Me too!
Move hide down the line? Hell, I want a Scrapper with Hide too!
Me too!
It wouldn't be Hide, it would be a generic stealth power. Since scrapper stealth cap is only 571 feet (as opposed to the stalker stealth cap of 1143 feet) having Hide would do no good at all, since it could not get any better than 571 feet.
They'd also have to replace caltrops with something else because it is available in the Weapons pool.
Other than those two points, yes I would like Ninjitsu for scrappers as well.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
This really isn't going to be a interesting thread due to the lack of disagreement it will have. Some one should invite some die hard stalker players to come put in their two inf on this with all their whining, b****ing, and moaning about how scrappers get everything and stalkers get shafted.
Won't be getting any objections from me. The pure enjoyment and mass skipables and easy/cheap def soft capping that is /nin in the hands of a scrapper... I wouldn't touch another scrapper def set. Everything from that moment on would be */nin. I am so serious.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Make hide a +perception, +stealth power that doesn't inhibit movement and put it at 20 - call it Kujin-to. In Ninjitsu the To syllable of Kuji in represents harmony. Through meditation, you can achieve complete harmony with your surroundings.
Replace Caltrops with a pbaoe version of Trick Arrow's Flash Arrow (-perception, -tohit non-aggro aoe) and call it "Flash Bomb."
Voila! Ninjitsu for scrappers.
EDIT - oh, and remove the +perception from Danger Sense, since you're getting it in Kujin-To. Forgot about that.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Those are pretty cool changes. I think I'd have to play that.
Be well, people of CoH.
Look at that. It got intresting and no whiners needed.
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Doesn't nin already have blinding powder? It even has confussion effects.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Replace Caltrops with a pbaoe version of Trick Arrow's Flash Arrow (-perception, -tohit non-aggro aoe) and call it "Flash Bomb."
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"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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I'd thought of that before I posted.|
Originally Posted by Rieze
Look at that. It got intresting and no whiners needed.
Doesn't nin already have blinding powder? It even has confussion effects. |
Blinding Powder is a ranged cone that does confuse, sleep and -perception. Different enough, I think from a pbaoe -tohit that also happens to have -perception to merit the duplicated effects.
It's the -tohit that I would want.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Me three.
You could just use Cloaking Device and Smoke Grenade from Blasters, as Hide and Smoke Flash respectively. Flash Arrow is really just Smoke Grenade anyway. (Adjusted for Blaster modifiers instead of Defenders -- actually, a bit better even than that)
As for Caltrops, well, they could go the Energize route and make Ninjitsu Caltrops "better than Caltrops", or maybe make Smoke Grenade the replacement for Caltrops and make Smoke Flash a sort of PBAoE disorient.
Another possibility, if indirect, would be to replace Caltrops with Quickness. Instead of making the foe(s) slower, you make yourself faster.
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The only problem with that being a PBAoE is that how do you get close enough to use it with just regular stealth? If you use it before you get into melee, though, you should be able to get as close as if you had Hide. (The same goes for Blinding Powder)
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Replace Caltrops with a pbaoe version of Trick Arrow's Flash Arrow (-perception, -tohit non-aggro aoe) and call it "Flash Bomb."
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::shrugs:: I suppose scrappers do what they do with other stealth powers; take super speed or a stealth IO. |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
The only problem with that being a PBAoE is that how do you get close enough to use it with just regular stealth? If you use it before you get into melee, though, you should be able to get as close as if you had Hide. (The same goes for Blinding Powder)
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Shouldn't really be an issue, if the radius is left alone. If 35 feet is too big then bring it in line with Dark Regeneration from DA and make it 20 feet.
Use Kujin-To to stealth just outside their perception range, use flash bomb, go to melee range, use soul drain (if dm, as I'd plan to be) then shadow maul. Win.
But I'm thinking a short enough activation/recharge and a long enough duration to use it in battle and keep a perma tohit debuff going.
If you have to learn to use it, then all the better to keep it from being overpowered.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
With widows, mask presence was meant to be used with smoke bomb. (It says it in the power description. Even though everyone skips that power and gets a stealth IO to stack with mask presence). I'm sure that would be the same case with a /nin scrapper. A stealth power
- smoke bomb combo.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
I almost don't *care* what they do to hide/caltrops. I just want the freedom to make an 'evasive' style character concept whose build isn't tighter than most heroes' spandex. I *like* being able to take all the attacks that I want, or maybe even some epic powers. Once Ninjitsu is ported to scrappers, I'll never make another SR again. Between the in-set heal and tricks, I'll finally be able to dispense with the #*&&^@*& fighting pool.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
I haven't really looked at Nin seriously because I can't do stalkers. What does SR have over it? Better DDR? More scaling dam-res?
