If I am looking at this correctly I don't think this build is capable of running MG>SM>SL>SM chain.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Apex TF softcap? What number is this referring to? My apologies in advance if this was mentioned earlier, but i only went back a few of the 26 pages.
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Battle Maiden has 64% to hit (as do tip mission Devouring Earth). So you'd need 59% defense to floor her to hit, meaning that 59% is the soft cap for her. I called it the Apex soft cap as a sort of shorthand, I guess.|
Originally Posted by theheat
Apex TF softcap? What number is this referring to? My apologies in advance if this was mentioned earlier, but i only went back a few of the 26 pages.
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There's also the pet soft cap at 70%. I assume that's not relevant here, but I've not run Apex.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
It wasn't, the Apex soft cap refers to the raised to hit base of battle maiden. The regular to hit base for npc enemies is .5, battle maiden's is .64 i believe so in order to decrease her to hit chance to .05 you will need to have 60% defense to all positions. 
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I'm actually not sure if there are any pets in the Apex TF that you would have to worry about.
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Originally Posted by Werner
Battle Maiden has 64% to hit (as do tip mission Devouring Earth). So you'd need 59% defense to floor her to hit, meaning that 59% is the soft cap for her. I called it the Apex soft cap as a sort of shorthand, I guess.
There's also the pet soft cap at 70%. I assume that's not relevant here, but I've not run Apex. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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This is calculating without the Spiritual Alpha Slotted. In Arcanatime -- Smite: 1.042, Siphon Life: 2.062, Midnight's Grasp: 2.202 -- Total Time: 5.306 (6.348 with dual Smite cast for a total attack time), Midnight's Grasp recharges in 5.021 as the longest attack in the chain, Smite in 1.861 which is less than Siphon Life as a whole, and Siphon Life recharges 3.861, which suffices under Smite and MG's coverage. With the Spiritual Slotted, the slack of under-enhancement in each attack will get boosted. MG by 33% up to 99%, SL by 33% up to 60%, Smite by ~10% up to 95-100%? Bit of guesses for those couple of numbers, but should still lower the recharge by several 0.#'s each. So, unless I'm missing something? SM/SL/SM/MG is possible, but I believe it can be taken a step further...|
Originally Posted by Santorican
If I am looking at this correctly I don't think this build is capable of running MG>SM>SL>SM chain.
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If, then, I am looking at this correctly, Smite: 1.042, SL: 2.062, MG: 2.202, Totals 5.306. If I'm recalling the number right, Spiritual grants 33% Recharge? Add an SO's worth to MG drops it down to 4.585 recharge, Siphon Life down to 3.421, and Smite down to 1.81 (which is the least effected power given how far it's already pushed). Longest recharge in the chain is .721/s under the total chain time. So, Smite>Siphon>Midnight, Repeat. If I'm missing something, like miss-recalling how animation time works against the power's own recharge? Even then, 4.585 on MG means Smite>SL>Smite>MG would still indefinitely work because Sm>SL>Sm animates in the time it would take MG to recharge, so no matter what, the chain works? My biggest question is, if I /am/ looking at this right, Sm>SL>MG /can/ work, and is sick.
Edit: Cause I thought it'd be fun to run the numbers. Smite>Siphon>Midnight, one target in AAO only: 179.685 DPS. Full saturated AAO and (Mid's Capped 7) Soul Drain: 322.16 DPS
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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I don't think there are any pets, but what about the tentacles? Are those auto-hit or just really high to-hit?
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Originally Posted by Santorican
I'm actually not sure if there are any pets in the Apex TF that you would have to worry about.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Just a note that MG needs to recharge in 3.3 seconds for that to be gapless... 355% recharge is it?|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
So, Smite>Siphon>Midnight, Repeat.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I don't think there are any pets, but what about the tentacles? Are those auto-hit or just really high to-hit?
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Where did 3.3 Come from? Smite and Siphon's Arcanatime is 3.104 to assume a power isn't recharging during it's own animation (which isn't the case as I can tell), and altogether they're 5.306, and would recharge in 4.585 under Spiritual.|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Just a note that MG needs to recharge in 3.3 seconds for that to be gapless... 355% recharge is it?
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Edit: I just want to make sure /I/ am looking for the right or wrong things, I haven't min-maxed anything in a considerable time, maybe I'm forgetting something.
Edit: As a side note on the build (thinking outloud), I was pretty tired last night and misread the global. The build probably needs another 30ish% to get Hasten down within a few seconds, and regret that may not at all be possible while maintaining 50% Positionals to leave the build a purple off Apex-Worthiness. Right now looking at probably a 20 secondish downtime. :/
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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With Arcanatime, Smite is 1.188, Siphon is 2.112, so 3.3 total. You don't get to add Midnight Grasp's time to that for the reason you cite - a power isn't recharging during its own animation. So Midnight Grasp must recharge in 3.3 seconds for Smite -> Siphon Life -> Midnight Grasp. 15/recharge = 3.3, so recharge = 455% total, or +355% enhancement.
