come on devs...pvp recipes are almost extinct
By
AlienOne,
Posted on: 2009-08-19 06:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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You're exactly right. And I hadn't placed myself in the category of "casual player." I'm actually a pretty hardcore gamer when it comes right down to it--been hardcore at it for at least 20 years. But, that's not the point... |
Originally Posted by Tricia
The average* player doesn't even attempt to "purple out" *one* build. I doubt there's more than a handful people out there that would even think about doing the same to both builds. The vast, vast majority of people that even use dual builds only use it on some of their toons...and if they use it at all, they use a much cheaper build on their lesser-used build.
Even good level 50 builds can be done for quite cheap. I recently did a soft-cap build for my boyfriend's Claws/SR that ended up costing me less than 100 million. (I wasn't paying attention to the exact amount). And for the return that gives, that's a great price. I have a couple really expensive builds, but most of them are pretty cheap. And there are a lot of people in this game that just use SOs, or basic IOs. So, considering that the 2 billion inf uber-purple build is *anything* but required, and if you *do* want it, it can easily be gotten without farming...no, the game does not encourage farming. Except to the lazy. * and no, I'm not talking about the mythical "casual" player. I'm just saying that most people don't bother with purples on most of their toons...at least as far as I can tell. |
I was basically trying think of the "little guy," when it comes to this sort of thing... Maybe I have too much "compassion" for a hardcore-gamer-type, but still... Just seems wrong that only 14-year old boys and people like me who are currently out of a job should be the only ones who have the sets that can "set" them above the rest, especially when it comes to PvP.
But, then again... I'm not *personally* experiencing any problems getting what I need for my toons... But, it kinda pains me to see posts like the OP's post who says they actually put the time and effort forth to get drops like that every day, and that still doesn't seem to cut it.
Luck of the draw, I guess.
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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So, as of right now, since both you and I are throwing out what we "think," nothing is concrete.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
And I think that estimate is still wildly optimistic.
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Unless you have some actual numbers somwhere I can check out.
That'd be grrreeaaaat... Mmmmkay?
Seriously though, it just sounds like we're speaking from our own personal experiences... I know when dual builds were released, I wanted to created builds for "different roles" on ALL my toons, and have many friends who are now doing the same. It sounds as if you are not really interested in the whole dual build thing, and have several friends who are not as well. Therefore, we're both just stating our own personal opinion on stats, based on our own attitude on it, and who we know personally who thinks the same way we do.
In either case, it DID increase demand on the market, while AE DID decrease supply *somewhat*. So, therefore, the problem remains (or grows larger, depending on your point of view)... It's now become quite a bit more expensive to set our your toon. Now, as stated before, I don't have a problem with it, but when talking with new players in the game who can't even fathom how to afford certain "needed" IOs on every toon they make.... I wind up echoing their sentiments on the boards... "Why so expensive? It would take me FOREVER to get that!" We all know it doesn't... But, we're all experienced players and know how to work the game to our advantage. For someone new, or someone who isn't getting the drops their striving for, it can be enough to make them quit--which isn't what ANYONE here wants, unless they have a death-wish for the game, of course.
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Anyone who watches the market like I do and can see the ripple of different changes to the game reflected in the ebb and flow of what's selling and for how much.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
So, as of right now, since both you and I are throwing out what we "think," nothing is concrete.
Unless you have some actual numbers somwhere I can check out. |
It isn't an exact science, but most marketeers have a pretty good sense of what's going on.
Exponentially better than your ridiculous braying about "twice the demand".
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Experience is meaningless unless you can interpret it correctly.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
Seriously though, it just sounds like we're speaking from our own personal experiences...
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| I know when dual builds were released, I wanted to created builds for "different roles" on ALL my toons, and have many friends who are now doing the same. |
Very few players bother with high end sets- fact.
Very few players bother with dual builds- fact.
Saying that a tiny fraction of players with bother with a dual build using high end IOs is an entirely reasonable statement.
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| In either case, it DID increase demand on the market, while AE DID decrease supply *somewhat*. |
You are delusional.
