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Hate to break the news to ya Space, but fascists are equal opportunity oppressors. In WWII 3,700 women served as concentration camp guards, and women such as Therese Brandl and Irmtraut Sell, belonged to the Totenkopf ("Death's Head") units.|
Originally Posted by Space_Ace
Quick Reply to the thread.
Yeah no. The 5th wouldn't really want/have female soldiers in their groups, fascist tend not to be the best feminist at heart. |
So there really is no reason the 5th couldn't have female members.
There's a severe lack of NPC female Wolf/Crab/Bane Spiders and Mu Mystics, and NPC male widows and fortunatas. Throw in Huge Widows too, just for giggles.
Formerly known as Stormy_D
Like someone mentioned earlier they need a whole new girl gang for low to mid levels complete with slaps, hair pulls and kicks to the groin. And I want them to scream like carnys when they die.
Some excellent points raised in this thread so far.
I agree that some of the groups could do with more story, and at the same time some revamped mobs.
Thanks for throwing in the historical reference there Forbin. I didn't actually know that they had had females in their ranks.
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This is exactly what the game DOES NOT need added. Here's hoping you were totally joking. |
Originally Posted by Lucky666
Like someone mentioned earlier they need a whole new girl gang for low to mid levels complete with slaps, hair pulls and kicks to the groin. And I want them to scream like carnys when they die.
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No problem. A little more trivia for ya. The pic I provided is from an old film called "Ilsa: She Wolf of the S.S." A bizarre cult classic in some circles. Now here's the trivia part. The film was shot on the set of "Hogan's Heroes" after the show was cancelled.
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Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
Some excellent points raised in this thread so far.
I agree that some of the groups could do with more story, and at the same time some revamped mobs. Thanks for throwing in the historical reference there Forbin. I didn't actually know that they had had females in their ranks. |
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Seeing Female Tsoo models would completely ruin one of my villains, who is the daughter of a heavy-Tsoo supporting family refused entrance because she was a daughter.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
As for women fitting in existing villain groups, [t]he Tsoo [are the] wors[t].
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Although I could always write it off as her villainy and power finally bringing the gang around to realise the error of their ways.
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Originally Posted by Autonomous Prime
There's a severe lack of NPC female Wolf/Crab/Bane Spiders and Mu Mystics, and NPC male widows and fortunatas. Throw in Huge Widows too, just for giggles.
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But since VEATs didn't exist for six issues, there exists a good in-game reason for the models to be the way they are.
I'd still like to see more girls out there. Wyvern, the Legacy Chain, the Freaks, and the Outcasts I see as highly-likely sources of existing enemies with new female models. And a couple more all-girl gangs would be cool, too. I like the idea of the Amazons and Black Cats.
I haven't seen anyone mention trolls. I've fought a lot of trolls and seen only guys. I would think street superadyne wouldn't discriminate. I realize testosterone might amplify the results, but I'd think lady trolls could be found in the low to medium levels at least.
From the Tsoo entry in ParagonWiki
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Empasis mine. They may not be common, but it seems like female Tsoo are valid if strong enough to hold their own.
| When the war finally ended, Tub Ci consolidated his forces in the regions of Talos Island, Independence Port, and Steel Canyon. They basically own the drug business, gambling dens, and protection racket in those areas. They celebrate their domination regularly, with loud, raucous parties held throughout the month. These parties are usually held in abandoned warehouses or empty lots in bad neighborhoods deep within Tsoo territory. Sometimes the parties devolve into blood sports, where both men and women participate in no-holds-barred scraps, earning prestige and glory among the streets. Offering a heady mix of drugs, flesh, and violence, the Tsoo gatherings act as magnets for those drawn to their dark lifestyle, and Tub Ci craftily uses them as a constant recruitment drive to bolster his ranks. |
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Scary thought: what if you HAVE fought female trolls.|
Originally Posted by Rodoan
I haven't seen anyone mention trolls. I've fought a lot of trolls and seen only guys. I would think street superadyne wouldn't discriminate. I realize testosterone might amplify the results, but I'd think lady trolls could be found in the low to medium levels at least.
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Eeeeee. Taking hormones can really change a person (and isn't that kinda the end result of 'Dyne?).
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The Circle are regularly seen performing rituals on people in Kings Row. One ofthese rituals is the possession of the subjects' bodies. The victims are, as often as not, female. Those robes are pretty concealing. The ones with hoods up could easily be either gender.|
Originally Posted by Space_Ace
Circle of Thorns are ghosts from thousands of years ago, yet again, I don't see people who have lived long enough to have seen people owned before would be very progressive.
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I wouldn't want to see the Council have females added. Doing so would mean that most of the costumes would have to be adjusted for female skeletons, and a few, like the Vampyri, would need new costumes. This is WAY too much of Jay's time for too little return.
