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That is a valid point. I don't know how bad the comments get, the worst I have got is being called an idiot. I imagine some people like to go a lot further than that.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
It serves one purpose.
The truly stupid that leave actual insults can be plucked out by the mods and removed from the forums permanently. The comments are only anonymous to us. |
You're quite right, Bill, I should have noted that I was pleased you had the courtesy to sign your comment.
That said, I do not believe I have EVER deserved any of the negative rep, and I certainly haven't ever deserved the insults. My problem is that I often don't agree with the "party line," and I'm not one of those that will capitulate at the first sign of resistance. I never instigate any namecalling or any other hostile behaviour, other than simple disagreement. Some people here can't tolerate that I refuse to submit meekly, and I suffer abuse for it.
Now, with the rep system, they can abuse me in complete anonymity. I've reported these kinds of comments, and I've turned off my rep because I grew tired of recieveing them and tired of reporting them. It's a system that creates far more animosity than anything else.
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Hell, I've been neg repped for being a member of the Forum Cartel |
Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
I've been neg-repped for thinking there should be a method of gaining power post-50 other than IOing out.
I've been neg-repped for pointing out the flaws in the SSK system, and posing a system to change it that would fix those flaws, and has been tweaked and worked to avoid adding any new flaws or returning old flaws. I've been neg-repped for being a PLer. Infact to quote "PLer, PLer, go away; come back never." Which is after I pointed out that in my 4.5 years on this game, I have 3 50s and 3 others at 30+. And I KNOW I'm not unique in this. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Now that's just plain being a jerk, Bill. Explain why you felt the need to deduct reputation from someone just because they have an opinion differing from yours. Now if he posted in a trollish, annoying or incoherent way, maybe...|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Of course you'll continue starting new threads on topics with existing threads. It's what you do.
I hope you noticed that I signed my neg rep hit for you. I don't want you thinking I'm just another anonymous meanie head. As mentioned, the vast majority of those individuals that consistently get negative rep comments deserve them. If you wish to stop getting them, stop deserving them. I'm not shouting you down. I'm only attempting to explain why you see what you see. Long live the rep system! |
I think I've added/deducted rep about 4 times total since the forums changed (most positive toward SteelClaw in this thread) but you'll be my 4th and my 1st deduction. Not because I don't agree with what you said but for misuse of the rep system.
In the long run, it does nothing but annoy and frustrate the boards. If the system were dropped, who would actually miss it?
If something needs to replace this system, I'd opt for the old 'stars' system. I'd generally read threads with titles or subjects that interests me and skip everything else unless it had an odd star rating (high or low) then I'd read into those too. This rep system, when used properly, doesn't do much and when used improperly is just a griefing tool.
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A nail weeps for its severely-dented head. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
The comments are only anonymous to us.
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Bill's right, the comments are only anonymous to us users, not the forum staff. Follow the comment's link to the rep'd post and report it, explaining the offending comment, and a mod can act on it.
Sam: "My mind is a swirling miasma of scintillating thoughts and turgid ideas."
Max: "Me too."
Stuff
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Can you give one single positive element to the reputation system? It does not show the "worth of a poster", Green shows how many people like their posts which in part also equates to how much they post. Red shows how often their opinion differs from the popular one, which doesn't mean they're "useless". |
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| That said, I do not believe I have EVER deserved any of the negative rep, and I certainly haven't ever deserved the insults. |
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Now that's just plain being a jerk, Bill. Explain why you felt the need to deduct reputation from someone just because they have an opinion differing from yours. Now if he posted in a trollish, annoying or incoherent way, maybe... I think I've added/deducted rep about 4 times total since the forums changed (most positive toward SteelClaw in this thread) but you'll be my 4th and my 1st deduction. Not because I don't agree with what you said but for misuse of the rep system. |
The rep system does, barring aforementioned exceptions, show the "net worth" of a given poster. It IS to be used to share one's opinion of another poster with the rest of the forum's population.