It has tangentially decreased the supply of purples (since the farmers are all in AE not getting purples), but it has generated an unprecedented flood of IO sets on the market.
Keep up this kind of gibbering and you may be the first person on the 'new' forums to make my ignore list.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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And... You got this conclusion...how? Seriously, what's your deal, Bro?|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Experience is meaningless unless you can interpret it correctly.
OMG the whole game must be exactly like you! |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Very few players bother with high end sets- fact.
Very few players bother with dual builds- fact. Saying that a tiny fraction of players with bother with a dual build using high end IOs is an entirely reasonable statement. |
For someone who has so many posts and claims to know the game so well, a lot of what you say seems pretty similar to your own claim of what you're saying I'm doing. Lighten up, man. It's going to be ok.
As stated before, and as I'm stating yet again, I. AM. NOT. PERSONALLY. HAVING. A. PROBLEM. WITH. THIS. Dur? Got it now? Or do I gotta break it down in Arkansas-speak? (j/k)
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
MA has generated the largest increase in set IO recipes in the history of the game.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
You are delusional.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It has tangentially decreased the supply of purples (since the farmers are all in AE not getting purples), but it has generated an unprecedented flood of IO sets on the market.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Keep up this kind of gibbering and you may be the first person on the 'new' forums to make my ignore list.
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/sarcasm
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
I'm surprised I haven't made his ignore list yet...
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I'm going to be so HONORED when it finally "happens" for me... I can't wait! I might actually change my location from San Bernardino, CA to "Nethergoat's ignore list!"|
Originally Posted by Westley
I'm surprised I haven't made his ignore list yet...
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Seriously... Online threats are so immature... I would have thought someone as "experienced" (not sure about old) as Nethergoat would be above that. Especially when speaking to someone who rarely posts his own opinions outside of the Kheldian section of the forums....lol
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Yeah well... your avatar's face is UGLY!
| Seriously... Online threats are so immature.. |
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Your don't need numbers to draw logical conclusions based on gamer psychology.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
According to... you? Where are you getting these "facts"? Are the Devs posting their actual numbers from the game somewhere I don't know about? Or are you making the bold claim that you see all and know all in the game, based on what you see in the market? And how many people would you say in the game don't use the market? Would you be able to "accurately" post those numbers?
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Every minor hurdle you put in the way of the gaming horde eliminates some % of them from moving forward- they just can't be bothered.
There is still endless whining around her about being poor, not being able to get 'the good stuff' etc even though anyone can do it and the market forum regs have been telling everyone exactly how since not long after I9.
Why? Because going to the market and using it is one extra step in the game, and some folk can't be bothered. They'd rather be poor and complain than raise a finger to help themselves.
This ties in directly with dual builds.
IO'ing a character out is a substantial investment of resources- which is why not many people do it. Once you've sunk that energy into a character, the imputes to do it AGAIN is near zero.
Most people have a lot of alts. If they're going to create multiple IO builds, they're more likely to do it on some new alt than to re-IO the guy they've already worked over.
Simple psychology.
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| For someone who has so many posts and claims to know the game so well, a lot of what you say seems pretty similar to your own claim of what you're saying I'm doing. |
And lol at the post count attack- it's been years since I got one of those.
I thought they were extinct.
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| As stated before, and as I'm stating yet again, I. AM. NOT. PERSONALLY. HAVING. A. PROBLEM. WITH. THIS. Dur? Got it now? Or do I gotta break it down in Arkansas-speak? (j/k) |
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| I'm assuming you meant "hasn't" on the supply of purples/PvP recipes, which is actually what I was referring to in my original post, and also what this thread was talking about. |
It has reduced the supply of purples by hoovering up all the farmers.
It has generated a vast wave of supply for set IOs.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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All right, I could get behind this. Doensn't apply to me or any of my friends personally, but I could definitely see how that "psychology" would apply to the "masses."|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Your don't need numbers to draw logical conclusions based on gamer psychology.
