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Interesting, I've never seen that behavior from Spectral Terror either from my 39 Ill/Rad or teaming with several friends' Illusionists. I see mobs cower from the terror but I've never seen them run unless something else affects them like a rain of ice/fire power.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
While I agree that the tank was just being stupid, I think I should point out that spectral terror DOES indeed cause mobs to flee. The spectral terror pet has 2 powers - Cloak of Fear and terrify.
Cloak of fear is a 20 foot radius, mag 3, 7.35 second terrorize(which is the fear power that causes mobs to cower in place) and -15% to hit, this power pulses every 5 seconds Terrify is a single target power that does a 3 second afraid (flee) and a 22 second terrorize after a 2 second delay (and an additional -15% to hit), this power fires every 6 seconds. So what the pet does is immediately fear everything in a 20' radius then it starts hitting individual targets with terrify - which causes them to flee for 2 seconds then stop and cower for another 20 seconds. So, depending on the speed of a mob they may be able to cover a considerable distance during the flee portion of the terrify power - but not ALL of them will do this, only 1 every 6 seconds, and they will stop after 2 seconds and cower for quite a while. As a side note - the to hit debuff is not enhanceable and cloak of fears to hit debuff will not stack with itself but you still get up to -30% to hit on multiple targets over time, which is another reason spectral terror is so nice. |
I'm not disputing you, but it's not something I've noticed happen from Spectral Terror.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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He's a Tank, and PA takes a significant part of their value to a team away. I don't think highly of him due to this exchange, and I don't think you should either. Don't sweat the small minds.
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Originally Posted by CB_GB
As a new player, this exchange with a Tank was an eye-opener for me yesterday.
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Life - a sexually transmitted terminal condition.
I would never turn away an Illusion Troller! Just for Phantom Army alone.
But yes, likely it's the knockback issues. But it's exargerrated on Illusion/. My Phantasm is slotted for additional knockback (set bonuses 
), and I hardly notice any knockback.
Though, that said, it makes me wonder if I know this tanker >.>
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I like Illusion trollers just as much as the next forumite. They are great. However the bottom line to all of this is this little gem right here.
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Originally Posted by CB_GB
NRN: im the Leader and i get to choose. thats the way it is. |
Chime in how you think the Tank was wrong all you want. It was still his team and his choice.
@Quarktease
The Unofficial Official of Nothing Official
Proud member of Nites of Darkness/Shut Your Pie Hole
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The reason you don't see it CMA is that once they get feared they stay put, so few rarely get away.
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Interesting, I've never seen that behavior from Spectral Terror either from my 39 Ill/Rad or teaming with several friends' Illusionists. I see mobs cower from the terror but I've never seen them run unless something else affects them like a rain of ice/fire power.
I'm not disputing you, but it's not something I've noticed happen from Spectral Terror. |
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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I think some of the AE babies came away from the AE farms with some crazy notions that ordered from the full wrong-menu of wrong-appetizers, wrong-soups-or-salads followed by a three-course wrong-meal and finished off with a decadent dessert of nut-sprinkled wrongness and cheap instant coffee. I've run across a player or two who NEVER wanted to team with a mastermind EVER, seen a thread about a player who was telling the poster that Dark Miasma and Storm Summoning were fairly useless sets, etc.
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Originally Posted by Sweetmeat
I have run across this attitude before. Usually it's when I've been invited to a farm without being told it was a farm (I don't join farm teams because they are boring).
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I refuse to team with tools like this, so I would have quit immediately after this tell, player noted and one-starred this loser.
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Originally Posted by CB_GB
NRN: im the Leader and i get to choose. thats the way it is.
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Same here. "I can choose too O Mighty Leader, and I choose to leave."
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
I refuse to team with tools like this, so I would have quit immediately after this tell, player noted and one-starred this loser.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
I have come across Illusions creating problems for themselves (as an Illusion player I can say that) from not understanding the game beyond their own power tray. Don't be one of them.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I disagree, to victimise some one like this simply for the set they are playing is a form of bullying.|
Originally Posted by Quarktease
I like Illusion trollers just as much as the next forumite. They are great. However the bottom line to all of this is this little gem right here.
Chime in how you think the Tank was wrong all you want. It was still his team and his choice. |
If some one is abusive etc then yes I'd kick them, apart from that I see it as a challenge and get on with the game - it is after all a game!!
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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The single target Terrorize includes a Mag 3 "Afraid" for 2.98 seconds. The mechanics of "Afraid" mean that it really depends on what the foe is doing at the time it hits to determine whether he runs, so he doesn't run all that often. The single target Terrorize has a range of 50 feet, while the Cloak of Fear is only 20 feet. Foes who come into the area after the Cloak of Fear hits and don't come within 20 feet are more likely to run away, but they only run for less than 3 seconds so they don't go far. |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Interesting, I've never seen that behavior from Spectral Terror either from my 39 Ill/Rad or teaming with several friends' Illusionists. I see mobs cower from the terror but I've never seen them run unless something else affects them like a rain of ice/fire power.
I'm not disputing you, but it's not something I've noticed happen from Spectral Terror. |
It is my belief that the main benefit of slotting Spooky for Fear Duration is that it extends the time that a foe who ran away cowers in fear before he is ready to run back into the fight.
Many issues ago, Spectral Terror used to cause a lot of foes to run for a lot longer than 3 seconds, and that was complained about so much that the general recommendation was to not take Spectral Terror. That was changed around Issue 4 or 5 or so.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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The mechanics of the game make this true, but that doesn't mean that it is right. Idiots who are leaders are still idiots.
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Originally Posted by Quarktease
I like Illusion trollers just as much as the next forumite. They are great. However the bottom line to all of this is this little gem right here.
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Chime in how you think the Tank was wrong all you want. It was still his team and his choice. |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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This. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Having the star doesn't mean you have to be a dictator.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
The mechanics of the game make this true, but that doesn't mean that it is right. Idiots who are leaders are still idiots.
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@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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Ah, I am enlightened. Seriously I'd never noticed that happening before so I was unaware of that potential, very minor, problem.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
The single target Terrorize includes a Mag 3 "Afraid" for 2.98 seconds. The mechanics of "Afraid" mean that it really depends on what the foe is doing at the time it hits to determine whether he runs, so he doesn't run all that often. The single target Terrorize has a range of 50 feet, while the Cloak of Fear is only 20 feet. Foes who come into the area after the Cloak of Fear hits and don't come within 20 feet are more likely to run away, but they only run for less than 3 seconds so they don't go far.
It is my belief that the main benefit of slotting Spooky for Fear Duration is that it extends the time that a foe who ran away cowers in fear before he is ready to run back into the fight. Many issues ago, Spectral Terror used to cause a lot of foes to run for a lot longer than 3 seconds, and that was complained about so much that the general recommendation was to not take Spectral Terror. That was changed around Issue 4 or 5 or so. |
And I certainly want to stress to any newer players here that a competent tanker will have very little difficulty dealing with anything in an Illusionist's toolbox. The only problems I've had tanking are with bad Stormies who are indiscriminate with their knockback powers and even then I can keep things more or less under control. The only time I've had significant problems was with one stormie who had Hurricane on all the time and insisted on being next to me. It took half a TF to convince him to either stay back or turn off Hurricane.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I'd rather play with the leader of that team than with some of the folks in this topic, and I say this as someone who actually likes Illusion and knockback.
His team, his choice ; your character, your choice to leave the team and join another one or make your own (note I'm not targetting the OP here who handled the situation perfectly in my opinion). The tanker was (relatively) polite and explained his reasons when prompted to do so by the OP, namecalling and insults are completely uncalled for.
The irony of someone getting called a dictator because he's playing differently than the one and only way forumites think the game should be played is funny, though.
I'm not telling anyone HOW to play. Sure if its your team, do it your way, but at the very least see if the person you are so willing to kick based on powersets alone, can play the sets properly before you decide they are unworthy of your (generic your not you your) scary good team first. To kick someone just because of what they are without seeing if they can play it to your (generic your) standards is dictator-ish.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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I don't think anyone's disputing that he had the authority on his team, everyone's agreeing however that he's an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing. In my experience the best response to idiots like that is to simply quit team at the first opportunity and flag them so you know to avoid them in the future.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I'd rather play with the leader of that team than with some of the folks in this topic, and I say this as someone who actually likes Illusion and knockback.
His team, his choice ; your character, your choice to leave the team and join another one or make your own (note I'm not targetting the OP here who handled the situation perfectly in my opinion). The tanker was (relatively) polite and explained his reasons when prompted to do so by the OP, namecalling and insults are completely uncalled for. The irony of someone getting called a dictator because he's playing differently than the one and only way forumites think the game should be played is funny, though. |
Most of us are pretty tolerant of newcomer mistakes and willing to invest the time to help people learn provided that the person in question is at all willing to listen.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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To kind of "pile on" with some of the other comments, you might notice that I said that I would try to enlighten the person first.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I'd rather play with the leader of that team than with some of the folks in this topic, and I say this as someone who actually likes Illusion and knockback.
