I know how to create a nemesis system.


AkuTenshiiZero

 

Posted

Everything required to do this is already in the game, except the content.

Fifty missions. At each level, when you visit a trainer, you're given the option to enter a mission and face your nemesis.

We take the custom critter creator from the Architect and use it to design our nemesis at character creation. That nemesis is then stored as if it were one of your characters, to be referenced specifically in and by nemesis missions and nowhere else in the game. Whether it uses up a character slot or not would be up to the developers (though i believe it's a "sacrifice" many would make in order to have a nemesis system).

Missions could be generic (in the same way scanner/newspaper missions are) or tailored for origin, or perhaps even for archetype (presuming the new code added a few issues ago recognizes AT in the same way it does origin).

The "hard" part would be creating all of the missions and dialog for 50 levels of play, five origins, all of the ATs, etc, or enough generic missions to make them seem original throughout 50 encounters.

The point here is that it is possible now. It wouldn't give you random ambushes by your nemesis, or insert your nemesis into existing content, but it's a good start (in my opinion, of course).


 

Posted

What's the point?
"The other game has it!"???
Bah! Humbug!


 

Posted

I hope it doesn't come off as corny, but you're absolutely right. Technically, the Architect can already do everything you've listed, and if the Architect can do it, it can be made into official content. I guess some discussion could go into the matter of exactly WHAT your nemesis will be doing in these missions, as an effective name-swap may not be in-concept with the character who is supposed to be the nemesis. For my title character, his nemesis will be my title villain, who already has quite an elaborate setup.

If we do get a Nemesis system added to the game at some point, I'd expect that the sheer volume of content needed to make it work would be the biggest stumbling block, much like hand-editing zillions of effects scripts was to making power customization happen. If I were a bit more of an optimist, I could theorise that the developers are already working on this covertly and will announce it as a feature at some point, but for the sake of being realistic, I wouldn't have my hopes up.

That, and one point that keeps getting left out of Nemesis concepts is something I got shot down over back during I14's Beta - JUST having missions where you can predict your nemesis will be there isn't enough. That's what people told me, and I tend to agree. Here's the cool thing, though - we already have a system which allows extra out-of-faction enemies to be appended to existing spawns. Why not let your nemesis spawn like that and just pop up in your missions here and there? You know, just to harass you. Imagine you're fighting your umpteenth gang of Freakshow, when you turn the corner and take a Stone Hammer to the face. "Long time no see!" Something to that effect. It shouldn't be frequent at all so you EXPECT it, but just frequent enough to pop up once every few days.

In fact, depending on the nature of the Void Hunter Insertion system, that may actually be doable with current tech.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingStar View Post
What's the point?
"The other game has it!"???
Bah! Humbug!
It's a feature which has been frequently requested for this game, and was originally conceived for this game, before "the other game" was even a concept on a napkin. The point is, it can be done in this game now with the existing tools, all that's missing tying it all together and putting it in context with content.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
That, and one point that keeps getting left out of Nemesis concepts is something I got shot down over back during I14's Beta - JUST having missions where you can predict your nemesis will be there isn't enough. That's what people told me, and I tend to agree. Here's the cool thing, though - we already have a system which allows extra out-of-faction enemies to be appended to existing spawns. Why not let your nemesis spawn like that and just pop up in your missions here and there? You know, just to harass you. Imagine you're fighting your umpteenth gang of Freakshow, when you turn the corner and take a Stone Hammer to the face. "Long time no see!" Something to that effect. It shouldn't be frequent at all so you EXPECT it, but just frequent enough to pop up once every few days.

In fact, depending on the nature of the Void Hunter Insertion system, that may actually be doable with current tech.
The problem with that is having your nemesis beat the living snot out of someone else, or worse, having fifty peoples' nemeses rampaging through a zone, making it impossible for some players to navigate through the zone, complete hunt missions, etc. If nemeses weren't limited to instances, there would need to be some way to prevent them from being used as a griefing tool, piling up in zones or possibly even writing code which would prevent them from attacking anyone who wasn't within X' of their linked players. That's why I suggested having them in missions.

Now, having them spawn in regular instanced content randomly, using the Void Hunter code, I could get behind that. But out in the wild, it's too open to abuse and/or player detriment.


