +7.25% global recharge bonus.
And a fully IO slotted snipe is a pretty nifty attack- with enough -interrupt you can throw it out in combat. It's also great for picking off runners, and the extreme range is tactically useful for a soloing blaster.
On a team it rarely gets a workout, which I guess makes it one of those "situational" powers. But I like mine.
I mean I wouldn't kick if they gave it a buff, but IMHO it doesn't really need one.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
I've always thought it'd be nice if Interrupt Reduction enhancements actually reduced the wind-up, rather than just making more of it uninterruptible. Apart from that, good to go.
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I mean I wouldn't kick if they gave it a buff, but IMHO it doesn't really need one.
|
Quote:
Yea, that's the only reason I picked my snipe back up on my energy blaster, I had a somewhat throwaway power slot and a couple snipe IOs. So now I get a chunk of +recharge out of it.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
From an IO standpoint snipes are great way to pick up a cheap +7.25% global recharge bonus.
And a fully IO slotted snipe is a pretty nifty attack- with enough -interrupt you can throw it out in combat. It's also great for picking off runners, and the extreme range is tactically useful for a soloing blaster. |
The snipe still kind of sucks though. I can do more damage with other powers in the same amount of time it takes for the snipe to animate and fire off. I do use it occasionally as an opener, but that's pretty much only on a whim since I figure I have the power, I might as well use it once in a while at least.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
I was thinking the other day... from what I can tell, a lot of people skip their respective sniper attacks. Either they have too many powers to choose from and the sniper happened to be least effective/favorite, or they just don't see it as worth taking. So, I thought.... what could make it more interesting?
Then I came up with an idea. It might not be the best, but feel free to post your own in this topic as well. Sniper attacks for sets should be the Assassins Strike of ranged powers. Yes, it already does more damage than most attacks out there, but I would *love* to see a sniper attack with an added chance to perform an AoE fear around it's target.
What do you think?