When did the 5th return to the game proper?
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2009-09-24 04:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
The street fights were added in I16 - not sure if it's linked in some way to GR or not, or if it's just a natural step up from the return of Reichsman in I15.
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They are not back yet until we see them in the newspaper missions and some of the normal missions.
I noticed the 5th beating up Council in Steel last night, boy was that fun to see.
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For some reason I keep seeing random 5th critters standing around on the street with a sizeable chunk of their health gone.
Which implies that they got into a fight with other critters (presumably the Council) and keep winning.
I wish I knew how. Is it better powers, better tactics, or just sheer numbers and attrition?
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From watching a number of skirmishes I'd say minions having access to martial arts and rocket launchers gives them the edge.|
Originally Posted by DKellis
I wish I knew how. Is it better powers, better tactics, or just sheer numbers and attrition?
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The former gives them powerful melee-range attacks that the Council have no equivalent to. The latter provides a far more effective knockdown than shotgun blasts (and only higher-ranking Council get their hands on grenades if I remember correctly.)
Martial arts and a rapid-fire rocket launcher are also the powers used by the newer '5th Column Krieger' bosses (who have the decency to wear sensible pants ^_^.)
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I did the Numina TF the other night, which sent me for the first time in ages up into Boomtown. Normally the council hunt is easy, this time though I struggled to find council, lots of damaged 5th, but not many council. eventually I did see them and when I got close 5th appeared and attacked them making it a race between the 5th and me to see who could arrest them first, the 5th lost that race 
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Somehow, I don't think the 5th were going to arrest them, so it would probably be in the Council's best interest to run toward you.
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Originally Posted by Heart Attack
making it a race between the 5th and me to see who could arrest them first, the 5th lost that race
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Originally Posted by DKellis
I wish I knew how. Is it better powers, better tactics, or just sheer numbers and attrition?
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I hate it when someone tries to steal my spawns....
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Originally Posted by Heart Attack
I did the Numina TF the other night, which sent me for the first time in ages up into Boomtown. Normally the council hunt is easy, this time though I struggled to find council, lots of damaged 5th, but not many council. eventually I did see them and when I got close 5th appeared and attacked them making it a race between the 5th and me to see who could arrest them first, the 5th lost that race
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They're also in spawns in Founders', I was feeling like a jerk a few days ago and kept luring Council and Column mobs into each other sparking more gang wars.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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With the constant battles between the 5th and the Council, Boomtown REALLY looks like a war zone now. I've also seen them slugging it out in Steel, Founders, Striga (just not in the Council base proper, but out by the docks), Brickstown...
And 9 times out of 10, the 5th Column are kicking the **** out of the Council.
Personally, I'd love to see Boomtown slightly modified to work like the "hot spots" in Siren's Call, where a call goes out over the PPD channel or somesuch that the 5th is threatening to spill out of Boomtown and heroes have to go in and lend a hand or something.
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Is it just me, or is the Council spawn always one level lower than the 5th Column spawn that it's fighting?
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I came across a battle in Steal Canyon between 3 level 13 5th Column minions and 2 level 12 Council Minions. That was the only one I took the time to notice, but it does seem the odds are stacked against the Council.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Is it just me, or is the Council spawn always one level lower than the 5th Column spawn that it's fighting?
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Yes, my point is that this seems to be intentional. The 5th are supposed to be making a comeback, not just an uprising. The devs seem to be making it a point to say that this insurrection has potential, and is in the 5th's favor.|
Originally Posted by LordSquigie
I came across a battle in Steal Canyon between 3 level 13 5th Column minions and 2 level 12 Council Minions. That was the only one I took the time to notice, but it does seem the odds are stacked against the Council.
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One level makes a ton of difference. 5th get hit less often and take less damage from Council, but land more hits and hit harder.
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This is a new and all-different 5th Column. They are now socialist and trying to force government run health care on Paragon City. 
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Council have access to Martial Arts, lord knows I've died at the hands of LTs and Bosses often enough thanks to a Thunder Kick or two.|
Originally Posted by Alasdair
From watching a number of skirmishes I'd say minions having access to martial arts and rocket launchers gives them the edge.
The former gives them powerful melee-range attacks that the Council have no equivalent to. The latter provides a far more effective knockdown than shotgun blasts (and only higher-ranking Council get their hands on grenades if I remember correctly.) Martial arts and a rapid-fire rocket launcher are also the powers used by the newer '5th Column Krieger' bosses (who have the decency to wear sensible pants ^_^.) |
The difference maker (besides and level spawn variance) may be that more 5th have the MA stuff than the Council guys, who tend to favor AR style attacks which are generally slower DoT dmg.
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Yes, but none of the minions have access to it.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Council have access to Martial Arts, lord knows I've died at the hands of LTs and Bosses often enough thanks to a Thunder Kick or two.
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The 5th Column minions do.
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Actually, from a lot of the text, it seems the 5th are capturing and recruiting the Council soilders they defeat, as well as performing some experiemnts on some of them - which could be Nictus related, as Reichsman might be out of the loop when it comes to the Nictus, and Requiem mightn't be telling him everything, either becuase he's still sulking at being deposed, or he's planning to cut short Reichsman's time at the top |
Originally Posted by Justice Blues
Somehow, I don't think the 5th were going to arrest them, so it would probably be in the Council's best interest to run toward you.
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Originally Posted by Adelie
The 5th Column came back, sort of, with Oroboros. Then we got access to them in AE. But I now see them on the streets of Brickstown, in the real game world. When did this happen? Is this a prelude to the storyline of Going Rogue?
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- I3 - Council takes over 5th Column. In a sloppy cut-and-paste frenzy, nearly all mentions of the 5th gets replaced in-game by Council. The 5th remain in the game's historical backstory, though, outside of the game.
- 2nd Anniversary (right before I7) - 5th Column Gladiator unlockable
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When the AE came out, I attempted something...
I made a scenario that pit 5th Column forces against various groups. Only against the Council did they have any staying power. The Malta Group and Nemesis Army chewed them up, spat them out, then urinated on the reamins.
When it's even numbers and even levels, it's a coin toss between the Fifth Column and Council. The Council has a slight advantage with their Nictus troops, and when it's even levels and even numbers, only if there are Galaxy troops do they seem to win more easily (slowing down the opposition works wonders apparently).
There is no indication that Requiem has anything to do with this resurgence. While he's mentioned in the Ouro TF/SFs, and makes an appearance in the Cimerora TF/SF, the resurgence of the Fifth in I-15 seems more spurred on by Reichsman's arrival, and Requiem does nothing during the entirety of the adventures.
-->Players have informed me that "Of course the Council doesn't get involved, they're dealing with the Kheldian arc!" I call Bull on this because if the timeframe were determined solely by level range, then the Viridian arc, "The Conference of Evil," couldn't happen. In that arc (which, if the level range/timeframe concept is to be believed, is occurring at the same time as the 45-50 Kheldian arc), the Council is firmly under the control of the Center, who is able to send the people he's wrangled under his control after You to demonstrate whether or not you're a true threat to his organization and to prove to Requiem and Arakhn why they need to stay together.
The story seems massively unfinished. I was hoping to see an expansion or something when I-16 hit, but so far it's just fighting in the streets with the odds programmed in favor of the Fifth. Maybe when Going Rogue or I-17 hits, the odds will be evened out.
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The 5th Column came back, sort of, with Oroboros. Then we got access to them in AE. But I now see them on the streets of Brickstown, in the real game world. When did this happen? Is this a prelude to the storyline of Going Rogue?