OK. I haven't found it to be anywhere near that bad. Especially since I solo AVs and crystals on the ITF with my DM/EA. But obviously YMMV.
EDIT: Of course, to be perfectly fair, DM gives the set some help that EM doesn't, but still I think you're overreacting a bit.
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Energy Melee lacks any worthwhile mitigation. While the disorients might be sometimes good against a single target, for large scale mitigation, it sucks. Plain and simple. My hatred of Fiery Aura mostly comes from the fact that I paired it with EM.
Perhaps had you slotted ED 3rec-reds/3heal it would have been more to your liking.
EA has holes that can only be partially filled with tough/weave and SetIO buffs.
It has a cloak and no real taunt aura, so it should be played like a stalker, not a brute.
I've dumped several EA brutes in the past, but it looks like it will be my secondary for claws when I-16 goes live. The knock from focus and shockwave will go a long way toward keeping it alive until I can get IOs running.
Be well, people of CoH.
Do please make the effort to type and not just use acronyms all the time. I thought you were talking about Electric Armor until you mentioned an "END/HP life suck," which is more something Energy Drain would be. Still not sure if you mean Electric Melee or Energy Melee.
I don't know what EA you were running, but I quite enjoy mine.
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If you just take your toon out of AE, the toon probably is a little under slotted, I believe. You should see if everything is slotted properly, and take the appropriate power pools to increase survival. At level 37, you can start IO slotting as well. You can softcap-defense an EA brute pretty easily, and your toon will be a lot more fun to play.|
I built an EM/EA brute and took him to the AE to be experimented upon. At level 37 where I pulled him out of the AE, I discovered a few things about EA. Keep in mind that of course these are all my own opinions. 1.) EA does not suit my playstyle. I like to play a toon with a tiny shred of a chance for survival against four even con minions. Against four even con COT, I got my *** kicked every time. Same with CoS. Took ONE even leveled boss, got my *** handed to me. |
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| 2.) The END/HP lifesuck they get is worthless. Slotted with two heal and two end mod (40) it was a grand total of 126 hp I get back. Just stupid. |
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| Do please make the effort to type and not just use acronyms all the time. I thought you were talking about Electric Armor until you mentioned an "END/HP life suck," which is more something Energy Drain would be. Still not sure if you mean Electric Melee or Energy Melee. |
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Sorry about that, hadn't thought about it at the time. I'll clarify in the future.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Do please make the effort to type and not just use acronyms all the time. I thought you were talking about Electric Armor until you mentioned an "END/HP life suck," which is more something Energy Drain would be. Still not sure if you mean Electric Melee or Energy Melee.
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WTF is this? I post my opinion and findings about a broken set and all you can come up with is your elitist "don't feed the troll" ********? Go away.
I'm posting this just to add my voice to the already large call for a revamp for this set. While I realize I don't have eight hundred thousand posts to my title, I DO believe I am entitled to voice my opinion and findings. Knock it off.
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Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
If you just take your toon out of AE, the toon probably is a little under slotted, I believe. You should see if everything is slotted properly, and take the appropriate power pools to increase survival. At level 37, you can start IO slotting as well. You can softcap-defense an EA brute pretty easily, and your toon will be a lot more fun to play.
The heal is small. I guess the intention is that the heal is supposed to help when fighting large group of mobs. Usually, EA for energy aura, ElA for electric armor, EM for energy melee, and ElM for electric melee. |
I must admit that I'm naive with NRG Armor, as I had never used it before, but the power descriptions all seemed fairly straightforward. If the powers do NOT function as they are described, then I'm pretty sure the problem isn't with me.
That said, I DID slot the brute out with 40 IOs (that's up there in the original post) and I was still pretty much easy meat for whatever wanted me.
I guess what would be appropriate is something in the power's description that explains that it was never intended to be played as a brute or frontline fighter but instead requires the toon to be played as a stalker.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Energy Melee lacks any worthwhile mitigation. While the disorients might be sometimes good against a single target, for large scale mitigation, it sucks. Plain and simple. My hatred of Fiery Aura mostly comes from the fact that I paired it with EM.
