And here I was hoping to open this thread and find a philosophically minded academic thesis.
... Well don't look to me for your homework!
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Nor does it need a space. |
Originally Posted by Fourth_NA
What ever doesn't need a -
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(tongue planted firmly in cheek)To topic:
When/If I roleplay, I do my best to understand about what the other person/people is/are talking. (How's that for an over-use of the slash?
)That being said, If somebody is RPing somebody who has poor communication skills and mumbles his/her words, I still try my best to understand... figuring that my character may try his best to understand.
However, if the RPed text is TOO mumbled and I'm struggling TOO hard, then I simply start to ignore it. Not to be rude, but because I'm primarily on here to enjoy myself and spend some time escaping from the "real world" of trying to understand people ALL the time.
I may say "((It's hard for me to make out what you're saying in character.))" and if they reply, "((I'm just playing somebody who mumbles a lot.))" then I'd say, "((Ah, okay...))" and subtly stop role-playing with them... (although I'd continue to team with them, provided they are good teammates).With regards to spelling and grammar on here (or other forums), I try to react the same way. Being a fourth-grade teacher, I admittedly sometimes cringe when I see blatant spelling or grammar errors. Then I realize that I also can be poor at spelling and grammar (especially when it comes to comma usage...that's my bane!) and am a bit more forgiving.
Also, thanks to my profession, I know there are people with disabilities that make it so they CANNOT spell well, or retain knowledge of proper grammar usage. It's when the errors are deliberate and/or a source of laziness ("Why spend all that extra energy to type the two additional letters of 'you' when 'u' works just as well?!") that sometimes rubs me the wrong way.
Other than that, I try to be of the "live-and-let-live" camp.
Edit: Oh...and if I really can't decipher what the author is attempting to say, I simply move on (at least I try to most of the time!), because if it is due to a disability (eg. dyslexia), then publicly calling them on it will most likely NOT help them become a better speller.
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I know some people say that RPing extensively on teams may be a ticket to annoying the others, but so far, it's led to nothing more than tight-nit groups who become genuinely disappointed when someone needs to bow out.
Well said. I almost always try to RP on teams, even pick up teams. Just little throw-away lines (usually in local), just to make it clear I am open to it. It very often ignites RP for the entire time the team is together, not everyone of course, but the one or two role players who just seem to jump at the chance at the invitation.
I highly recommend it - just like you say.
On the rare occasions I venture into D, and I still do from time to time, I have a personal rule to try to avoid spitting out life stories to complete strangers as small talk. I do, however, actively look for more morally inclined conversations I can pipe in on, as I love playing devil's advocate.
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Really?! That's odd, you were the one who was acting as the hero and -you- got booed, not us?
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Originally Posted by ChaosRed
...
It is okay however, to use the D (or any space) to map out other kinds of RP than this though. It doesn't have to be the D of course, but since this is a rare cross-faction space, it can be a convenient location to use. I once delivered a motion to censure an entire country (fictitious of course), directly from the UN to a character at the D. And the boos and cat calls I got privately for doing this were pretty astonishing. ... |
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
Yeah, the "booing" came from two tells, to paraphrase the tells they were essentially:
"Take that drama-queen stuff outside"
"Way to hog the stage ***hole, we were here first"
Both pretty similar to this, but with more spelling mistakes. I think the problem was your team and I invaded a space two others were just chatting in, and they resented this. Since I was normally my "blabby" self in character, I probably got the heat as I was dominating the conversation at the time.
What happens at the D sometimes for me, is social roleplayers get frustrated with dramatic RP. They consider it invasive, they consider it out-of-touch with the festive atmosphere of the bar. They are probably right, its just that the D is a rare cross-faction zone, so it sometimes requires you to use it. It is certainly convenient for that purpose anyway.
Other roleplayers see the D as a swinging-super bar, and some - (not all) use it as a surrogate social life. When you intrude on this atmosphere with a sudden surge of people, dialog and "drama" they can, at times, become resentful.
Most of the time its not an issue, but I seem to draw negative reaction when I roleplay. I seem to get more negative feedback than other roleplayers do. Perhaps my style just sucks, but I have been called names, threatened, even told my *real* mortal soul was in danger because of my roleplay. That "lecture" I got about roleplay being Satanic, and that God would enjoy watching me burn, was perhaps the most entertaining negative reaction to RP I've ever experienced.