In this case, I gave Ultimo negative rep because I find his repeated starting of new threads on existing topics annoying and I often find his posts in general to be poorly thought out. His tirades in the past regarding not being able to build tankmages as per his favorite fictional character are a prime example. (Don't get me wrong, I think Iron Man rocks as well. Used to collect the comic.)
I don't neg rep people out of petty vindictiveness. I do so with the intent that keeping their rep low will either leave them in the red, or cause them to disable it to hide their shame, so that others viewing their posts can easily ascertain whether the post in question should be bothered with.
In other words, TSZ, I don't share your opinion that the rep system isn't representative of one's worth in this virtual community. Again, barring some exceptions.
Ultimo, it does not surprise me that you don't think your negative rep and comments are deserved. I, otoh, do.
And Leo, thank you for the negative rep. I'm glad to see you using the system. You even signed it. However, we disagree. I neg rep not only for individuals simply, as you put it in your comment, "acting like a ******," but also when I find their opinion to be lacking substance and worth.
I'm certainly not going to neg rep someone because they disagree with me. Were I to do that I'd be spending 99% of my forum dwelling time filling in comments. No thanks.
I'll stick to neg repping those that I feel deserve it, usually with a signature and an explanation if I feel they deserve such an effort, but sometimes with nothing more than a period when I don't.
Be well, people of CoH.
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The rep system doesn't show the "net worth" of anything, least of all a POSTER. I only see certain cliques roasting people that disagree with them. It's not about quality or worth, it's about popularity.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I'll be answering all these at once.
The rep system does, barring aforementioned exceptions, show the "net worth" of a given poster. It IS to be used to share one's opinion of another poster with the rest of the forum's population. In this case, I gave Ultimo negative rep because I find his repeated starting of new threads on existing topics annoying and I often find his posts in general to be poorly thought out. His tirades in the past regarding not being able to build tankmages as per his favorite fictional character are a prime example. (Don't get me wrong, I think Iron Man rocks as well. Used to collect the comic.) I don't neg rep people out of petty vindictiveness. I do so with the intent that keeping their rep low will either leave them in the red, or cause them to disable it to hide their shame, so that others viewing their posts can easily ascertain whether the post in question should be bothered with. In other words, TSZ, I don't share your opinion that the rep system isn't representative of one's worth in this virtual community. Again, barring some exceptions. Ultimo, it does not surprise me that you don't think your negative rep and comments are deserved. I, otoh, do. And Leo, thank you for the negative rep. I'm glad to see you using the system. You even signed it. However, we disagree. I neg rep not only for individuals simply, as you put it in your comment, "acting like a ******," but also when I find their opinion to be lacking substance and worth. I'm certainly not going to neg rep someone because they disagree with me. Were I to do that I'd be spending 99% of my forum dwelling time filling in comments. No thanks. I'll stick to neg repping those that I feel deserve it, usually with a signature and an explanation if I feel they deserve such an effort, but sometimes with nothing more than a period when I don't. |
Again, you're giving me bad rep for starting threads, but I've not started threads as you suggest. I've posted in numerous threads started by OTHER people, though. As for my supposed fixation on Iron Man (mentioned twice now), the only reason that seems to be the case is that, as I said, I can be rather stubborn, even dogged. I never give up trying to make a character LIKE Iron Man - that is, one that has defenses and ranged attacks (and as I've often said, in BALANCE. I've never asked for a tank-mage).
You assume I'm "hiding" my shameful rep. Frankly, I could care less what any of the forum trolls think of me, I simply don't want to be bothered with ongoing mud-slinging. Unfortunately, turning it off hasn't slowed down the petty childishness.
I'll point out that I only apply rep in exceptional circumstances. Someone has to be particularly rude or hostile to recieve negative rep from me. I NEVER apply negative rep for someone's IDEAS, and I would certainly never attempt to evaluate someone's WORTH from a handful of forum posts.