Every minor hurdle you put in the way of the gaming horde eliminates some % of them from moving forward- they just can't be bothered. There is still endless whining around her about being poor, not being able to get 'the good stuff' etc even though anyone can do it and the market forum regs have been telling everyone exactly how since not long after I9. Why? Because going to the market and using it is one extra step in the game, and some folk can't be bothered. They'd rather be poor and complain than raise a finger to help themselves. This ties in directly with dual builds. IO'ing a character out is a substantial investment of resources- which is why not many people do it. Once you've sunk that energy into a character, the imputes to do it AGAIN is near zero. Most people have a lot of alts. If they're going to create multiple IO builds, they're more likely to do it on some new alt than to re-IO the guy they've already worked over. Simple psychology. |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The difference, as I've already noted, is properly interpreting data.
And lol at the post count attack- it's been years since I got one of those. I thought they were extinct. |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Keep shooting off on tangents, that way you never have to answer factual attacks on your nonsensical babbling.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
MA has zero impact on PO's.
It has reduced the supply of purples by hoovering up all the farmers. It has generated a vast wave of supply for set IOs. |
Can I make your ignore list now, so you don't have to keep avoiding my questions?
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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It applies to you as much as anyone else, sorry.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
All right, I could get behind this. Doensn't apply to me or any of my friends personally, but I could definitely see how that "psychology" would apply to the "masses."
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| Ok, so if I promise to learn how to interpret data, can you promise to learn how to interpret an attack? |
Nothing you've said has risen to the level of 'attack'.
You're just some uninformed dude who thinks he knows it all.
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| I'll answer the "facts" once I actually see them. So far, it's only word of mouth. From you. Which most DEFINITELY doesn't make it "fact." |
I'm not interested in convincing you of anything.
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| How does it have "zero" impact if people are buying them for 5 billion? That's an "impact," however minor or light it may be... |
Nothing at all.
Zero. Zip.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
in PvE drops are generated by the team and randomly allocated.
So large teams stink for getting drops. I assume PvP works the same way. |
If a team-mate kills someone - your rep timer is set so no chance for rep/roll for 5 mins
Take a team of 6, that would be a maximum of 1 chance per target per 5 mins.
Those 6 split up, then only their own kills set the timer, and the maximum is 6 chances per mins.
So yeah PvP teaming is discouraged by the current system
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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How does it apply to me or my friends if we're wanting to IO out both our builds? We're not exactly fitting into that psychology you just explained if we're doing that, are we? Are you actually that dense, or are you just trying to be argumentative?|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It applies to you as much as anyone else, sorry.
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Previous post:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
And lol at the post count attack-
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Nothing you've said has risen to the level of 'attack'.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Players who understand the game will see the validity of my points.
I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
MA has nothing to do with PvP or the generation of PO's.
Nothing at all. Zero. Zip. |
I apologize for that confusion there. Just caught it.
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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You're one of the people who will jump over a gate to get a reward instead of blowing it off. That % gets smaller the more gates or the higher the gates developers construct.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
How does it apply to me or my friends if we're wanting to IO out both our builds? We're not exactly fitting into that psychology you just explained if we're doing that, are we?
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You're still part of the gamer groupmind, you're not off on your own special island of uniqueness.
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| I expected as much, since you have no actual proof of what comes out of your mouth. When I see it, I'll shut up. But, if I just see someone stating their personal opinions as "facts," I call BS. Oh, but that's what you're accusing me of, though... Oops... Forgot you were the only one allowed to do this on the forums. My bad. |
There is a qualitative difference in the resulting posts, and I trust the community to decide which of us knows what we're talking about and which one of us is fingerpainting on the walls with their own waste.
Back to the debunked points you are so assiduously trying to distract us from:
1: high end IOs aren't aimed at 'average' gamers, their availability to this demographic is meaningless.
2: inf falls like rain in this game, anyone who does want those l337 sets can earn them with very little effort. Anyone, no farming required.