Yeah, I just seem to draw them out of the woodwork, I blame fast typing skills and the fact my Zork VERBOSE switch is always turned on.
All I can say is wow...
I mean, if people are using the D to do legitimate socialization, then do what you'd do in real life: when you find someone interesting to talk to, go off and chat in a quiet corner. I see it constantly; small knots of people all over the place having quiet conversations away from the oh-so-popular Blueside bar.
As for the whole satanic thing... Well, I'd take all that "negativity" as back-handed compliments. You know you're playing your character well when people actually begin to worry about you. Lol!
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Well then. I had no idea about that. If my admittedly poor memory serves, I could have sworn that were we by ourselves at the time, then you came in, then some others wondered by when they noticed the scene, but that's sort of moot at this point.|
Originally Posted by ChaosRed
Yeah, the "booing" came from two tells, to paraphrase the tells they were essentially:
"Take that drama-queen stuff outside" "Way to hog the stage ***hole, we were here first" Both pretty similar to this, but with more spelling mistakes. I think the problem was your team and I invaded a space two others were just chatting in, and they resented this. Since I was normally my "blabby" self in character, I probably got the heat as I was dominating the conversation at the time... |
In our case, the Society has had characters who tend to dominate the RP from day one; Agonus at meetings, Count when he's on his game, Eiko when she's in a chatty mood, and several others who joined more recently too. While I've grown to take it in course, I know it's not the case with newer players. Needs to work on that, we do.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
It wasn't SS players sending the tells, just so we're clear. Your group never gave me a hard time.
And I'd say to the other post just above that the surrogate social life players in the D are a vast minority, I'm sure - but alas I think all online games have a small minority of players who use the game to replace a real social life, or worse, the game becomes their lives.
I don't know why people need to tell roleplayers they suck, or are unwelcome, or need to be quiet. There are those that resent RP though, and I seem to antagonize them, probably because I am clearly into it, I clearly type fast and often and because I have this dumb flowery style of purple prose. So its voluminous, quick and pretty purple and cheesy. And so people react and I get told. I don't mind, its part of the culture of gaming.
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Now I can read it. |
Originally Posted by shikraria
Well, like I said before, when your in a battle, and don't have time to spell each and every one correclty, you find an easier way of doing. Like using 'text' words. They are fast and easy. But when you are not in battle or doing something that requires quick nature, yes, peeps should spell and use grammer correctly! But all in all, spelling really shouldn't be as big of an issue as it is!
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What was your original point again?
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Actually, yes. Of course, I've learned to type and spell properly, and can therefore type fast enough that I can kick off an attack, queue up the next attack, type out a short sentence properly and pick up with the fight without missing a beat. If I'm in a situation where I can't do that I don't attempt to say anything at all until I can. I find it's actually more effective to communicate clearly, especially in combat situations, rather than use some form of lazy shorthand and hope that everyone infers my meaning.|
Originally Posted by shikraria
So, your telling me, that when your in the middle of a huge battle, you take the time to spell each word correctly, ect?
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Also, as pointed out previously, most "shorthand" isn't really much, if any, faster to type. Typing "@" instead of "at" saves you zero keystrokes, for instance. Many contractions, like "srsly" actually slow you down if you know how to type, as it's an unnatural word to spell out. I can type "seriously" much faster because I don't have to think about which letters to omit.
Poor spelling indicates you're either illiterate or lazy. Neither is terribly flattering.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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So true.
Originally Posted by Smurch
Many contractions, like "srsly" actually slow you down if you know how to type, as it's an unnatural word to spell out. I can type "seriously" much faster because I don't have to think about which letters to omit.
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Respectfully, I disagree. I've had many students who can read (decode the letters) and comprehend quite efficiently text that is meant for students a couple of grade-levels higher.... but couldn't spell their way out of a paper bag.|
Originally Posted by Smurch
Poor spelling indicates you're either illiterate or lazy. Neither is terribly flattering. |
It's odd, really. If I write:
FRENDSHIP FRIENDSHIP FRIENZSHIP PHRENDSHIP
They could circle the second word as the correct spelling in a heartbeat.
