City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

So did the AE farm nerfs work?

Agonus

By Agonus,
Posted on: 2009-09-21 05:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
If I want "interesting content" I'd run the story arcs, not a sewer team/radio missions. I don't think you can have it both ways in the low levels...the pace of leveling up is just too quick.
Yeah, you do have an inherent (and frustrating) problem at the low levels with the D&D-ish design of the game. Still, it's not impossible to overcome: The key problem that you have to overcome is that playing at the low levels needs to be more interesting so that you don't feel the urge to level up as quickly to get past that. Obviously, veterans may still want to skip ahead if they've done it a thousand times, but it would help with giving new players a better starting experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorciere View Post
Yeah, you do have an inherent (and frustrating) problem at the low levels with the D&D-ish design of the game. Still, it's not impossible to overcome: The key problem that you have to overcome is that playing at the low levels needs to be more interesting so that you don't feel the urge to level up as quickly to get past that. Obviously, veterans may still want to skip ahead if they've done it a thousand times, but it would help with giving new players a better starting experience.
I think that's in the works for GR.

The problem is that we have to wait til whenever it gets done.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorciere View Post
I may be the odd person out here, but I don't really consider sewer teams to be a noticeable improvement over AE farms. I don't consider either to be a valuable location to spend your early levels on.

But then, my view has been for a while that the low-level game is in dire need of improvements (both where game mechanics and content are concerned).
Exactly. I'm neither a farmer nor a PLer. I've always avoided sewer teams (pre-AE) because every description/invite I read extolled the fast leveling/XP. My thought was: "I don't want to farm or PL; why would I want to do a sewer team?"

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire View Post
First, AE farms never happened on office maps and you know it.
The AE building is an office building.

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The sewers have absolutely none of the safety and ease that AE farms did. Lowbies are on their own without SKing, dying means a long trip back from the hospital, and teams have to learn to work together to survive. They're a proving ground where players learn the hard way, and surprisingly often have a lot of fun doing so.
I've been on a total of one sewer team that faced any kind of 'challenge', and that's because there were a couple of yay-hoos who kept running off down the wrong tunnel and dragging spawns back with them.

Otherwise, a well-run sewer team is about as dangerous as any other kind of organized farm.

Farming is farming, the behavior is the same whether you're doing it in the 'wild' or in the MA building.
If you dislike the behavior in MA it is hypocritical to laud it in the wild.

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Originally Posted by NuclearToast View Post
Because any negative mention of AE must be spiked into the sand without remorse.

--NT
No, because I dislike hypocrisy.

"farming is great as long as it's not that dirty MA building!" is a foolish statement.

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My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
No, because I dislike hypocrisy.

"farming is great as long as it's not that dirty MA building!" is a foolish statement.
Since it was specifically requested not to be done in AE by its creators I don't see any foolishness.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
No, because I dislike hypocrisy.

"farming is great as long as it's not that dirty MA building!" is a foolish statement.
Where did someone say that?

Hyperbole is a good way to show you have a poor arguement.

 

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Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
Where did someone say that?

Hyperbole is a good way to show you have a poor arguement.
exaggeration for effect is an entertaining rhetorical device, as long as it accurately reflects the argument being made.

here's the quote:
Quote:
It made me smile since it'd been forever since I'd seen a sewer team form. Guess people are starting to trickle back to the real game.
Farming in a sewer makes them smile, farming in MA makes them unhappy.

And I don't really have an 'argument' here, I'm just pointing out they hypocrisy of lauding one type of farming while deploring another.

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My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
exaggeration for effect is an entertaining rhetorical device, as long as it accurately reflects the argument being made.
You didn't accurately reflect the argument. You keep ignoring the Developers did not intend for MA to be used as a PL Eden. Obviously, the sewers provide an alternate suorce of leveling for lowbies and introduces players to a game mechanic, street sweeping.

PLing in MA was a different monster all together. Hardly on the same level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
And I don't really have an 'argument' here, I'm just pointing out they hypocrisy of lauding one type of farming while deploring another.
It would be hypocrisy if the person was using MA to farm while belittling others for doing the same.

You can't lump "farming" under one umbrella anymore...there are too many forms (street sweeping, radio missions, merits, tickets, etc etc etc etc).

 

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Originally Posted by Sorciere View Post
Consider, for example, that going through the hero-side tutorial and then following your normal origin contacts arcs from level 1, you will for most origins not gain enough XP to get to level 5 without street sweeping.
Started a new hero last night, I haven't even finished my origin contact and I'm already level 5. No street-sweeping required.

 

Posted

You know what the difference is....


Sewer farming can't take you from 1-50. After level 10 or so you have to move on to new farming grounds. MA can get you from 1 - 50 without leaving a single zone.

Ergo MA is evil.

 

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Sewer farming can take you from 1-50, with the new SSK system. You get XP while exemplared, and the team leader sets up the level for everyone.

 

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Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
Started a new hero last night, I haven't even finished my origin contact and I'm already level 5. No street-sweeping required.
You may have gotten one of the contacts that actually hand out enough missions for level 5. There's at least one origin (possibly two) where it works out.

However, consider this. This was with me cleaning out all the missions completely (several had mobs that you could easily skip by accident).

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorciere View Post
You may have gotten one of the contacts that actually hand out enough missions for level 5. There's at least one origin (possibly two) where it works out.

However, consider this. This was with me cleaning out all the missions completely (several had mobs that you could easily skip by accident).
Do you fight random critters on the street while you run to/from your missions?

That could be one possible explanation.

If I'm running missions on a new lowbie, then I tend to fight any mob (conning green or higher) that is on the way to the mission and the way back to the contact/training/quartermaster.