1: I see trends. The rep meter tends to agree with the trends I see. Therefore, I see no reason for its removal.
2: On my way to work I realized that I had confused you with Ultimus. My apologies for that. It doesn't change the fact that threads calling for the removal of the rep system existed prior to the creation of this thread.
3: You can already create Iron Man as a ff/eb defender or eb/em blaster.
4: If you could NOT care less what forum trolls think of you, you wouldn't have started this thread.
Be well, people of CoH.
Rep changes due to my posts in this thread:
Leo dropped me from 1027 to 1024
2 users bumped me from 1024 to 1067
1 user attempted to neg me but apparently lacks the ability to do so (grey dot) with a sarcastic comment about me being a saint. Satan knows that isn't true.
Working as intended it seems.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Ahh, I understand you now Bill.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
1: I see trends. The rep meter tends to agree with the trends I see. Therefore, I see no reason for its removal.
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You are a "Follow the popular crowd" kinda guy. The kind who wears those new blue jeans everyone else is wearing, buys a new pair of shoes every 6 months so you can have the coolest shoes, etc. The rep meter lets you know how popular someone is amongst the forumites, there by how friendly you should be with them.
So it tells YOU their "value as a poster"
I.E. It's a popularity contest.
At least that's the only explanation I can find for it. Sure it agrees with trends, because as I said, you get neg-repped for disagreeing with the popular opinion, or otherwise going against the flow.
Green for being a sheep.
Red for not.
>.>
YAY SHEEP!
Really, I don't care about reputation one way or another. Or rather I should say that I try to ignore it, so that may put me more in the "dislike" group. I turned mine off on a whim just because I didn't want to get sucked into caring about it. And I know I'm fickle enough that I'd suddenly care if there were red dots below my name. But in all honesty (and in my opinion, of course), reputation seems to be about as accurate a show of a poster's character as their post count is.
All that said, getting rid of reputation does have at least one tangible benefit. It'd stop threads like this from being posted. Thinking back to the days when we got rid of stars, I can't seem to recall and "Bring stars back!" posts. I'm sure there were some, but they weren't a big enough blip on the radar to commit to memory.
So I say get rid of reputation. If only just so people will stop complaining about it.
For tags, it would be the best if the server can automatically generate keywords, which can make searching a lot more efficient. The other way is to have selected human beings assigning tags in a consistent and objective way to each new thread, maybe several volunteers for each forum section.
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I don't see it working as intended. You gave negative rep to someone you mistakingly thought was someone else. I gave you negative rep for your misuse of said system and yet it does absolutely nothing in the long run.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Rep changes due to my posts in this thread:
Leo dropped me from 1027 to 1024 2 users bumped me from 1024 to 1067 1 user attempted to neg me but apparently lacks the ability to do so (grey dot) with a sarcastic comment about me being a saint. Satan knows that isn't true. Working as intended it seems. |
i.e. it isn't working.
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Your interpretation of events is skewed.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I don't see it working as intended. You gave negative rep to someone you mistakingly thought was someone else. I gave you negative rep for your misuse of said system and yet it does absolutely nothing in the long run.
i.e. it isn't working. |
I gave negative rep for starting a thread about an existing topic. Confusing Ultimo with Ulitmus was irrelevent. And apologized for. He would have gotten the negative rep anyway.
Your inability to change my rep in more than a minor way is due to your rep being as low as it is.
Working as intended.
Be well, people of CoH.
Seriously, does any of this even matter? Can we drop this thread yet?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
Ahh, I understand you now Bill.