Perhaps had you slotted ED 3rec-reds/3heal it would have been more to your liking. EA has holes that can only be partially filled with tough/weave and SetIO buffs. It has a cloak and no real taunt aura, so it should be played like a stalker, not a brute. I've dumped several EA brutes in the past, but it looks like it will be my secondary for claws when I-16 goes live. The knock from focus and shockwave will go a long way toward keeping it alive until I can get IOs running. |
THIS was really helpful.. That's a lot of information I wish I'd had. It seems that almost ALL of the thematically congruent sets are garbage in this game. Elec/ELEC is crap together, at least in my experience, NRG/NRG same, Dark/Dark, same, etc
Seriously... C'mon.
Guess I'll reroll him as an Invuln/WP brute. Those two sets function as advertised WITHOUT the benefit of a billion inf IO load out. Pretty sure NRG Melee works out alright with Invuln, I recall having a tanker with those sets a long time ago.
OH NOES! I expressed an opinion that wasn't in line with the forum cartel's current nazi stranglehold of permissable posting!
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
OK. I haven't found it to be anywhere near that bad. Especially since I solo AVs and crystals on the ITF with my DM/EA. But obviously YMMV.
EDIT: Of course, to be perfectly fair, DM gives the set some help that EM doesn't, but still I think you're overreacting a bit. |
... I'm not. And I also don't believe you. Unless you've dumped an UNGODLY sum of inf on your NRG armor brute, I seriously, seriously doubt you solo AVs with it.
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Energy Aura can be softcapped and DM gives a self-heal. I don't doubt at all he soloed AVs with it.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
... I'm not. And I also don't believe you. Unless you've dumped an UNGODLY sum of inf on your NRG armor brute, I seriously, seriously doubt you solo AVs with it.
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BTW Dark/dark is far from crap.
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No kidding? Everyone says NRG can be soft capped easily. Unless easily means with generic IOs or SO's it still doesn't change the fundamental problem with the powerset.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Energy Aura can be softcapped and DM gives a self-heal. I don't doubt at all he soloed AVs with it.
BTQ Dark/dark is far from crap. |
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There's your first mistake. Descriptions mean nothing in this game. Read the real numbers. Understand what they mean. Otherwise you're throwing darts backwards over your shoulder and trying to hit a bullseye.| If the powers do NOT function as they are described, then I'm pretty sure the problem isn't with me. |
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| Elec/ELEC is crap together, at least in my experience, NRG/NRG same, Dark/Dark, same, etc |
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| ... I'm not. And I also don't believe you. Unless you've dumped an UNGODLY sum of inf on your NRG armor brute, I seriously, seriously doubt you solo AVs with it. |
DM has a self-heal that does very good damage. Its tohit debuffs stack on EA's defense. It has enough DPS to take out AVs.
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| No kidding? Everyone says NRG can be soft capped easily. Unless easily means with generic IOs or SO's it still doesn't change the fundamental problem with the powerset. |
At this point, you've really offered up nothing but your perceptions that are clouded by your obvious lack of understanding concerning the mechanics of the game.
Please feel free to come back when you have some kind of data that proves what you're trying to get folks to believe that can't be refuted soundly without even working up a sweat.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I've soloed lots of AVs on my DM/EA brute.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
... I'm not. And I also don't believe you. Unless you've dumped an UNGODLY sum of inf on your NRG armor brute, I seriously, seriously doubt you solo AVs with it.
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Frankly if you can't defeat 4 even-con minions, then that's on you, not the powerset. Mine was perfectly fine leveling up.
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You played the set for a day after having it powerleveled to 37. You played the set for a day with one primary, an incomplete build, not enough time to get used to the powers, and you say that the set fails?|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
Of course, what do I know. But just after spending a full day on it, I'm forced to agree that while I have not been in every possible situation with EA, and no, I haven't combined it with all possible powersets, I AM forced to agree that it fails utterly to perform as advertised and is NOT a valid brute armor set.
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No, the set doesn't fail. The players that powerleveled you fail. You fail for not learning a set through actual gameplay and complaining that things don't work the way you think they should. If you would have rolled a character and learned the ins and outs before chiming in to complain that a set "fails" after one day of play in highly limited scenarios you would have been much more accepted.
Post your current build that you have for your character now. Let us look at it. Let us assist you in making it not "fail." You will more than likely not be dissapointed.
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I wouldn't say ungodly. Probably around 200-300 million inf. No purples. Mostly I just focused on Kinetic Combat (to cap Sm, Le defense) and capping Energy Defense. At the end I would up with Fire/Cold/Neg in the 30s and that's worked out well for me. |
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
... I'm not. And I also don't believe you. Unless you've dumped an UNGODLY sum of inf on your NRG armor brute, I seriously, seriously doubt you solo AVs with it.