 

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Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
You didn't accurately reflect the argument. You keep ignoring the Developers did not intend for MA to be used as a PL Eden.
I don't care what their intent is, I deal with reality.
If they can't enforce their intent it's meaningless.

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Obviously, the sewers provide an alternate suorce of leveling for lowbies and introduces players to a game mechanic, street sweeping.
you're REALLY stretching there.

It's too bad the old forums sucked so bad or I could go and hunt up one of the dozens of OMG SEWER FARMS ARE RUINING THE GAME threads that were posted back when they were the cancer that was killing the game.

I wonder what future system the devs will introduce that makes people pine for the wholesome days of MA farming?

Quote:
PLing in MA was a different monster all together. Hardly on the same level.
Farming is farming.
The behavior is identical, only the scale is different.

Quote:
It would be hypocrisy if the person was using MA to farm while belittling others for doing the same.

You can't lump "farming" under one umbrella anymore...there are too many forms (street sweeping, radio missions, merits, tickets, etc etc etc etc).
Farming is farming, it doesn't matter where you do it. PI, DA, MA, the sewers, it's all the same behavior- fast progress via efficient game pathing.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Calash View Post
You know what the difference is....


Sewer farming can't take you from 1-50.

Yes it can.

It becomes inefficient after a certain point so I doubt anyone will do it, but it is absolutely possible.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Haven't set foot in an AE mission in a while, couldn't tell you what it's like on the inside. But! Zone PuGs seems to be a lot more popular these days. So, as far as I am concerned, in that respect the AE farm nerfs worked. ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayla Ewa View Post
On Virtue yesterday, I was running through Atlas to a mish and I saw in broadcast..

"Sewer team forming- 4 spots"

It made me smile since it'd been forever since I'd seen a sewer team form. Guess people are starting to trickle back to the real game.
I've seen and was in Sewer teams from the beginning of AE, but maybe I've been lucky catching them.

Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.

good luck D.B.B.

 

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
Yes it can.

It becomes inefficient after a certain point so I doubt anyone will do it, but it is absolutely possible.
Do the enemies in the advanced sewer section go up to 50? It's been so long since I've been down there.

 

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If they can't enforce their intent it's meaningless.
They did enforce it. Caused a good buddy of mine to cancel his accounts. Doesn't look like he'll ever be back.

Be well, people of CoH.

 

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Originally Posted by MrQuizzles View Post
Do the enemies in the advanced sewer section go up to 50? It's been so long since I've been down there.

Maybe he's talking about how we can get XP while exemplared now? Haven't tested it myself.

Be well, people of CoH.

 

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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
They did enforce it. Caused a good buddy of mine to cancel his accounts. Doesn't look like he'll ever be back.
I'm sorry that tantrum of theirs drove someone off.

I should say, their intent matters only insofar as they impose it on the playerbase.

Relying on intent to keep players in line rather than code leads to the unhappy result you mentioned above.


Adding the carrot of spawn size adjustment to lure farmers out of MA was a smart move. Now all they need to do is get the drop rates fixed.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
Do you fight random critters on the street while you run to/from your missions?

That could be one possible explanation.
No (especially since most of them are at a level above me where this is ineffective), and even then I'd have to have defeated 33 minions (more if I hadn't completely cleared each mission).

Please note that this is not about me. This is not about ways to work around this (I know how to get to level 5 just fine -- these days, if I solo at low levels, I'll generally try to do story arcs in the MA). This is a situation that a new player can find herself in and one that simply should not be allowed to happen. After completing the missions from your initial contact, you should be safely at a level where you can get missions from the next contact, pretty much no matter what. You shouldn't have to work around deficiencies in content design, especially as a new player who doesn't know that they need to be worked around.

 

Posted

I ran a few AE mishes this weekend.

The population in the building was noticeably.... sparse.

After gleaning a mere 150 tix on even the new mishes (post i16), I can understand why. I did manage to get almost 600 tix from one mish, but it's still a far cry from what it used to be.

Still and all, I was able to accomplish my goal of getting the salvage I needed for the purple recipe that was sitting in my pocket... and is now up for sale in WW.

Now, off to run regular content again.

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Originally Posted by Leese View Post
I never really paid attention to AE farms, mostly just avoided Atlas, and never really had trouble finding teams when I wanted one, so I'll ask people who might know...

Have the changes in I16 had the desired effect, (from the devs point of view) of removing AE PL teams, and have you noticed more players leaving Atlas to see the rest of the game?
I think it has been a great step in the right direction.

Atlas broadcast has returned to sewer teams and costume contests - along with "where did everyone go" and "the AE is dead" debates.

Many farmers are fleeing back to Peregrine Island.

Some new players are spinning around in circles in the AE not knowing what to do without the insta-level button.

I've played some AE story arcs that were fun and yielded infl and xp.

The SSK system is great. It is really easy to get a team going when you don't have to worry about who's going to sk who and what is going to happen if a mentor drops out.

It is the first time that I've gone to the Hollows for probably a year and I had a full team going within a 1/2 hour - 45 minutes.

It seems like a win to me.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorciere View Post
This is a situation that a new player can find herself in and one that simply should not be allowed to happen. After completing the missions from your initial contact, you should be safely at a level where you can get missions from the next contact, pretty much no matter what. You shouldn't have to work around deficiencies in content design, especially as a new player who doesn't know that they need to be worked around.
It's not deficiencies.

Zones are created with villains for you to avoid. This gives you a sense of fear of these enemies and, as you level, thrill of victory when you can finally defeat them.

At the low levels, you will pass by mobs that are both too difficult to fight and ones that you can defeat. Picking an choosing your battles is an important skill to learn.

The game isn't about just running head-first into every encounter and neither is life - regardless of what some may say.

If you take time to be alert about your surroundings and plan things out, you can make it from one mission to another.