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Where did 3.3 Come from? Smite and Siphon's Arcanatime is 3.104 to assume a power isn't recharging during it's own animation (which isn't the case as I can tell), and altogether they're 5.306, and would recharge in 4.585 under Spiritual.
Edit: I just want to make sure /I/ am looking for the right or wrong things, I haven't min-maxed anything in a considerable time, maybe I'm forgetting something. |
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Autohit in melee, like an aura or something, high tohit with their ranged attack.| I don't think there are any pets, but what about the tentacles? Are those auto-hit or just really high to-hit? |
I still think there's a focus on the wrong things here. Surviving BM or the tentacles hasn't been a problem for me even when "solo" (i.e. team behind/wiped and I'm the only one in the place without any ally buffs), while at the normal softcap (Fire/Shield) or even under (DB/Inv). The only times I die in Apex is when I activate Vengeful Slice in the middle of a blue patch while getting heavy graphic lag resulting in single digit framerates, and no amount of defense improves your FPS or protects against autohit damage.
Doing enough DPS to take out a level 54 AV that forces you to move away from melee is a much, much bigger challenge.
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Those are non positional pure toxic attacks and F those tentacles I hates them lol
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I don't think there are any pets, but what about the tentacles? Are those auto-hit or just really high to-hit?
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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So what have we learned today class? John can't do maths after two days of no sleep. Not sure how, but my times were (obviously) way off, thanks Werner. I looked back again today, just don't know what I did to come under on the formula.|
Originally Posted by Werner
With Arcanatime, Smite is 1.188, Siphon is 2.112, so 3.3 total. You don't get to add Midnight Grasp's time to that for the reason you cite - a power isn't recharging during its own animation. So Midnight Grasp must recharge in 3.3 seconds for Smite -> Siphon Life -> Midnight Grasp. 15/recharge = 3.3, so recharge = 455% total, or +355% enhancement.
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Edit: This also means the Sm/SL/Sm/MG is shy .1/s just to be politically correct on Midnight. But after digging around the forums for Arcana's post on Arcanatime and running into another one talking about undetermined server/attack delays, .1/s is over-all a lot more damaging to the build. I'll have to look at it again, now that I'm more awake.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
With the Rare spiritual as that gives 45% recharge I am what seems to be like 1 second away from permanent hasten.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I guess I'm going back to my Dark Melee/Shield scrapper.
As I noted in my 'double XP weekend' thread, I looked, and looked. Dare I say it? Dare I say that DM/Shield is so far, IMHO, the most 'powerful' feeling scrapper?
I'm sure that will P.O. some folk who love their toons, and maybe rightfully so. I have played just above every combo I can think. Every primary -except- KM to at least 30, if not 40 or even 50. Some have different 'angles' or surivivability, or trickster type doofus stuff. But for RAW power, with a dose of survivability, I still can't beat my DM/Shield.
I did try a Shield tank and I don't like it nearly as much. To me it is a beautiful scrapper tool. But that being said I really, really did try to like something else. And after 2 days of grinding up toons that I hadn't tried, I really just confirmed the DM/Shield guy. I think you can even make a 'so-so' DM/Shield build and it's going to do very respectable.
I really haven't chased incarnate stuff with my scrapper. To be honest I have blown will into 2 billion hard earned influence on my Blaster, but not my scrapper. So now I'm looking at the best route to go (minus purples as usual, because I just get those, when... I get them.)
So I'm back to tweaking this guy, but I'm now somehow going to shoot for 50% and above defense on positional stuff.
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
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Well that depends on what your definition of "powerful" is. If you mean you're able to spank 95% of AVs on your own yeah you're about right, if it means wiping out entire spawns in one kapow I wouldn't peg Dark/Shield for that. Electric/Shield does a great job of that.
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Originally Posted by _Elektro_
I guess I'm going back to my Dark Melee/Shield scrapper.
As I noted in my 'double XP weekend' thread, I looked, and looked. Dare I say it? Dare I say that DM/Shield is so far, IMHO, the most 'powerful' feeling scrapper? I'm sure that will P.O. some folk who love their toons, and maybe rightfully so. I have played just above every combo I can think. Every primary -except- KM to at least 30, if not 40 or even 50. Some have different 'angles' or surivivability, or trickster type doofus stuff. But for RAW power, with a dose of survivability, I still can't beat my DM/Shield. I did try a Shield tank and I don't like it nearly as much. To me it is a beautiful scrapper tool. But that being said I really, really did try to like something else. And after 2 days of grinding up toons that I hadn't tried, I really just confirmed the DM/Shield guy. I think you can even make a 'so-so' DM/Shield build and it's going to do very respectable. I really haven't chased incarnate stuff with my scrapper. To be honest I have blown will into 2 billion hard earned influence on my Blaster, but not my scrapper. So now I'm looking at the best route to go (minus purples as usual, because I just get those, when... I get them.) So I'm back to tweaking this guy, but I'm now somehow going to shoot for 50% and above defense on positional stuff. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Here is another iteration of my ATF build. With the very rare I will be at the new soft cap
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...87FD0FBCF2CF0A
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Yay! New Mids'!|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Here is another iteration of my ATF build. With the very rare I will be at the new soft cap
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...87FD0FBCF2CF0A |
Oh, and good job getting the build to 59%+ defense. Yeah, that too.