3: very few people bother with dual builds, fewer than that bother putting 'the good stuff' in a dual build. They aren't increasing demand by any meaningful amount. Readers are free to believe your "everyone I know has l337 DBs therefore demand is doubled!" blather if they like- the reality is profoundly different.
4: gamers aren't intended to IO out every character they have with super duper awesome IOs, so it taking "several lifetimes" is meaningless.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Yes, part of the gamer groupmind, but obviously not exactly what you described (which was not feeling the need to put high-end stuff in both builds, because as I explained before...I do--which, obviously, is a different mindset than your description. Obviously.)|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
You're one of the people who will jump over a gate to get a reward instead of blowing it off. That % gets smaller the more gates or the higher the gates developers construct.
You're still part of the gamer groupmind, you're not off on your own special island of uniqueness. |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
One of us bases our statements on long study of the topic at hand, one of us pulls ideas out of our pants and yells LOOKY WHAT I FOUND!
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
There is a qualitative difference in the resulting posts, and I trust the community to decide which of us knows what we're talking about and which one of us is fingerpainting on the walls with their own waste.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Back to the debunked points you are so assiduously trying to distract us from:
1: high end IOs aren't aimed at 'average' gamers, their availability to this demographic is meaningless. |
That said, yes, I agree. It's not "aimed" at the average gamers. I agreed with that before. I just stated (damn, I hate repeating myself to people who believe they "above" me in some way) that I kinda feel sorry for those guys, because they have equal "right" (imo) to want to be "l337" in the gaming world as the rest of us. They just aren't afforded the time. Which is their fault, of course.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
2: inf falls like rain in this game, anyone who does want those l337 sets can earn them with very little effort. Anyone, no farming required.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
3: very few people bother with dual builds, fewer than that bother putting 'the good stuff' in a dual build. They aren't increasing demand by any meaningful amount. Readers are free to believe your "everyone I know has l337 DBs therefore demand is doubled!" blather if they like- the reality is profoundly different.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
4: gamers aren't intended to IO out every character they have with super duper awesome IOs, so it taking "several lifetimes" is meaningless.
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If gamers aren't intended to IO out every character they have, why are those slots there? Why are there IOs? What's stopping them from attempting this? Is there a "cap" to the amount of toons you can IO out that I don't know about? Link to patch notes plz?
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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i would like to know where you came up with this line of bs. i would love to see actual proof that people are buying things for more then the 2 billion cap we have. i also think you forget that the game is not balanced on io's. it is balanced on so's. most people if the get into io's get into the generic io's. if they do get into set io's they slot what they drop. and honestly alienone, i wouldn't argue with the goat.
| How does it have "zero" impact if people are buying them for 5 billion? That's an "impact," however minor or light it may be... |
He's scared you into submission too, hasn't he?
Seriously though, that was a number that I just threw out there to prove a point (and to get under goat's skin, because it's just waaay too easy)... However, I have seen one go for close to 2 billion... I could most likely get a screenshot on that figure within a week or two.
Point remains, though. Prices that high are bound to make an impact somewhere. Say, it's the buyer. Say it's the seller. Hell, say it's Joe Shmoe from down the street. An exchange of money like that makes an impact, however small or "slight" it may be. To say any exchange of money of that amount has "zero impact whatsoever" is an economically naive statement, and not one I would expect Nethergoat to make. Unless, of course, he was blinded by an overwhelming rage caused by my avatar.
I don't care who you are. You can't "scare," "threaten," or "insult" anyone away from posting their opinion on these forums. It's against forum rules. And Nethergoat, of all people, should be pretty familiar with those.
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
PvP io's were not aimed at the casual or regular PvE player they were aimed at the PvP'ers. also if it is going to take you a week or 2 to give a photo of that recipe/io going for close to 2 billion either you plan on buying it for that much yourself to try to prove yourself right or plan on photo shopping a pic. you also have to remember that the smart people who use the market list things for a price that will sell quickly and it is the buyer that pays what he wants for it with the "IWANTITNAO" attitude rather then placing a bid and waiting patiently.
and if anyone is getting under anyone's skin, it is goat getting under yours.
