When I see someone roll a Traps defender I'll let you know. 
Yeah, I know, right?
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I rolled one; i'd be playing it, except that I need to okay some *RP* stuff with my SG leader, since it's a reroll of a character whom they actually kicked the backside of the boss of and they probably have some issues there, ICly..
I'll let you know though.
A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."
See my thread about the traps/son mids build I made. Traps is certainly not lacking.
It won't be popular though, it has no green and it doesn't play nice with fast moving teams.
But for anyone looking to crush solo/small team, walk through AV's and even solo GM's - traps is great.
that said, I'm not sure I'll ever roll a traps fender. I'm just finishing up my fire/traps corr (48) and suspect I'll be traps'd out for a bit. I'd proly want to do a thugs/traps before a traps fender too. I've got a mids build that has softcapped s/l/e, ranged, and aoe def and all my pets are softcapped to... well just about everything.
I really can't see traps every being a decent set for defenders, ever.
Feel free to prove me wrong though, I normally love the traps set (on my corrupter and mastermind), but I just can't see it being useful on a defender.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I was thrilled with the Science pack cuz I finally got payback on the creepy guy that kept trying to ERP with my tween heroine, by hitting the costume change and turning into a 10' tall monstrous escaped prisoner and telling him, "You gots a real purty mouf, now bendover and squeal like a pig fo yo daddy, cuz you my little puppy now!" Haven't seen him since.
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I put peoples concepts before fast paced teams. Sub 45 min STFs aren't hard once you have a team specced for it. In fact I prefer to not rinse and repeat stuff so having to team with new sets all the time helps to make things a bit more interesting. For a defender it will suffice. The main thing is that their is potentially enough team survivability attainable using some dynamic or other.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
My trapster went from 1 to 9 as smooth as silk. agent moonchild's only speedbump was that Freedom was kicking everyone on our team when we tried to enter missions. Ran the sewers all the way to KR, and when she logged back in after midnight got a team. Played a few missions and everyone loved the FFG so much she got an SG invite
Traps is going to be fine. All I need is caltrops, FFG, acid mortar, and PGT. Every team loves it after they've played a few mishes with a trapster
my 2 inf
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
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Having a both a bots/traps MM and a defender, I can see the potential for pretty good synergy with the traps primary and defender secondaries. At the same time, I don't see how the defender secondaries can even come close to comparing with the firepower put out by 6 fully slotted bots.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Poison trap needs to eliminate the ability for procs yet still spawn as many gas clouds as it originally did in issue 6.
I am no expert on this though - any opinions on the set and any insights to the changes to it now as a defender set? |
Actually, given a choice, I'd rather choose one of the original defender primaries and have the traps as a secondary, even though the traps powers would come a bit later than they do as a primary power.
Having said all this, I could see a traps defender as being fun to play. I've had a lot of fun playing traps with an MM redside with very little problem even in the fastest moving teams, and I'd probably have just as much fun with a traps defender blueside.
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Unless they changed something for defenders i wouldnt call 25 feet radius small
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Originally Posted by JayboH
The ff generator has a very small radius, although the pain dom heal aura is smaller I guess. |
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I dunno, the only thing it doesn't do is direct heals, but I guess that would disqualify it as a defender for some people |
Originally Posted by CaffeineAddict
I really can't see traps every being a decent set for defenders, ever.
Feel free to prove me wrong though, I normally love the traps set (on my corrupter and mastermind), but I just can't see it being useful on a defender. |
My quick take on traps is that it'll be a lot like having a /devices blaster on a team. Maybe one fight in 500 it'll be the perfect thing for the job, the rest of the time, just scrambling to keep up with the team.
Defender Traps is a pretty awesome set, and quite a few of the powers that were bumped up for the Defender mods are actually more powerful than they should be. It puts a lot of the other sets to shame with what it offers Defenders. Poor, poor Trick Arrows is kind of sad looking next to Traps.
I don't see what will make it a terrible set for teams. It will offer a large radius of 20ish defense to all once slotted, over 50% -Resistance with the easily stackable Acid Mortar, over 50% -Damage if both Seeker Drones hit, along with 12.5% -ToHit, and Poison Trap, which despite the complaining about what it can't do anymore, is still a powerful control.
Also, procs were not the problem with Poison Trap, they were just the most obvious effect of the problem they wanted to get rid of: the multiple clouds. The devs don't care that your power on a 90 second timer could instantly wipe out a group of minions at once, they cared that it could nearly perma hold AND damage large groups of bosses and even EBs and AVs. So asking them to remove proccing and buff some other aspect probably won't get you very far. If you want to see Poison Trap buffed, you need to prove it's underperforming. And honestly, eventhough it's nothing like how it used to be, it probably still outperforms a lot of similar powers
Deploy Seeker Drones from far away to soak up the alpha, then fly in and toebomb Poison Trap and Acid Mortar. Traps is only a poor team set if you want to play it with poor set-and-pull tactics.