Looks like you tuned for 95% against +4s without Tactics, which I guess is one of the "side" benefits of Nerve, and then you have Tactics available when necessary.
You could put a stealth IO in one of your prestige sprints, which would I think get you full invisibility. I have that on my Katana/Dark, and it's occasionally useful.
Siphon Life makes me a sad panda. Hmmm, if you can find a slot, a full set of Eradication in Shadow Maul is half the battle. Could drop the heal from Health. You lose a little regeneration, but if you can properly slot Siphon Life, that's much better than some regeneration. That's not enough, though. Still need to find another bonus somewhere. The Cloud Senses proc looks like an easy sacrifice to get a slot. Could slot a full set of Red Fortune in Battle Agility. You lose some DPS, some hit points and 3% resistance, which are all things you don't want to lose. However, now you can do the "standard" slotting in Siphon Life and nearly double your healing rate. I think the benefits of keeping your hit points topped off may outway the benefits of the hit points and resistance even when we're talking about spike damage (you won't want to burn a green every time you get hit, after all).
We can get a little of the DPS back by putting the Hecatomb damage instead of damage/recharge in Shadow Punch, which I can't imagine needs to recharge that fast. Then stick the damage/recharge in Siphon Life instead of one of the standard Nucleolus, because lord knows you'll almost never need all that accuracy with the Nerve boost. That'll get back at least some of the spammability of Siphon Life that we lost when we dropped the Mako's set. We could do it again with a Crushing Impact damage/recharge. We lose a little bit of damage and of course accuracy, but add more spammability, so it seems like a good trade.
Hmmm, losing the accuracy from Scirocco's Dervish now requires Tactics against +4s. Well, hopefully the endurance reduction on Siphon Life and Battle Agility will cancel out the endurance increase on Shadow Maul and running Tactics. Probably won't, but it shouldn't be too bad. Not sure if you were sustainable and just barely, though.
Well, there are some downsides, but it's at least arguable that having Siphon Life slotted for healing is worth the sacrifices, and at least the soft cap wasn't one of the sacrifices. Something to consider, anyway, and hopefully there's a better way to accomplish what I was after here without so many sacrifices. Those were just the first opportunities I spotted.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I like those changes, but my endurance consumption makes me cringe, o well I'll just have to carry a bunch of insps for this TF...... 
When I'm not fighting BM I think I'll shut off tactics and GC so I can maximize my recovery.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
You know I'm really glad that I've retired most of my characters otherwise it'd take me forever to afford any of these builds lol.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
This is going to be my regular build, it will be able to go down to L27 and keep a soft cap, I will be using the Spiritual Core Paragon AS.
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...95FD038F17D250
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I never did post the "59%" build when I mentioned I'd looked into it, interesting to see a lot of the same paths taken, but some others that may help lead to other solutions. With Mid's now having the Incarnate added, seeing the build spark up to just shy of 60%, it was closer than I had thought. While I didn't get Siphon Life into a good healing position, I still tried to get as much resistence as I could, with SL as an afterthought to try and fix. But, maybe this will help spark additional ideas.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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I was just thinking about the same thing. I have one blaster I spend most on.... then I got my DM/Shield scrapper.... it's insane how expensive some things are and we're talking moving the needle a few percentage points as a result.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
You know I'm really glad that I've retired most of my characters otherwise it'd take me forever to afford any of these builds lol.
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I have a 30's tank I'd like to revisit, but I basically 'stripped' all my other 50's to keep my scrapper rolling....
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
So, Santorican, I'm blaming the last ...two hours (?) or so of my night on you and this whole "Solo Apex" idealism of yours. While mentioned, Stealth isn't going to get you to your 60%, the value it provides is greater (in my opinion) than Hover. Their enhanceable trades are the same, but Stealth's initially higher defense value could potentially be sufficient for your attempt since (although the value will drop) you'll still get that boost for Alpha's. I toyed with multiple directions, and there's really no source to pull enough defense from to build up that high within reason. 55-56% with Stealth at half mast was the furthest I was seeing.
Edit: Went back and ran some figurative numbers in my head. If you run Stealth dual Enzymes, and the Nerve Core, you'd roughly manage 2% (hopefully) putting you around 58.5-59%. Grab Smoke Flash and play Super-Stalker if necessary for reapplication of Stealth from time to time. So feasibly very close.
However, I fiddled with mid's for so long that I've churned out something that has me amused. 50% Positionals, and with the usage of the Spiritual, I believe should be (close to) perma-Hasten, double stacked AD into the 90's, Soul Drain with only a 5-8 second downtime, and more than capable of the Smite>SL>Smite>MG chain. I could be wrong, it is rather late, but it might even manage SL>Smite>MG. Shaved as much EPS off as I could manage, S/L Resists up to ~38%. Might not be ready for a Solo-Apex, but I know offhand it's heavier than anything I built pre-inherent Fitness.