You are a "Follow the popular crowd" kinda guy. The kind who wears those new blue jeans everyone else is wearing, buys a new pair of shoes every 6 months so you can have the coolest shoes, etc. The rep meter lets you know how popular someone is amongst the forumites, there by how friendly you should be with them. So it tells YOU their "value as a poster" I.E. It's a popularity contest. At least that's the only explanation I can find for it. Sure it agrees with trends, because as I said, you get neg-repped for disagreeing with the popular opinion, or otherwise going against the flow. Green for being a sheep. Red for not. >.> YAY SHEEP! |
Your delusions are strong. My jeans are faded due to age. I didn't buy them that way. I have 1 pair of tennis shoes. One pair of combat boots. One pair of sandles. When they wear out, I buy new ones.
But hey, don't let me stop you from proving which side of the worth/worthless argument you're on.
Popularity is a funny thing. Some things become popular because they have worth. Others are popular because they have good marketing, but they tend to be flashes in the pan and are forgotten about it short order.
Your posts tell me what "value" you have as a poster. I have little doubt that were I to go through your posting history, there would be little to nothing of worth found there if this last one is any indication.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Sure. Whatever you say >_>|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Your interpretation of events is skewed.
I gave negative rep for starting a thread about an existing topic. Confusing Ultimo with Ulitmus was irrelevent. And apologized for. He would have gotten the negative rep anyway. Your inability to change my rep in more than a minor way is due to your rep being as low as it is. Working as intended. |
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Seriously, does any of this even matter? Can we drop this thread yet?
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Haha Bill, I haven't changed my avatar in over 5 years |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
1: I see trends. The rep meter tends to agree with the trends I see. Therefore, I see no reason for its removal.
2: On my way to work I realized that I had confused you with Ultimus. My apologies for that. It doesn't change the fact that threads calling for the removal of the rep system existed prior to the creation of this thread. 3: You can already create Iron Man as a ff/eb defender or eb/em blaster. 4: If you could NOT care less what forum trolls think of you, you wouldn't have started this thread. |
-- Kudos if anyone knows who it actually is I've not posted in a while been playing Champions Online and waiting for Going Rogue beta to start, I expect to be in the first wave since I am at nearly 66 months
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This, many times over. Though, frankly, it only reinforces the OP to me. Especially with the "You don't have enough rep to budge mine" nonsense.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Seriously, does any of this even matter? Can we drop this thread yet?
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I like rep. It's helped me curtail being too much of an a$$hat to others. So, I think it should stay.
The only problem I have is when I'm negative repped with an insult and I ask a Mod to help out...and they ignore it or find being calle a moron acceptable.
Either way, I typically sign my reps no matter if it's + or -.
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They're not trying to shout you down. They're valuing what you have to say based on their feelings. You're welcome to say what you wish, however the value people assign to them is up to them. Rep just gives people a means to let people who don't have time to read every thread how you're seen overall.
| I refuse to be shouted down (though, I am not unreasonable), and as some will tell you, I can be remarkably stubborn. |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Your delusions are strong. My jeans are faded due to age. I didn't buy them that way. I have 1 pair of tennis shoes. One pair of combat boots. One pair of sandles. When they wear out, I buy new ones.
But hey, don't let me stop you from proving which side of the worth/worthless argument you're on. Popularity is a funny thing. Some things become popular because they have worth. Others are popular because they have good marketing, but they tend to be flashes in the pan and are forgotten about it short order. Your posts tell me what "value" you have as a poster. I have little doubt that were I to go through your posting history, there would be little to nothing of worth found there if this last one is any indication. |
And see Bill, I can say the same about you, despite your green rep. I bet I wouldn't find much worth in your posts. Probably just mindless echoing of the popular opinion.
You flat-out stated that 1:
Rep tells you someone's value as a poster.
2:
Rep follows trends.
I know for a fact that the trends rep follows are how close to the popular opinion you sit.
Ergo it says to me that you consider the value of someone as a poster to be how close to the popular opnion they sit.
that's fine, just makes me know that your worth as a poster means little to me.
Now if I used your very logic, that would mean that to me, everyone with a green rep has no worth as a poster.