Then, moments later, they'd write "I realy like having a frendship with Amy becaus she is nice."
There are just some people who are not good spellers and it has nothing to do with their intelligence level or an inability to read or write (definition of illiterate).
Now, I will agree that some people are lazy spellers, INTENTIONALLY choosing not to spell words correctly, do u no wat i mean? (often just to save time and precious keystrokes)
Satan trembles when he sees...
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<----- Click there to learn how you can help!
In my experience, the people who use short text don't really know how to type efficiently to begin with. Hence, why they use short text. And I don't say that as a slight against them. Not everyone can type at 80 words a minute.
Personally, I'm of the camp who types far faster spelling properly (or with the intention of spelling the word correctly) than to try to use a form of short hand. It's a skill I take for granted until I see student come in who can't type to save their lives. I thought we were beyond the age of two-finger typing. @_@
Yes, being a bad speller doesn't make you "stupid". It does mean you should be paying attention to what you're reading. I used to be a rather atrocious speller, until I took the initiative to actually focus on the words my spell check keeps picking up. After a while, my spelling improved. At least to the point where I don't butcher words too badly.
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I suspect it's actually a case of learning bad habits rather than a lack of learning. |
Originally Posted by TheNakedNinja
In my experience, the people who use short text don't really know how to type efficiently to begin with. Hence, why they use short text. And I don't say that as a slight against them. Not everyone can type at 80 words a minute.
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I actually only type something around 50 words per minute (with accuracy, that is. I could do 80 with wild abandon and blatant disregard for making any sense whatsoever).
I'm not the best typist in the world. In fact, I am unable to use my pinky and ring fingers to type at all (tendinitis prevents those digits from functioning with that level of precision). I type with just six fingers, three on each hand (including the thumbs) and they're completely in the wrong positions for "correct" typing.
The point is, if *I* can do it, then just about anyone could do it. I've known people who can type with one hand better than I can with two.
Someone who can't be bothered to even make the attempt really shouldn't be surprised when the rest of us can't be bothered to take them seriously.
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| Yes, being a bad speller doesn't make you "stupid". It does mean you should be paying attention to what you're reading. I used to be a rather atrocious speller, until I took the initiative to actually focus on the words my spell check keeps picking up. After a while, my spelling improved. At least to the point where I don't butcher words too badly. |
Right. Exactly.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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To reiterate, if someone consistently does not spell correctly, then they are either illiterate or they are lazy|
Originally Posted by Soundtrack
Respectfully, I disagree. I've had many students who can read (decode the letters) and comprehend quite efficiently text that is meant for students a couple of grade-levels higher.... but couldn't spell their way out of a paper bag.
It's odd, really. If I write: FRENDSHIP FRIENDSHIP FRIENZSHIP PHRENDSHIP They could circle the second word as the correct spelling in a heartbeat. Then, moments later, they'd write "I realy like having a frendship with Amy becaus she is nice." There are just some people who are not good spellers and it has nothing to do with their intelligence level or an inability to read or write (definition of illiterate). |
To be completely frank, your example sounds like they're being lazy. If they can identify the correct spelling of a word, then later misspell the word themselves, that means they didn't proofread what they wrote. If they had, they'd have noticed the incorrect spelling. Because, as you pointed out, they can tell if a word is spelled correctly or not. Once or twice? An excusable typo. But over and over again?
Failure to proofread to the point of a consistent level of misspelling may not be illiteracy, but it's certainly laziness no matter how you slice it.
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| Now, I will agree that some people are lazy spellers, INTENTIONALLY choosing not to spell words correctly, do u no wat i mean? (often just to save time and precious keystrokes) |
With intentional misspellings of that nature, I'd go further than to call it lazy. I'd call it "Willful Ignorance".
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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I do know a few folks with dyslexia, but that usually takes on a different look (and is consistent) and opposed to people who just want to write "ur" instead of "your". When I went to school, there were no computers (except big punch card ones that took up whole rooms), and it was part of the curriculum to learn to type on typewriters and get your wpm up as high as possible. This was especially important if you were female, in those days, since most of your job prospects would include being a secretary. (Yay, no longer true!)