Be well, people of CoH.
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Nin gets its def with two toggles. Has a click mez res that has psi res built in (non enhancable). Has DDR. No scaling res but has a reconstruction clone (Enhancable toxic res). Has an elude clone, caltrops, blinding powder, and a pbaoe placate power. The three utility powers are normaly skiped. The elude clone ,of course, is skipped by soft cappers. So that's 4 skipable powers without gimping.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I haven't really looked at Nin seriously because I can't do stalkers. What does SR have over it? Better DDR? More scaling dam-res?
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Its hard to skip stuff with SR except for elude. SR has better DDR, though. I think the self heal and the bag of tricks in nin makes up for that.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Just looking at Stalkers:
SR has more defense debuff resistance, higher defense totals, and some resist albeit scaling higher as your health goes down. Quickness is the only realistically skippable besides tier 9 but who would be crazy enough to do that?
Nin has a self-heal, only 3 other powers out of the set (besides the self-heal) that would be considered "must take" making a much looser build than SR, and only has resistance to Psi (click mez protect) and toxic (self-heal). Caltrops, Blinding Powder and Smoke Flash are all utility powers; take them if they fit your playstyle/ concept.
Both have the exact same tier 9. Both have a click mez protect power. Although Nin has a KB hole in its protection but does have the ability to slot the Steadfast +def in its self heal.
KB hole, huh? While 2 KB protection IOs is fine for most of the game, it's not enough against Pylons, Nemesis staff and a few other bits of nasty out there.
Still, though... DM/Nin with two self heals and other toys? Nice.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I keep forgetting about the no knockback protection. A minor setback. The def values are lower as well. I was thinking in the end game with soft cap def and all IO sets slotted. Most likely helped along with two sets of botz thus taking care of the KB hole. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Body
Just looking at Stalkers:
SR has more defense debuff resistance, higher defense totals, and some resist albeit scaling higher as your health goes down. Quickness is the only realistically skippable besides tier 9 but who would be crazy enough to do that? Nin has a self-heal, only 3 other powers out of the set (besides the self-heal) that would be considered "must take" making a much looser build than SR, and only has resistance to Psi (click mez protect) and toxic (self-heal). Caltrops, Blinding Powder and Smoke Flash are all utility powers; take them if they fit your playstyle/ concept. Both have the exact same tier 9. Both have a click mez protect power. Although Nin has a KB hole in its protection but does have the ability to slot the Steadfast +def in its self heal. |
What I like about utility sets like /nin is the fact that you get to open your build to more choices and still not gimp the build. Look at how tight /SR, and /WP are vs /FA, /DA, and /regen. I'd say /invul and /SD are a toss up depending who you ask. You could also throw DM in as a loose one depending on your secondary.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Heh. You want to start some srsbzns in the stalker forum post a new topic about /nin being better than /sr (or /sr being better than /nin - doesn't matter which).
I'm big on utility, and a DM/Nin would be a monster even with a kb hole, but I really like not having to wait 35 levels to get any meaningful AoE defense.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
BS/Nin scrapper or a stalker? :/
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Oh gosh no. We get enough of that every other month with /WP and /Regen. Don't need any more /set is better then /set threads.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Heh. You want to start some srsbzns in the stalker forum post a new topic about /nin being better than /sr (or /sr being better than /nin - doesn't matter which).
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"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
You think as a ninja you'd be able to withstand being knocked down or completely dodging it lol.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Was in PvP once with my Ninja Stalker Bokken.. the lack of KB actually saved me. I TPed on a roof, Stealth gone, got hit with KB knocking me off the roof and to safety.
I don't mind being knocked back once in a while, being a big time comics fan, when someone got knocked back it meant that was one powerful hit and the fight was just getting serious... makes it more exciting for me!
I don't do crazy stuff on my Stalker though, I save that for my Scrappers, which if I ever got /Nin would be a great day. [Oh and I actually made use of the utility powers when I played him]
50's: Heroes: Ozmeth DB/WP; Black Decker DM/Regen; Shado-Strike DM/SR Scrapper (13 AV soloed); Desert-Shock Claws/Elec Scrapper; Shado-Shriek Dark/Son Def
Villains: Bokken Nin/Nin
Current project(s):
dm/nin stalkers are scary good,
You can actually "scrap" with those.
Their lower hit points are the only difference.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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I wouldn't change much of anything, basicly just move Hide down the line a bit.