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PvP is one of the main motives behind creating dual builds. Players can have a regular build and then a second build crafted specially for PvP combat. | I still don't see your "results." Did you hold a "poll" of some sort? Where are these percentages you're getting? Sure, I'll hand it to 'ya that it isn't "doubled," but I'll also consider your broad, sweeping statements about the CoH community (as if you represent them) as "blather" as well, until I can actually see some verifiable proof. Is providing that so hard to do? Links? Graphs? Posted numbers from Devs? |
Most players in this game refuse to enter PvP zones, hence most players have no use for dual builds.
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| If gamers aren't intended to IO out every character they have, why are those slots there? |
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| Why are there IOs? |
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| What's stopping them from attempting this? |
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| Is there a "cap" to the amount of toons you can IO out that I don't know about? |
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| Link to patch notes plz? |
Log onto the game and go to any one of the 11 servers character creation screen.
There you will find that each server can have up to 36 characters on it per account.
36 characters times eleven servers equals 396 potential character slots.
So the answer to your question:
"Is there a "cap" to the amount of toons you can IO out?"
is 396 "toons".
That's a FANTASTIC idea! Too bad I don't currently possess the funds to just throw around influence like that for no real good reason.
You have some Photoshop techniques you'd like to share? Plz?
That said, I agree. The IWANTITNAO crowd does *seem* to jack the "general" prices up on a regular basis, even though anyone can see in the history of any given Enhancement, Recipe, or Salvage (most of the time) that someone has always gotten it for cheaper because they were patient.
Still... I doubt if anyone posted a 150 million bid for the -Teleport PvP IO, they'd actually get it. Unless you care to Photoshop a pic for me to show one can?
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
don't need to photoshop anything because i don't take screenies. but you also seem to forget that even though certain recipes fall into certain groups some of the set recipes are rarer then others. do us all a favor and go take a nice hot shower to clean off the dead skin from people getting under your skin and calm down a bit and use the thing that is sitting between your ears to comprehend what people are actually saying to you.
Who's gettin' under who's skin? I'm havin' a lot of fun here, not sure about you... I'm not the one making comments to everyone else about feces, dead skin, idiocy, ignorance, and whatever else you guys can come up with to "attempt" to get under my skin...
Nice try, though. That one was pretty good. *golf clap*
"The One"
*EDIT*
*sniff, sniff* Eewww... I do need a shower though... Thnx for the reminder!
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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I think this is a point that people are constantly forgetting in the discussion of IO availability. One that gets me yelled at in-game on occasion. |
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
PvP io's were not aimed at the casual or regular PvE player they were aimed at the PvP'ers.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
also if it is going to take you a week or 2 to give a photo of that recipe/io going for close to 2 billion either you plan on buying it for that much yourself to try to prove yourself right or plan on photo shopping a pic.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
you also have to remember that the smart people who use the market list things for a price that will sell quickly and it is the buyer that pays what he wants for it with the "IWANTITNAO" attitude rather then placing a bid and waiting patiently.
and if anyone is getting under anyone's skin, it is goat getting under yours. |
However, I think we all have to admit that Goat is not giving anything outside of his word to prove these facts, and then telling One that he is full of it for much the same reason (the fact that I think Goat happens to be right in this exchange not withstanding).
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You got me, dammit. :P|
Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
Good point Sharker. Though I don't read any anger into AlienOne's posts... more that he is having fun arguing and poking fun at Goat (right or wrong). [Edit: As I was writing this Alien confirmed my suspicion above]
However, I think we all have to admit that Goat is not giving anything outside of his word to prove these facts, and then telling One that he is full of it for much the same reason (the fact that I think Goat happens to be right in this exchange not withstanding). |
Actually, I think Nethergoat is pretty much correct in his assumptions, regardless of whether or not he prefers to provide actual facts other than his written word... But, flingin' insults at me only encouraged me to antagonize him further...
...sorry. Couldn't help it.
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
As others have stated, one shouldn't speak when they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
Then again... Who am I kidding? Carry on.
"The One"
76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)