Like someone mentioned, it's faster for me to type out the whole word. It took me 6 months when I first joined CoH to learn what people were saying. The first time I teamed with someone who did short-text, he kept saying "inc". After about the tenth time, I asked him "What does that mean? Are you incorporating?" He explained it meant incoming. (Mind you, I could see the Vahzilok slowly approaching even without his warning.)
I'll do a TF PuG or something with folks who use the shortspeak, but sorry, I don't RP that way, or with anyone using those abbreviations ICly unless they have a supremely tight concept that has them doing so. (Again, it's obvious to me whether someone is lazy or not.)
On the forums, though, where you want to elucidate your point in the best way possible, shortspeak is not great for communicating.
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We all mistakes with the keyboard, with grammar and with spelling.
I think at some point, a little tolerance can actually help RP. It is, after all, a hobby that thrives on collaborating with others. If there is genuine effort in the attempt, I don't see any reason to indict a fellow player, who is simply trying to ignite/maintain a little RP.
My fastest clocked time on the keyboard for accurate typing was 120 words a minute.. I could hit 150 if I didn't care about typos, but that was back when I was 15.. I really don't know if I've gotten faster or slower since then.
However, in my experience, someone who consistantly talks/types in chatspeak is usually less mature and rarely capable of engaging in heavy and/or complex roleplay. To me, it also shows a lack of care towards the roleplay. If you cannot take the time to write a word out properly, can I expect you to take the time to think of quality ideas for the story?
When text fighting, I've never seen anyone use chatspeak to type (even with the dubious reason of lack of time to type). Mind, in the circle I play with, its kind of an unspoken rule to give the other person a chance to answer your attack. Just because I can type faster than my RP friends, doesn't mean I need to launch 10 attacks in the time it takes for them to type one.
My favorite memory was one random chatspeaking person telling me that they were "more michure" than me after a discussion on the need to type things out (this one was so illegible, it wasn't understandable). I walked away laughing from that one and moved on with my day, which probably should be the reaction if you come across someone who's RP style clashes with yours.
Edit: Edited the 3rd paragraph for making no sense...
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Exactly.
Originally Posted by Tayla Ewa
My fastest clocked time on the keyboard for accurate typing was 120 words a minute.. I could hit 150 if I didn't care about typos, but that was back when I was 15.. I really don't know if I've gotten faster or slower since then.
However, in my experience, someone who consistantly talks/types in chatspeak is usually less mature and rarely capable of engaging in heavy and/or complex roleplay. To me, it also shows a lack of care towards the roleplay. If you cannot take the time to write a word out properly, can I expect you to take the time to think of quality ideas for the story?
When text fighting, I've never seen anyone use chatspeak to type (even with the dubious reason of lack of time to type). Mind, in the circle I play with, its kind of an unspoken rule to give the other person a chance to answer your attack. Just because I can type faster than my RP friends, doesn't mean I need to launch 10 attacks in the time it takes for them to type one.
My favorite memory was one random chatspeaking person telling me that they were "more michure" than me after a discussion on the need to type things out (this one was so illegible, it wasn't understandable). I walked away laughing from that one and moved on with my day, which probably should be the reaction if you come across someone who's RP style clashes with yours.
Edit: Edited the 3rd paragraph for making no sense...
As I said before, if you have the ABILITY to write properly, if you have the KNOWLEDGE to write properly, and you still refuse to do so, then you're just being either lazy, or stupid. Or u r usin it 2 mak fun of sumting!111!!!!
Short 'says' in an RP situation are among the worst areas to look for great G&S. The media writes whole articles about how 'good' grammar is being slowly killed by email, text, and tweets, they should look at MMOS for a real shock. The RP environment doesn't encourage writing or spelling properly; to keep people engaged, a relatively quick response is required and does not encourage the multiple revisions needed by some to turn out grammatically great product. Although the process some of you take on simple 'says' does explain a lot. I mean some of you take a hour to say
"I'm pregnant"
"Whose the father?"
"You are <dun dun dah>"
I don't think these mmo speaks can be used as a judge for peoples intellect. Billions of bright, articulate, well educated, folks cannot spell on the fly. Their text messages are odd, they dash of quick Emails that are horrible, I myself get ahead of my hands and think words that somehow never make it to paper. I'm incapable of editing my own work (god knows how many reviews my dissertation went through), I just don't see the errors, so I tend to cut people a break on the mechanics. Ideas though? Quality? Total snob.
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Would you prefer:
Originally Posted by DrJackWolfe
Short 'says' in an RP situation are among the worst areas to look for great G&S. The media writes whole articles about how 'good' grammar is being slowly killed by email, text, and tweets, they should look at MMOS for a real shock. The RP environment doesn't encourage writing or spelling properly; to keep people engaged, a relatively quick response is required and does not encourage the multiple revisions needed by some to turn out grammatically great product. Although the process some of you take on simple 'says' does explain a lot. I mean some of you take a hour to say
"I'm pregnant"
"Whose the father?"
"You are <dun dun dah>"
I don't think these mmo speaks can be used as a judge for peoples intellect. Billions of bright, articulate, well educated, folks cannot spell on the fly. Their text messages are odd, they dash of quick Emails that are horrible, I myself get ahead of my hands and think words that somehow never make it to paper. I'm incapable of editing my own work (god knows how many reviews my dissertation went through), I just don't see the errors, so I tend to cut people a break on the mechanics. Ideas though? Quality? Total snob.
Or:Quote:
Jessica: "I'm pregnant."
Joseph: "Who's the father?"
Jessica: "You are. <dun dun DUN!>"
Or would you rather have:Quote:
Jessica: "im pregnent"
Joseph: "omg whose teh father?"
Jessica: "u are."
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm a terrible writer. Hell, English isn't even my first language. But personally, I'd prefer to RP with Case 3. I can tolerate and may even enjoy Case 1. But I refuse to tolerate Case 2.
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Jessica fidgets a little, looking down at the floor. She didn't know how to explain it. Finally, she look up into his eyes, mumbling with teary eyes. "Joseph...I think I'm pregnant."
Joseph's eyes go wide. He couldn't believe it! He gasps a little and blinks a few times, clearly shocked. "...who is the father, Jessica?"
Jessica looks down at the floor between then again, sniffling once before mumbling in a shy, quiet voice. "...you are."
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Shouldn't that last line be "u r" (if not "ur" or even "u")?
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Jessica: "im pregnent" Joseph: "omg whose teh father?" Jessica: "u are." |
Forum Game: Lower the Rep
Much of the time, my character referencing comes from direct small-talk questions.
Them: "So uh, what brings you to The D?"
Me: "I'm looking for someone."
Them: "Really? Who?"
Me: "... Are you really interested, or are you just making small talk?"
Them: "Yeah, yeah. What's up?"
Me: *regales them with a story*
Them: "Whoa..."
Or...
Them: "Interesting costume... Why do you have a chest plate, but no shirt?"
Me: "It's a bit of an explanation, but I assure you, there's a reason."
Them: "Let's hear it."
Me: *technobabble-filled explanation for costume*
Them: "Whoa..."
Usually, after that, I try to coax them with similar questions, and I quickly run out of interesting things to talk about. I mean ultimately, I'm not the most social "small-talker" in real life, either. So I may indeed be barking up the wrong tree.
Problem with me is while I enjoy roleplaying, and would like to do so consistently, I've yet to connect with a group that gels with my character. A couple of times, I was close, but they wanted me to dump my one-man SG (which is directly a part of the character concept) in favor of joining theirs, and I didn't want to do that.
I dunno. I'd hate to think I'm being too picky about these things, but as an RPer, I don't feel I should be forced to join a group to be a part of the storytelling experience. They may have a story to tell, and it may be group-centric; but so is mine. I do my absolute best to respect that and every aspect of RPing in this game, so I don't think it's unfair to expect the same.
That said, I do enjoy catching some of the soap opera that goes on in Pocket D. And I honestly don't expect epic tales or for every single person to dig down deep and pull some awe-inspiring epiphany out of their capes. But eh, I don't think it hurts to have a story to tell when the obligatory ice-breakers are out of the way. Provided of course, I don't bore you silly...