Rep doesn't tell you anything. I have seen posters (I'll not name names) who have bar after bar of green rep who rarely post anything except insults and who repeatedly troll threads. Their rep isn't indicative of ANYTHING.
Rep on these forums is used to send insults and beratement, and little else. It is not productive in any way, and is in fact a destructive, judgemental system that promotes little more than animosity.
The notion that you could somehow judge someone's "value" based on their forum activity is frankly insulting.
I didn't turn off my rep because I'm somehow ashamed of it. In fact, I'm the sort that might even take some pride in it, as it proves that I don't often bend to the will of the popular majority, and stand by my convictions.
I turned it off to avoid having to put up with the endless crap I get from anonymous rep trolls. Unfortunate that it didn't work that way. I leave it off because it's worthless.
I stand by my assertion. It should be dispensed with.
(And I don't give a damn that there have been other threads on this, I'll post what I like, when I like. Maybe if they see enough complaining threads, they'll get rid of a stupid system.)
Oh, and Ultimus, your avatar is a little fuzzy, but it looks like the paper doll from Elder Scrolls: Arena...
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Nope but here's a hint:|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Rep doesn't tell you anything. I have seen posters (I'll not name names) who have bar after bar of green rep who rarely post anything except insults and who repeatedly troll threads. Their rep isn't indicative of ANYTHING.
Rep on these forums is used to send insults and beratement, and little else. It is not productive in any way, and is in fact a destructive, judgemental system that promotes little more than animosity. The notion that you could somehow judge someone's "value" based on their forum activity is frankly insulting. I didn't turn off my rep because I'm somehow ashamed of it. In fact, I'm the sort that might even take some pride in it, as it proves that I don't often bend to the will of the popular majority, and stand by my convictions. I turned it off to avoid having to put up with the endless crap I get from anonymous rep trolls. Unfortunate that it didn't work that way. I leave it off because it's worthless. I stand by my assertion. It should be dispensed with. (And I don't give a damn that there have been other threads on this, I'll post what I like, when I like. Maybe if they see enough complaining threads, they'll get rid of a stupid system.) Oh, and Ultimus, your avatar is a little fuzzy, but it looks like the paper doll from Elder Scrolls: Arena... |
Vae Victus, suffering to the conquered, ironic now I was the one suffering...
and
Paladin
Those are the hints
The truly stupid that leave actual insults can be plucked out by the mods and removed from the forums permanently.
The comments are only anonymous to us.
The one you mention, and, it allows cowards to make pointless jabs, unfounded comments, insults, and just plain assholery in the complete comfort of anonymity.
The problem is, if it were not anonymous, then you would get someone posting something insulting or stupid, and counter-repping everyone who negged them for it.
(Say I responded to one of your posts here saying "OMFG Teh rep system is STUPID! And ur stupid for liking it, you stupid stupidface!" and you, and many others, would obviously neg me for it, then I would just go and neg all of them, for negging me, even though you had grounds for it, and I.. didn't.)
This is the core reason I feel the system should be abolished.
Anonymity leads to a certain form of abuse.
Lack of anonymity leads to an alternate form of abuse.
"positive rep" ratings lead to a form of abuse ("I'll rep you if you rep me, bladiddy blagh")
Can you give one single positive element to the reputation system?
It does not show the "worth of a poster", Green shows how many people like their posts which in part also equates to how much they post. Red shows how often their opinion differs from the popular one, which doesn't mean they're "useless".
I've been neg-repped for thinking there should be a method of gaining power post-50 other than IOing out.
I've been neg-repped for pointing out the flaws in the SSK system, and posing a system to change it that would fix those flaws, and has been tweaked and worked to avoid adding any new flaws or returning old flaws.
I've been neg-repped for being a PLer. Infact to quote "PLer, PLer, go away; come back never." Which is after I pointed out that in my 4.5 years on this game, I have 3 50s and 3 others at 30+.
And I KNOW I'm not unique in this.