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DM itself doesn't need any help.
If you don't believe me, I'm not going to bother to show you, but it can be done. Energy can be fun, but you have to take the time to learn the set. You should be able to do a CoT mission with SOs, and with IOs this set can soar.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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yep, I am seriously considering remaking my DA/DM tank into a DM/DA brute. Won't be able to make him quite as tough as my tank, but his damage output will be ungodly. I should essentially be able to do with a brute version what I can't do with my tank, which is kill AVs. |
Originally Posted by Kioshi
BTW Dark/dark is far from crap.
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As far as EA goes, I have seen folks do some nutty stuff with EA, so it's not the set.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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I think your complaints have more to do with this than with the powerset itself. I know that most people who have their toons PLed claim to be able to build and play them just fine. I know, however, that many of those claims are quite optimistic.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
At level 37 where I pulled him out of the AE,
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So, your build is probably quite different from the build of someone who has actually played that combination.
On top of that you have mentioned that EA does not suit your playstyle which adds to the problem. There are many good sets out there that are basically useless for somebody who can not wrap his head around them.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
I am going to have to disagree with you on EA also. I have a WM/EA that I have been playing for a long time and he has to be close to my favorite brute. I don't play him as a stalker either, I have always used him in the tank role on teams. I think alot of your problem may be your choice of primary. Em does not provide much mitigation as has been mentioned already and EA benefits from sets that provide that. Try pairing EA with another primary and then come back with your experience before condemning the whole set.
WM, BA, DM, SM and SS would all be better with EA than EM. I probably would not try Fire with it myself unless you are a masochist.
As far as the heal/end power, I have found from my experience that I prefer slotting it recharge first then heal and end mod last. I also use it in large groups to get the most benefit. With my slotting I get 46% heal every 25 seconds off of 10 mobs.
I think the opinion of the OP IS important.
Not because it's fair to assume everything about a set after playing it for a day, with one build.
Not because I think he's got the best build for the level, he probably doesn't
Not because I think he's got the best idea of how to play the set perfectly, that's probably not the case.
I think the opinion is important because I heard similar from other EA players and I think it probably reflects how a lot of people plan to use EA, and how a lot of people are let down by what they get in the set and when they get it, especially if they play next to brutes who are throwing together random powers from other secondarys and doing well.
In my opinion, every brute, has the right to expect to be able to survive against 5 even con minions provided they're not purely antithetical to your powerset. I know the rule is three, but brutes, in my opinion, should consider the bare minimum to be 5. Most brutes can do this after all.
At some levels, in many builds, EA will NOT be able to do this without pools or IOs. That's a problem
Does EA allow you to IO the bejezuz out of it at high, or even mid levels? probably softcapping before most SRs do? sure. Does EA allow you to run extra toggles for weave? sure. Can you IO for regen and heavy runspeed so you can skip health and swift and then do without stamina and the fitness pool all together? With EA you can. Will Siphon life or fault make you live? Yes, yes they will.
Many players won't want to IO their character, or won't have much mitigation in their primary. They'll try to build an EA and play it with the powers they get in the set, they'll expect any primary to be viable for EA, they'll use cloak to sneak around and only aggro 4-5 mobs... and they will die.
Should they be expected to learn to use the strengths of the set? sure. Learn to use stealth, that should take at least 10 minutes... but stealth won't limit your aggro to less than 5 in many situations. Certainly you can expect to have to deal with 4. In my opinion, you still need to be able to take that many. Fighting Arachnoids as Ele? ok, fair enough, you're in trouble. You should be. Fighting against pure psi as /EA? that's also going to be a problem, and that's ok, that's your weakness... but 5 even con freaks should not be a death sentence against an SO'd build, and if your build relies on EA's powers alone, it can be.
Knowing "how to play EA" requires a more in depth knowledge of "how to build EA" than any other armor set I can think of, and if you do know, if you do spend the inf and build strong, you most probably don't get enough of a payback. With maybe a very few excpetions, your work doesn't get you ahead of what other sets get with similar work. If you have to start lower, you should end up just a little higher. You don't, and that's another valid problem.
EA doesn't need energize in place of CP. It comes too late, and it does too much. Energize wouldn't help lower level EAs at all, and would have higher level IO'd EAs competing with IO'd WP for overall power. EA needs a smaller survival boost that comes much earlier.
Something that lets players like the OP just sneak around and smash stuff.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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Originally Posted by Spiritchaser
In my opinion, every brute, has the right to expect to be able to survive against 5 even con minions provided they're not purely antithetical to your powerset. I know the rule is three, but brutes, in my opinion, should consider the bare minimum to be 5. Most brutes can do this after all.
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I had no problem doing this with EA at any level. As I said I took the lead brute roll in teams also without any problems, EA does take a little more thinking to play than a set like WP though. I think the OP needs to take another look at EA as it isn't nearly as bad as he thinks. I have played a lot of brutes to 50 so maybe I understand the AT better, but I find the set to work just fine and I enjoyed playing mine from 1-50. Of course YMMV.
I've got a few level 50 EAs, and I'd say they rely more on pools, or IOs or mitigation from the primary than anything short of /Ele... of course that's getting a buff...
edit: now in fairness, my mako cone blast brute probably cannot exist as anything EXCEPT EA... at least there is one thing the set does that other sets cant.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Stats for an EA using only EA powers and SOs:
S/L Def: 25.74
F/C/E Def: 29.25
N Def: 16.38
S/L DR: 11.7
E/T DR: 14.625
When we do a straight compare with SR and its 30.42 to m/r/a and its passive scaling DR, EA initially looks like it comes up REALLY short.
But SR has no endurance buff/drain. SR has no self heal at all.
Adding tough/weave/cj fully slotted to EA and it now sits at:
S/L Def: 34.515
F/C/E Def: 38.025
N Def: 25.155
S/L DR: 29.25
E/T DR: 14.625
Sitting at 35% S/L Def backed by 30% S/L DR with stealth, end drain and a minor heal is not weak. Getting that extra 10% defense from IOs will not be difficult. The SR will obviously need even less, but on average, the PSDR in SR averages out to 20% to all but psi and toxic while the EA is sitting on 30% S/L all the time.
I know the argument is that a set shouldn't need pools. They don't. But in defense based sets (SR, EA, Ice) adding tough/weave greatly increases their survivability and it's almost dumb to go without them. Especially when you've got an end management tool to help pay for them.
So where is EA *really* hurting? Toxic for one. I don't know of any toxic attacks that lack a positional component. That means SR works against them. EA doesn't. While that 15% DR to toxic certainly helps, you're still getting tagged with all of them.
And then there's the psi hole. EA and SR share this although at least SOME of the psi attacks out there have a positional component, so SR is in somewhat better shape there, as well.
The question is whether EA's end management/drain, stealth and minor heal make up for those holes. I don't know the answer to that.
But weak in the overall? No, the set isn't that. It's better off that both Elec and FA on the mitigation front.
Be well, people of CoH.
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What brute doesn't have pool powers. I have 5 level 50 brutes and all of them have fighting and fitness. It just makes them better so why not have it.|
Originally Posted by Spiritchaser
I've got a few level 50 EAs, and I'd say they rely more on pools, or IOs or mitigation from the primary than anything short of /Ele... of course that's getting a buff...
edit: now in fairness, my mako cone blast brute probably cannot exist as anything EXCEPT EA... at least there is one thing the set does that other sets cant. |
I have Mako cones on my Dark Armor brute, I just tend to jump straight up to fire them and they work like PBAoE's then.
I built an EM/EA brute and took him to the AE to be experimented upon.
At level 37 where I pulled him out of the AE, I discovered a few things about EA. Keep in mind that of course these are all my own opinions.
1.) EA does not suit my playstyle. I like to play a toon with a tiny shred of a chance for survival against four even con minions. Against four even con COT, I got my *** kicked every time. Same with CoS. Took ONE even leveled boss, got my *** handed to me.
2.) The END/HP lifesuck they get is worthless. Slotted with two heal and two end mod (40) it was a grand total of 126 hp I get back. Just stupid.
3.) After flying around the Isles for a while LOOKING for an opponent EA is strong against, I failed completely. Everything everywhere pwns EA.
I think I would have fired whoever submitted this to me to be approved and added to the game. The fact that it is STILL in this condition after all these years does not say good things.
Of course, what do I know. But just after spending a full day on it, I'm forced to agree that while I have not been in every possible situation with EA, and no, I haven't combined it with all possible powersets, I AM forced to agree that it fails utterly to perform as advertised and is NOT a valid brute armor set.
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