His team, his choice ; your character, your choice to leave the team and join another one or make your own (note I'm not targetting the OP here who handled the situation perfectly in my opinion). The tanker was (relatively) polite and explained his reasons when prompted to do so by the OP, namecalling and insults are completely uncalled for. The irony of someone getting called a dictator because he's playing differently than the one and only way forumites think the game should be played is funny, though. |
In effect, we are having a problem with stereotyping a player based upon a misconception of his powersets when we know (a) that misconception is mostly not justified, and (b) a good player can get around such problems even if they are justified. I know that I wold be somewhat upset if I was on that person's team, and he decided to kick me based upon a misunderstood stereotype. (And he was wrong about Phantom Army!) There are good players who can use knockback at just the right times to be effective without being harmful to the team. And how do you think people get to be better? They make mistakes and try again -- but they won't try again if they get kicked.
If I invite a player onto my team, and he plays poorly, I try to suggest ways that he might improve. If he's trying, I don't kick him. I only kick players who are inconsiderate of others or rude or arrogant jerks. I expect the same courtesy from others.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Well, there's a difference between telling someone how to play, and telling someone they shouldn't play at all. |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
The irony of someone getting called a dictator because he's playing differently than the one and only way forumites think the game should be played is funny, though.
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OTOH, as I said, at least he gave the OP until the end of the mission.
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I really think that for this game to mature, and for the tank AT to be at all viable, they need to add some sort of ranged power for tanks that would somehow make enemies attack the tank instead of other players. Then having one or two guys that run off wouldn't be such a problem, and maybe someone with ranged damage powers could shoot them, or a scrapper with a highly slotted travel power could somehow make his way to them and finish them off.
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Originally Posted by CB_GB
NRN: i dont like chasing after things.
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Virtue
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
I see what you did there.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Helpful posts, thanks. Sounds like Knockback was his concern, and that 'Storm' was likely the other powerset (along with Energy and Illusion) that he didn't like.
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From my end, far better for everyone would have been to say, "I hate chasing after targets, so please avoid knockback." Instead, it took several tells to get even a vague sense of what troubled him. It wasn't until this thread that I began to understand.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
The tanker was (relatively) polite and explained his reasons when prompted to do so
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Better still, of course, would be to see how I played, rather than assuming the moment he noticed my AT. I certainly noticed how he played.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I have come across Illusions creating problems for themselves (as an Illusion player I can say that) from not understanding the game beyond their own power tray. Don't be one of them.
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I'm aware that Holds can break targets slipping on Ice, for instance, though that tends to be more of an issue for hard holds. I know I can build unwanted aggro on myself with ill-attempted holds or wasted heals. Anything else?
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Originally Posted by orangemonkey
illusion is pretty hard to play if you don't know what you're doing.
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Good notes on Spectral Terror, too:
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Originally Posted by EricHough
The spectral terror pet has 2 powers - Cloak of Fear and terrify.
Cloak of fear is a 20 foot radius, mag 3, 7.35 second terrorize(which is the fear power that causes mobs to cower in place) and -15% to hit, this power pulses every 5 seconds Terrify is a single target power that does a 3 second afraid (flee) and a 22 second terrorize after a 2 second delay (and an additional -15% to hit), this power fires every 6 seconds. |
and
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
The single target Terrorize has a range of 50 feet, while the Cloak of Fear is only 20 feet. Foes who come into the area after the Cloak of Fear hits and don't come within 20 feet are more likely to run away
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It'd been better, though, if the team leader did their job and scanned the players on their team roster *before* the start of the mission and deciding then and there if someone didn't fit their preferred team composition, rather than mid-mission.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Well, there's a difference between telling someone how to play, and telling someone they shouldn't play at all.
OTOH, as I said, at least he gave the OP until the end of the mission. |
OTOH, I would never ask someone to leave a team because of their archetype or power set selections. Or, as someone else here mentioned, because of less than skillful play due to their being relatively new to the game and/or the archetype they are playing. Some combinations of archetypes/powers can turn out to be even more fun and interesting to play together.
I probably would have just started stealing the group's experience by confusing all the bosses.
I'm surprised the leader didn't hit you with that old chestnut too!
"When heroes fail, the Angels will save you."
MASTERMIND NUMERIC KEYPAD PET CONTROLS
HAMIDON NUKE RAID GUIDE
This tank kinda sounds like a tool, not only is illusion really fun to play but its also the only controller primary that feels more like a bag of tricks n damage instead of holds and immobs.
Moral of tha story don't listen to tools and keep playing your with your illusions cause it's real fun to have 3 indestructable tricks at your summon