Most (all?) Nemesis soldiers are mass-produced automata. The only reason to have female ones are the existing replicas of normal people. The soldiers are basically period replicas, and female soldiers would be out of place.
Typical Mafia have a less than modern outlook on women. I can't imagine them having women in the fighting ranks.
Malta should have some female members. It's highly unlikely that the Malta bosses are going to take a highly skilled operative and say "No, we don't take girls in our regular troops. But here's an application for the Knives. They'd be happy to have you." To avoid the issue that Council would have, limit female models to specialists, like the Gunslingers, and maybe one or two others.
The Tsoo seem well suited to female units. Either new mystically-powered Lieutenants that don't just spam Hurricane and O2 Boost, or actual ninjas, that use stalker-like powers (stealth, placate, crit/assassin strike).
Either adding females to the existing "thug" groups (Hellions, Skulls, Mooks, Warriors) or adding a new all/mostly girl Thug group would be cool.
Honestly, I don't see a HUGE disparity. We have females in Arachnos, Longbow, Vanguard, Rikti (they're fairly androgynous after the change, especially in armor), Knives, Carnies, Circle of Thorns (at least the Succubi, plus any that may be in the robes), several of the Praetorian groups (Mother Mayhem, Malaise and Battle Maiden at least), plus many Signature Heroes and Villains. More would be good, but is the work really worth the time spent on it?
@Roderick
Thanks for your thoughts Roderick. I agree with you for the most part, but I guess while playing the game, certain sections just look kinda sexist.
Regarding this:
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Yes. I think so. Many players have played this game for 5+ years and a lot of the enemy groups have not change appreciably at all in that time. It would be great to throw a fresh coat of paint (err, gender?) on things. Would it be game changing? No, but it would be nice to walk into a map filled with Sky Raiders and see a few that are actually new and different... likewise for the Malta Group (as you mentioned), the Freaks, etc.
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Originally Posted by Roderick
More would be good, but is the work really worth the time spent on it?
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Nemesis soldiers are human, not automatons. There are a few Nemesis hunt missions blueside with the express purpose of discouraging recruitment. That guy floating in the Warhulk tank? He was one of those recruits. Nevertheless, Nemesis is at least implied to be sexist (as well as racist), so female Nemesis Army soldiers are unlikely.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
Most (all?) Nemesis soldiers are mass-produced automata. The only reason to have female ones are the existing replicas of normal people. The soldiers are basically period replicas, and female soldiers would be out of place.
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| Either adding females to the existing "thug" groups (Hellions, Skulls, Mooks, Warriors) or adding a new all/mostly girl Thug group would be cool. |
The appropriateness of adding female models to existing factions I think breaks down like this:
Hellions and Skull - These are based on traditional American gangs, wherein women are either somebody's girlfriend, or everybody's girlfriend.
Outcasts - Mutation doesn't discriminate, and I have not seen any indication that the Outcasts would either.
Trolls - The recruit is given an enormous dose of Superadine, and must simply remain conscious. It does not matter if the recruit acts improperly or loses his or her sense of judgment in fact, such wild activities are encouraged as long as he or she remains awake.
Some highly muscular female models would fit in with the Trollkin, and perhaps some used-to-be-feminine models for the lieutenants bosses.
Lost - The Scroungers could use some female models; the other ranks are too mutated for it to matter much what sex they originally were.
Vahzilok - They already have the Face Reapers and Face Harvesters as the Facemaker's minions, as well as the Freakshow Meat Doctors.
5th Column and Council - Women fought, in small numbers, on both sides in WWII.
PPD - "These brave men and women watch over Paragon City, dedicating their lives to make it a better place."
Malta - While they do have their sister unit, the Knives of Artemis, that's not enough reason for the Malta Group to be male only.
Crey -So girls can be agents and Paragon Protectors, but not guards, scientists or tanks?
Freakshow - Geek and Punk chicks are hot. Techno-punk chicks with crazy cybernetic limbs? Even hotter.
Circle of Thorns - About half their possession victims are female. While the robes could conceal a lot, they still look decidedly male.
Tsoo, Sky Raiders, Goldbrickers, Luddites, Wyvern, Legacy Chain - No reason not to include some women.
Adding new models to the existing enemy groups (and maybe giving their powers a once-over) would make for a wonderful QoL issue.
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Considering there are no female Tsoo models, I took the line to mean that while women can participate in Fight Club, they don't get to be members of Project Mayhem, which is the Tsoo gang proper.
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Originally Posted by Zamuel
They may not be common, but it seems like female Tsoo are valid if strong enough to hold their own.
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That'd be an interesting path to take, given how many players have a "Troll Girl" character or two. I'm hoping for some more masculine costume options for women in Going Rogue, and that would be a good way to fit that into the game. And if I can make a Troll and an Orc female in WoW look presentable, I'm sure Jay and his minions can do the same here.|
Originally Posted by LordSquigie
Trolls - The recruit is given an enormous dose of Superadine, and must simply remain conscious. It does not matter if the recruit acts improperly or loses his or her sense of judgment in fact, such wild activities are encouraged as long as he or she remains awake.
Some highly muscular female models would fit in with the Trollkin, and perhaps some used-to-be-feminine models for the lieutenants bosses. |
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| Lost - The Scroungers could use some female models; the other ranks are too mutated for it to matter much what sex they originally were. |
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| Crey -So girls can be agents and Paragon Protectors, but not guards, scientists or tanks? |
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| Freakshow - Geek and Punk chicks are hot. Techno-punk chicks with crazy cybernetic limbs? Even hotter. |
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| Tsoo, Sky Raiders, Goldbrickers, Luddites, Wyvern, Legacy Chain - No reason not to include some women. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Just an FYI, Your information is incorrect. You may be unaware of this but in the Soviet Union women fought in larger numbers in front line roles. Over 800,000 women served their Motherland in World War II; nearly 200,000 of them were decorated and 89 of them eventually received the Soviet Unions highest award, the "Hero of the Soviet Union". They served as pilots, snipers, machine gunners, tank crew members and partisans, as well as in auxiliary roles.|
Originally Posted by LordSquigie
5th Column and Council - Women fought, in small numbers, on both sides in WWII.
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Way off topic:
IMHO Women rock as soldiers, and the US has done them a great disservice by preventing them the honor of fighting side by side with us guys for so many years.
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Ah, Orc women. Killer bodies and such wonderful dispositions. "I have no respect for people with small piercings. I say go full hog. Put a spear through your head."|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That'd be an interesting path to take, given how many players have a "Troll Girl" character or two. I'm hoping for some more masculine costume options for women in Going Rogue, and that would be a good way to fit that into the game. And if I can make a Troll and an Orc female in WoW look presentable, I'm sure Jay and his minions can do the same here.
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| While I'm with you on Guards and Scientists, but Tanks? The Power, Voltaic and Cryo tank suits (while obviously using the male model meta-game) are actually androgynous and bulky enough to fit both a male and a female frame. The same goes for the Crey Protector troops, as their armour is even more bulky. |
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| Have you SEEN Clamour? |
EditWhile I would love to see female Tank Freaks, it is unfortunate that we will probably not get to see them firing lasers from their robotic nipples (~1:27) or launching them as missiles.
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| I'm not quite sold on the Tsoo, but everything else, yeah, very much so. |
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just an FYI, Your information is incorrect. You may be unaware of this but in the Soviet Union women fought in larger numbers in front line roles. Over 800,000 women served their Motherland in World War II; nearly 200,000 of them were decorated and 89 of them eventually received the Soviet Union’s highest award, the "Hero of the Soviet Union". They served as pilots, snipers, machine gunners, tank crew members and partisans, as well as in auxiliary roles.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Anything that gets me Nemesis Ponies is ok in my book
  How about female Freakshow? Hey, we've already got Clamor!  |
WTF LMAO
tht would so be awesome to fight.
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Originally Posted by LordSquigie
Since I didn't have any numbers available I erred on the side of caution. Do you have any statistics for the Axis powers?
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The only numbers I stumbled across concerning the third reich was under female nazi war criminals. I'm guessing that aside from the guards the Germans used women in similar roles as the other nations. Russia I think was the exception and that was out of desperation. Too many men had been killed or captured fighting the Germans.
Going to chirp in with another idea I'm surprised hasn't been covered, specifically for The Family. Given how determined the Family seems to be to relive the glory days of Prohibition (like exclusively using drum-magazine Thompsons, probably manufactured and bought from small groups in the 3rd world, over readily-available AK-47s or M16s) I'm surprised there aren't any dames that have shown up. Dames, broads, molls, the Bonnie part of Bonnine & Clyde, they're a classic image of the 20s, and oftentimes depicted as the brains behind the brawn of their husbands and boyfriends. Create a "Capo Dame" lieutenant, armed with a pistol but possesing several Leadership powers, and maybe a few psionic powers too (Hey, the Consigs get gravity control, why not?).
Costume-wise this shouldn't be too hard to do: skirts from the Wedding Pack + heels and maybe fishnets + the bolero from the Witch set sans the cloak part, and badda bing, badda boom. Oh, and the cigar Detail 2 face option, gotta have that (or at least a cigarette; remember kids, only villains smoke tobacco!).