 

Posted

To be honest, I'm guilty of creating 'nemesis' missions in the MA, and just playing them for fun, but not publishing them. However, a nemesis system would be cool, but it will NOT send me to CO just because THEY have it!


to TO THE END!
Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminara View Post
Now, having them spawn in regular instanced content randomly, using the Void Hunter code, I could get behind that. But out in the wild, it's too open to abuse and/or player detriment.
Oh, instanced missions only, of course, and I'd go out on a limb and say one one person's nemesis at a time. I mentioned Voids only to illustrate the mechanic (completely neglecting that those spawn outside, too), but I wouldn't want anything even remotely like that in terms of frequency. On a Kheldian, I see roughly one or two Voids per mission, whereas a random nemesis encounter would be something I'd limit to once a couple of days or so. Rare, at any rate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

I would love to see them spawn in Radio/Paper mish's randomly, great idea's and more then likely very possible to do.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingStar View Post
What's the point?
The point is that having a regular, recurring archfoe is one of the central tropes of superhero/supervillain comics, and the world of City of Heroes will always be missing an essential piece of the cultural picture until some provision for same is included in player characters' careers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Oh, instanced missions only, of course, and I'd go out on a limb and say one one person's nemesis at a time.
Only one? You know how fun it would be to round a corner and have all 8 of your teams nemeses sitting there like some sort of legion of doom waiting to do battle with you (note that I'm picturing just 8 nemeses having taken the place of the entire mob not 8 nemeses placed within an already large spawn)

I say make that another add on to the difficulty slider. How many team nemeses are allowed to spawn in your mission with options to allow anywhere from 1 to a full 8.

Better question though.. will someones nemesis become an AV on a large team? Personally I think they should stay as EBs at all times to stay equivalent to the character who is their nemesis rather than randomly jumping from strong to weak from one fight to another.


 

Posted

Maybe every 5 or 10 levels. Fighting your Nemesis once every level would get tedious fast. "This guy again? I just put him in the Zig yesterday! Do they even have security there?"


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

As much as I'd prefer an acctual person being behind my nemesis, this idea does have merit. Though there's nothing preventing you from recreating another player's character, and simply reporting back to them whenever there's an encounter for storyline purposes. AI-assisted roleplaying, I guess.

It would certainly add some interest to the typical PUG. As an added thought, maybe have the nemesis automatically have built up aggro from the player in question, causing them to specifically target them first. I would say a fairly significant amount of aggro, enough that it would take a few taunts to pull them off.

You could even go as far as setting up their appearance rate via the new difficulty system.

Rarely - Hardly ever see them, but their strength and rewards are boosted. (EB Level?)
Moderately - Moderate pacing, normal strength and rewards. (Boss Level?)
Constantly - Practically every other mission, but weak and with poor rewards. (Lt Level?)


The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)

Virtue Forever.

 

Posted

How's this then...

Most of the stuff I have to say has been said before, so I'll focus on stuff I haven't seen yet.

Firstly, there has to be a Nemesis Introductory Mission. I think that's a given though, so I'll move on to the next point.

The random spawning thing is a good idea, but there's some other possibilities as well. First of all, certain missions (Mostly AE ones) could have a Nemesis flag. So rather than "insert random critter here" it would insert 1-8 Nemesises... Nemesi. I don't know the plural.

Similarly, there is a chance that a Newspaper/Radio Mission would involve your Nemesis as a boss, or that they would appear during a safeguard/mayhem mission.

And finally, scripted Nemesis Boss Encounters would be interesting. Like that 8 man villain team that was mentioned.


 

Posted

Elaborating on the ideas above.

* You could limit the spawning of the nemesis, to that of the mission holder.
* And add it as an option in the 4XP difficulty setting. If set to 'yes' then there would be a chance for your nemesis to spawn, maybe like 5%.


 

Posted

Isnt this in cryptics new game that isnt at all, not one bit based on the CoX franchise? although i do agree that characters could have nemesis, only they appear in random missions from time to time, say your doing a paper mission, your nemesis appears randomly in any of them at the enterance ready for you.


A total of 14 of my nerves have been harmed in the making of this post...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
Maybe every 5 or 10 levels. Fighting your Nemesis once every level would get tedious fast. "This guy again? I just put him in the Zig yesterday! Do they even have security there?"
This. Also, a level 2 character already having a nemesis after starting off the heroing career? Maybe after level 10 or so.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom View Post
This. Also, a level 2 character already having a nemesis after starting off the heroing career? Maybe after level 10 or so.
If it were me, I'd leave that up to the player to decide. Maybe you gained your powers by studying really hard in school, but the school bully dropped in a vat of chemicals and now you're both growing up in power simultaneously, or maybe you just became so strong someone took notice. Or maybe you don't have an arch-nemesis at all. The way I envisions it, it should be something you could initiate (and probably end) at any point in your character's career.

A difficulty slider controlling appearance frequency is a smashing idea, as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
If it were me, I'd leave that up to the player to decide. Maybe you gained your powers by studying really hard in school, but the school bully dropped in a vat of chemicals and now you're both growing up in power simultaneously, or maybe you just became so strong someone took notice. Or maybe you don't have an arch-nemesis at all. The way I envisions it, it should be something you could initiate (and probably end) at any point in your character's career.

A difficulty slider controlling appearance frequency is a smashing idea, as well.
That is a good point, Sam. Tbh, as long as the player has a lot of control over it then I think it's a good idea!