I really want to make one, but I'm waiting for Pistols.
Currently level 9 sonic/traps(turned xp off so i wont outlevel atlas safeguard by mistake)
Its pretty awesome, ffg is huge with mez protection at level 8. Acid mortar + howl is pretty funktastic.
Works great in teams and solo so far.
Currenlty looking forward to see how the rest of of the powers turns out.
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I just can't see where TA comes out sad looking next to Traps.|
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
Defender Traps is a pretty awesome set, and quite a few of the powers that were bumped up for the Defender mods are actually more powerful than they should be. It puts a lot of the other sets to shame with what it offers Defenders. Poor, poor Trick Arrows is kind of sad looking next to Traps.
I don't see what will make it a terrible set for teams. It will offer a large radius of 20ish defense to all once slotted, over 50% -Resistance with the easily stackable Acid Mortar, over 50% -Damage if both Seeker Drones hit, along with 12.5% -ToHit, and Poison Trap, which despite the complaining about what it can't do anymore, is still a powerful control. Also, procs were not the problem with Poison Trap, they were just the most obvious effect of the problem they wanted to get rid of: the multiple clouds. The devs don't care that your power on a 90 second timer could instantly wipe out a group of minions at once, they cared that it could nearly perma hold AND damage large groups of bosses and even EBs and AVs. So asking them to remove proccing and buff some other aspect probably won't get you very far. If you want to see Poison Trap buffed, you need to prove it's underperforming. And honestly, eventhough it's nothing like how it used to be, it probably still outperforms a lot of similar powers Deploy Seeker Drones from far away to soak up the alpha, then fly in and toebomb Poison Trap and Acid Mortar. Traps is only a poor team set if you want to play it with poor set-and-pull tactics. I really want to make one, but I'm waiting for Pistols. |
On the buff side of things, a high quality tool like FF generator is definitely a big edge vs TA which has, um, nothing.
When it comes to debuffs though, I think the 90-second recharge times are a major liability. Compared to acid and disruption arrows, acid mortar and poison traps just aren't going to be around when you need them nearly as often on large teams that move somewhat quickly from fight to fight.
At tier 8/9, I think oil slick and EMP arrow are vastly more useful than mines and time bomb.
The rest of the powers are kind of a grab bag that gives no overwhelming advantage to one set over the other.
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True, but AM's tend to be quite robust and, with haste, will last long enough for a second one to be up before the first one has expired. It's one of the few 'pet' powers that more than one can be up.|
Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet
When it comes to debuffs though, I think the 90-second recharge times are a major liability. Compared to acid and disruption arrows, acid mortar and poison traps just aren't going to be around when you need them nearly as often on large teams that move somewhat quickly from fight to fight.
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There's also a tactical method of extending the life of the AM as the party moves - team teleport, which although useful for an MM may not be as useful for a traps defender.
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In that case it's fine for longer, static fights. In situations where a team finishes with a group fairly fast and moves on to the next one, there's an AM sitting at the spot of the previous fight debuffing nothing while you're at the next one waiting for it to recharge.
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Originally Posted by perwira
True, but AM's tend to be quite robust and, with haste, will last long enough for a second one to be up before the first one has expired.
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TA has very few advantages over Traps. The two biggest are EMP Arrow and range. Everything else TA can do is outdone pretty easily by Traps. The fact just 1 Seeker Drone is the equivalent of Flash Arrow and and just short of Poison Gas Arrow's debuff value is pretty sad, and then you throw in a second Seeker Drone and it's even worse.
Then there's Acid Mortar, which completely outshines Acid Arrow in every aspect except recharge time... and you can have two out. At its best, TA can cause -60% resistance to 10 enemies at once, while Traps can do -53.34% to 16, and for way less endurance at that.
Oil Slick Arrow and Trip Mine are about on equal footing, as OSA is streaky and Trip Mines are interruptible, but Trip Mine wins with its incredibly short (by comparison) recharge.
I mean, the only thing TA can do that Traps absolutely cannot do is... drain endurance with EMP Arrow, and the only debuff values TA puts out that are higher are -Res (by about -6%) and -Speed.
And then Traps gets defense, mez protection, and some regen.
TA isn't a poor set, it just looks meager next to Traps.
I'd say Traps and TA are pretty much the same thing.
Both are offensively-oriented debuff/control sets that can also crank out some damage.
The only major difference is that TA is ranged and Traps is more up close and personal. All in all, I'd expect the two to play together exceptionally well and look forward to putting more Trappers into play.