As for the rest, here's my 2 influence:
*5th Column: Cold and slightly creepy blonde Nazi babes? I'm in. They're a common element of the pulp-era; Watch Last Crusade or Hellboy for an example.
*Lost: We already have several models for scruffy/homeless women, toss some improvised armor on them and that "I'm going to enjoy hurting you" Hostile Face 2 and bang, you're done and it isn't even lunch yet.
*Sky Raiders: According to the Porter's description the Raiders are a relatively small outfit that has to be careful with its manpower. With that in mind I doubt Duray and co. would turn down a skilled, morally-unburdened potential recruit just because she's female.
*Malta: Same deal as the Sky Raiders. At the very least they'd need some women in a position of power in order to negotiate with the Knives when the latter are in one of their hyper-feminism moods.
*Banished Pantheon: Given their "We hate everything" attitude isn't conducive to training, the BP would be another group that wouldn't be picky as to who joins. No need for female zombies, though *shudder*
*Tsoo: Kunoichi. Yakuza babes. What more needs to be said, really?
*Luddites/Wyvern/Legacy Chain: Three groups that could use the attention and fleshing out. I honestly wonder sometimes if The Devs created them just as occasional alternatives to Longbow in the "Good guys to punch" category. Both Wyvern and the Chain refer to women in important positions in their backstories, and the Luddities would probably be desperate for members anyway.
*Scrapyarders: Three words: Rosie the Riveter. And hey, the group's led by Iron Widow to boot.
I could go on, and on, and on, but this is getting long enough as it is.
"Take the Yuan-Ti, bash them with a club made of frozen stupidity, then rip out their sense of subtlety with a rusty spoon, and then you have the Snakes of Mercy Isle" -Taltha Widowfang, drow stalker
Now playing at an MA near you: Dragonslayers #335375
Hmm perhaps this is something that could be tossed to the new art hires for something to work on as a side project...
...unless they're being kept locked in a room and forced to work on nothing but the next Issue or Going Rogue.
In which case, back to work you!
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Actually, there is one man in their ranks who could make this a liability.
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Originally Posted by MartyRallner
*Sky Raiders: According to the Porter's description the Raiders are a relatively small outfit that has to be careful with its manpower. With that in mind I doubt Duray and co. would turn down a skilled, morally-unburdened potential recruit just because she's female.
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Formerly known as Stormy_D
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Hm. Well, perhaps Duray could, um... ah, screw it. No chance of having women in the group with that guy around.
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Originally Posted by Autonomous Prime
Actually, there is one man in their ranks who could make this a liability.
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"Take the Yuan-Ti, bash them with a club made of frozen stupidity, then rip out their sense of subtlety with a rusty spoon, and then you have the Snakes of Mercy Isle" -Taltha Widowfang, drow stalker
Now playing at an MA near you: Dragonslayers #335375
Forgive me for the double post, but I feel this is important enough to warrent it:
Devs, if you take us up on this idea and do add more female models, for the luvvagod, don't create any more "Longbow Barbie" types, with long hair that is gaurnteed to get in the way at a bad moment. Sure it'd work for the Lost or Outcasts, but it's hard to take an elite military organization seriously when it lets some of its members have potential obstacles growing out of their head (hells, even the women of GI Joe keep their hair to a short, managable length). If you really, really must, then at least use the Low Ponytail haircut instead of the high one so it doesn't look so out of place.
I know I'm splitting hairs (ba-dum PISH) on this one, but it's a personal gripe of mine I figured I'd voice.
"Take the Yuan-Ti, bash them with a club made of frozen stupidity, then rip out their sense of subtlety with a rusty spoon, and then you have the Snakes of Mercy Isle" -Taltha Widowfang, drow stalker
Now playing at an MA near you: Dragonslayers #335375
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Though I have never personally even noticed that... You are completely right.
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Originally Posted by MartyRallner
Forgive me for the double post, but I feel this is important enough to warrent it:
Devs, if you take us up on this idea and do add more female models, for the luvvagod, don't create any more "Longbow Barbie" types, with long hair that is gaurnteed to get in the way at a bad moment. Sure it'd work for the Lost or Outcasts, but it's hard to take an elite military organization seriously when it lets some of its members have potential obstacles growing out of their head (hells, even the women of GI Joe keep their hair to a short, managable length). If you really, really must, then at least use the Low Ponytail haircut instead of the high one so it doesn't look so out of place. I know I'm splitting hairs (ba-dum PISH) on this one, but it's a personal gripe of mine I figured I'd voice. |
YAY IMMATURE FUN TIME!!!!
YOU WOULD HIT THAT?!
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
:P
On topic: i agree with the fact that more girls for cox would be better, the group which i saw that has the most equal men-women is Longbow, but the rest, i dont find much equalness...IMO of course