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to roll one up on Live yet as my vid card died yesterday. Oh well, got a fix set so I'm hoping to hit it up tonight. Can't decide what secondary though.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
If I ever retire my Dark/Traps corruptor, I will roll a Traps/ defender. Im definitely looking forward to teaming with a few traps/defenders.
Its an active set, even on a large team. Trickshooter already described the perfect steamrolling team strategy. I also bring out the triage beacon at the beginning of a tough fight, spam web grenade on bosses and higher for the recharge and use caltrops as a control. Trip mines are about the only power I rarely use on a team, but they are amazing solo.
My Characters
Poison trap is still a really good power, just different than it used to be. Unless your team is really fast a decent traps build will have PT up every spawn, which means an aoe mag 3 hold every spawn. It's like having Flash (aoe hold) up every spawn, but then you slot it with a lockdown +hold proc and it then sort of works like volcanic gases over time too. It also flatlines AV regen (as in 0 hp/sec).
Seeker drones are a hidden gem. Ya if you have a decent damage sponge they are generally unnecessary, but for all those people that have ever cast their troller pet (singy, or pooman for instance) to break up an alpha that is exactly what seekers are designed to do.
Mez protection +21% def to all. I think FF users might be jealous 
Decent -res/-def up every spawn except on extremely fast teams (which means difficulty is set too low, or your -res is unnecessary anyway). And extreme -res in tough encounters.
If traps isn't working well for you in a team it is because of you, not because of traps. Now I'm not saying it is the best teaming set, not by a long shot, but it can keep up in teams if YOU can keep up in teams.
Finally, in another thread I posted a non-gimp traps/son with softcapped def to every position and every damage type possible. Think about the build flexibility that implies for a second. Seriously, I don't think there is another set in the game with that kind of flexibility. It is so easy to build a massively survivable traps def that can just go full tilt in every scenario that it is a bit upsetting for toons like my storm/sonic, that can be insanely powerful, but usually has to hold back due to survivability issues, or at best has to wait for a "tank" to gather the agro before I can unleash. That gets old fast. I don't like being babysat.
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Tack on stealth and/or superspeed (+stealth IO) and you're not only highly survivable but also for all intents and purposes invisible even during battle while you're not doing any other attacks. None of the traps draw aggro back to the character, although the FF generator and the mortar (as well as the drones) will themselves draw aggro.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
If traps isn't working well for you in a team it is because of you, not because of traps. Now I'm not saying it is the best teaming set, not by a long shot, but it can keep up in teams if YOU can keep up in teams.
Finally, in another thread I posted a non-gimp traps/son with softcapped def to every position and every damage type possible. Think about the build flexibility that implies for a second. Seriously, I don't think there is another set in the game with that kind of flexibility. It is so easy to build a massively survivable traps def that can just go full tilt in every scenario... |
I've got to try the defender trap combination sometime, already experienced with traps in a bots/traps combination with an MM.
And as you say, with such a variety of IO sets, the Mids build possibilities for survivability and capability capping are almost endless.
Level 21 now sos´s in 6 bars and i freaking love this toon. Feels awesome to play.
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To be fair, a well aimed Disruption Arrow is handy on Hamidon Raids. Situational, but really nice when the situation comes up.|
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
I mean, the only thing TA can do that Traps absolutely cannot do...
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And, fair disclosure, I'll probably roll Traps/Energy sometime this week.
P.S.: How many Traps can be used while hovering somewhat close to the ground? How many Traps can be used while hovering far off the ground?
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IOs let virtually any build be survivable--if you choose to build that way. This defintiely includes storm.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Finally, in another thread I posted a non-gimp traps/son with softcapped def to every position and every damage type possible. Think about the build flexibility that implies for a second. Seriously, I don't think there is another set in the game with that kind of flexibility. It is so easy to build a massively survivable traps def that can just go full tilt in every scenario that it is a bit upsetting for toons like my storm/sonic, that can be insanely powerful, but usually has to hold back due to survivability issues, or at best has to wait for a "tank" to gather the agro before I can unleash. That gets old fast. I don't like being babysat.
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I can only imagine the multitude of threads on the subject as I have been away a bit, and I typically avoid the defender forum as I find it more acidic than any other AT forum...
What is the word on Traps? I can't imagine many would play this to be a good defender on a team. Did they give a pass to all the pets in this set? I would assume the mortar, mines, triage beacon, seekers, would have higher numbers than corruptors and mms but still, this has always been more of a solo set IMO. The ff generator has a very small radius, although the pain dom heal aura is smaller I guess. This set is to be treated like TA and go super heavy on recharge no matter what.
Poison trap needs to eliminate the ability for procs yet still spawn as many gas clouds as it originally did in issue 6.
I am no expert on this though - any opinions on the set and any insights to the changes to it now as a defender set?
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom