Quote:
Exactly.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
If I can't get the name that's fine...I just want to make sure that I can't get the name before using something else.
|
But it wouldn't be the internet if SOMEone didn't read more into it than necessary.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Quote:
Well, if we're talking about account inactivity, NONE of your character names are "vulnerable" as of the point where you reactivate: either they're gone, or they're not.
|
Originally Posted by Speed_Bump
There is no memory to it. When you log in after a name purge, all of your characters are there, with their names. The ones that are vulnerable are faded out. You don't know if you lost the name until you log that character in. If nobody else took the name, you still have it. If someone else took it, you rename the character on the spot.
|
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Quote:
Which changes nothing. The character names were there, but faded. If I had forgotten them, I would have been reminded. If I had lost the names of my favorite characters, I would not have reactivated. This would have cost NCSoft two and a half years worth of subscription, minimum. | Well, if we're talking about account inactivity, NONE of your character names are "vulnerable" as of the point where you reactivate: either they're gone, or they're not. |
Quibble about wording all you want. Taking names from inactive accounts could cost NCSoft money.
I have seen many posts over the years asking for the names of characters on inactive accounts to be released. I have yet to see anyone stating that they would quit the game if they didn't get the names that they wanted.
NCSoft can either take an action that may cost them money, or do nothing, which would cost them nothing.
Unlike major game changes, there is a system in place to purge names if they want to use it. There has only been one name purge that went higher than level 6. After they ended it, NCSoft said that they were not planning to do it again.
It appears to me that NCSoft has chosen to do nothing about this issue.
Not nothing. They have purged the names of lower level toons more than once. They decided that was the right course of action. Personally, given that trial accounts cap at 14, that seems like a logical breakpoint. I mean, you can get a character to level 6 in a matter of minutes. I think they could go higher than level 6 without alienating anyone.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Yes, you are both absolutely right, I am so humbled by your collective righteousness. Obviously I should have left him on the server I started him on, instead of moving him to the server where I have since made most of my in-game friends. Leaving him on a server where I got virtually no play time was obviously the correct decision. Obviously. Thank you so much.
|
Quote:
| And in case another "entitlement" wasn't clear to either of you, it's perfectly okay to reply to a simply-stated opinion with your own, even on the internet. You don't need to prove your masculinity with arrogant sarcasm, oblique accusations and the like. |
The simple fact is, despite knowing that you would not have the name you wanted, you moved to the server anyhow.
If I had logged back in after my absence to find that someone had literally stolen the name "Speed Force" from my character while I was away then it would have been a deal breaker for me (and for others as well, I am certain).
You kept paying for your account despite not getting what you wanted, my account would never have seen another dime if they had implemented what you desire.
Thus the net loss would be to NCSoft's bottom line if they changed the name purge policy to what you requested and frankly that is not in their best interests.
Quote:
I came back to this game.|
Originally Posted by Speed_Force
Soooo I buy the game at launch and give up on it after a month or two due to rampant mapserver disconnects, NPC spawning bugs and other problems but then years later I hear some good things about a new expansion (Villains, AE, etc.) and decide to give it a try again only to log in and find my perfect themed/designed character "Speed Force" has had his name deleted?
You know what happens then? I delete the game from my computer, throw away the discs and NCSoft never sees a dime of my money again for anything they ever publish |
I found my 'special name' was taken.
I shrugged and renamed him with the free tool and continued playing the game without a care.
Why? Because I felt like playing the game at the time.
The name is just that extra chocolate chip in my cookie. Its not required by any means.
Someone who is not paying should not get to keep something over a paying customer. Its fine that they be given a leeway period (I like the months/level idea mentioned earlier).
If someone is so immature that they would throw a fit because they don't have 'Namey Guy!' with the name still on their account (yet they still have Namey Guy) they shouldn't be given providence over the paying customers who are repeatedly frustrated by this issue.
As it stands, people are having a hard time on the stronger servers getting a name for some concepts. Even those with some ingenuity find it hard to come up with some things fitting. Sometimes that vision in your mind requires something very niche.
It all comes down to this for me:
We am paying.
They are not.
Past a leeway period, I don't see why non-payers should be given favor over paying customers.
Quote:
If I come back to the game and find that my fitting, niche, concept character's name has been stolen, then the vision in my mind will not want to continue to play the character or by extension, the game.|
Originally Posted by DragonEye
As it stands, people are having a hard time on the stronger servers getting a name for some concepts. Even those with some ingenuity find it hard to come up with some things fitting. Sometimes that vision in your mind requires something very niche. |
And so you have just helped make my point for me... Thank you.
Quote:
That's the way I see it. If someone's names are really that important to them, maybe they should be using them.
|
Originally Posted by DragonEye
It all comes down to this for me:
We am paying. They are not. |
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
It actually all comes down to this...
They got there first..
You did not...
...and then they left.
We did not.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
Quote:
What it really comes down to is that you were gone for years and your character names were put on the chopping block. ProTip: Your name is only "taken" if someone grabs it, and that character is under a certain level, AND you've been unsubbed for at least a predetermined time period.|
Originally Posted by Speed_Force
It actually all comes down to this...
They got there first.. You did not... |
The developers of this game, and any MMO for that matter, do not guarantee that your characters will remain intact if you stop paying for any length of time. The fact that we have a minimum level for your character to be considered "untouchable" as well as a "grace period" where if you come back to the game, your characters are still exactly as you left them, is far more than they have to do.
It's unfortunate that you apparently had a temper tantrum when "your character" was ruined after being inactive for years, but that's just how it goes. You won't find the situation any different in any other MMO where there is a perceived character naming issue.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
Quote:
I challenge you to name at least three other MMOs within the past 10 years that have had this "Perceived character naming issue" and purged names.|
Originally Posted by _Laxx_
It's unfortunate that you apparently had a temper tantrum when "your character" was ruined after being inactive for years, but that's just how it goes. You won't find the situation any different in any other MMO where there is a perceived character naming issue.
|
The truth is, the industry standard is to not purge names or old accounts. The times that it has happened it is due to massive exodus and is usually part of the death throes of said MMO.
I will grant that name purges may also happen for non-paid accounts or non-subscription MMOs, but that is a very different environment. One that is not concerned with re-activation so much as keeping a constant churn in player base to push micro transactions, ad revenue or new box sales.
Of course this ignores the fact that the Dev's stated after the very first name purge that very few names rolled over and most of the ones that did where in the under 6 category.
Not that your point isn't a valid one, Kith, but those other MMOs are primarily fantasy or sci-fi games. The superhero genre is a little different. Superhero characters are defined by their names, not completely, but much more than your average sword-and-sorcery character. Would Lord of the Rings really be any different if Gandalf were named Aragorn, and Aragorn were named Gandalf? Not really. Sure, it might seem jarring to someone who's always known them by the names they've got now, but if they'd always been that way, would the story be any different? Would the characters be changed in any meaningful way at all?
On the other hand, look at, say, Batman. Sure, there are dozens of other names he could go by, but most of those would change something fundamental about the character, even if it's something as simple as his costume. His name is one of several iconic elements that blend together to make the character what he is, much moreso than a character in a non-superhero genre. It's part of the package; It's one of the factors that make the character, the character.
Like it or not, names are a much, much hotter commodity in a superhero MMO than they are in an MMO based on another genre. Most fantasy names are, let's face it, just a random set of syllables jammed together because they sound interesting or authentic to the person picking out the name. Not so here. Here, names are things that actually matter.
Honestly, I'm not sure which side of this issue I'm helping by pointing this out -- probably both, to a point -- but it needs to be said. Blowing it off as "just a name" isn't really a fair thing to do, whether you're saying that someone who has it already shouldn't be upset at losing it or that someone who wants it and can't have it shouldn't be upset that they're being prevented from getting it by someone who's been gone forever and can't realistically be expected to come back. That's why it's an issue here, even if it's not for other MMOs.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
Quote:
For the record, I meant all of of those factors together. Most people, after a few years, would probably start from scratch rather than go through every step.
|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Numbers 1-4 are irrelevant.
1. You can install the game whether or not you've changed computers 2. You can update your email address in Account Management 3. You can retrieve your username/password (via phone if necessary) 4. You can download the game from the internet Regarding the rest of your post, I don't have an opinion either way. |
Quote:
Whilst I agree with the generals points, how many other MMOs encourage alts to the degree that CoX does ?|
Originally Posted by KithDPine
I challenge you to name at least three other MMOs within the past 10 years that have had this "Perceived character naming issue" and purged names.
The truth is, the industry standard is to not purge names or old accounts. The times that it has happened it is due to massive exodus and is usually part of the death throes of said MMO. I will grant that name purges may also happen for non-paid accounts or non-subscription MMOs, but that is a very different environment. One that is not concerned with re-activation so much as keeping a constant churn in player base to push micro transactions, ad revenue or new box sales. Of course this ignores the fact that the Dev's stated after the very first name purge that very few names rolled over and most of the ones that did where in the under 6 category. |
The fact that players generate more characters, AND use more names per account makes the management of this issue more of a priority than for other games.
I am sure at the very least they will run the current script before GR.
I suspect they will assess and modify that script based on profiles of inactive accounts and the amount of names that would be freed up, but wont go too much further than currently as they will want to entice former customers back with the shiny new Box
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Whilst I agree with the generals points, how many other MMOs encourage alts to the degree that CoX does ?
The fact that players generate more characters, AND use more names per account makes the management of this issue more of a priority than for other games. I am sure at the very least they will run the current script before GR. I suspect they will assess and modify that script based on profiles of inactive accounts and the amount of names that would be freed up, but wont go too much further than currently as they will want to entice former customers back with the shiny new Box |
I am pretty sure they are going to run their script for GR. I would be very surprised if they didn't. The issue I have is a lot of players are gunning to get higher level names targeted, up to and including level 50 characters and the specific argument I was replying to made it sound like name purges are standard operating procedure, which is clearly not the standard business practice of MMOs.
I have no problem with their current purge system heck I think it should be run at least once a year. I also have no problems with purging non-upgraded trial accounts be it every 3, 6, or 12 months. I just think that the names most people are "gunning" for where taking in the first year and held by people above 30 and the current trend is to try to "convince" the dev's to target those names, which as I and others have stated is a bad business practice, more so in light of the fact that a major expansion coming out.
Quote:
I obviously read my own posts. As I said, I was simply "responding in kind" to the prior, unwarranted snark. |
Originally Posted by Speed_Force
Read your own posts much?
The simple fact is, despite knowing that you would not have the name you wanted, you moved to the server anyhow. If I had logged back in after my absence to find that someone had literally stolen the name "Speed Force" from my character while I was away then it would have been a deal breaker for me (and for others as well, I am certain). You kept paying for your account despite not getting what you wanted, my account would never have seen another dime if they had implemented what you desire. Thus the net loss would be to NCSoft's bottom line if they changed the name purge policy to what you requested and frankly that is not in their best interests. |
Anyway, since we seem to be back on "civil"...
And yes, I moved the character anyhow. It was that, or delete him, really. That decision had absolutely nothing to do with my (in)ability to get the name I wanted. Again, to be crystal clear, it was because I no longer had significant opportunities to play him on teams composed of people I know and enjoy playing with. If I personally believed in PLing characters, I'd have created an alternate version of him, under a different name. I simply want to play him, not "play him again", so to speak.
While I've read the entire thread, I can't recall what your specific inactivity was, but I don't recall it even really falling within the scope of the kinda of changes being suggested. Since it's reasonably safe to assume you're referring to a 50, you'd have to have been inactive for roughly 4-5 years. Unless I have missed something significant in the thread, no one is suggesting purging names from active accounts on which certain characters have been inactive. That'd be blatantly stupid.
In any case, this is all just speculative. NC already has a stated position, with no indication that they plan on changing it, which is always a good corporate decision: you don't change it merely at the whims of the customer base.
I suppose what I'd really like is for an email to be sent to the accounts that have been inactive (unpaid, not just unused - I've taken month-long breaks from CoH myself) requesting that, if they don't plan on returning to the game, to please log in (for free, of course) and delete any characters they will forseeably never play again, to free the names up for active players.
And yes, to state the obvious, thus saving someone else from the necessity, I do realize that it won't be received by anyone that has since changed their primary email. Life goes on.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Quote:
Yes, would be very bad form to do this any time before, and for several months after, GR's release.
|
Originally Posted by KithDPine
[snipped]...more so in light of the fact that a major expansion coming out.
|
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Mostly people's answers to this issue have to do with whether they find more attachment to existing, though hardly played, heroes and villains, or to the concepts for yet uncreated ones.
If you're more attached to your concept for a new, about to create character, than you are to the ones you made a long while back but not playing lately (maybe in other games you don't even subscribe to anymore) then you think it is obvious that the devs should make names available from those old, not played in years, no longer subscribed for years accounts.
If you're more attached to your memories of characters you once enjoyed, even if you have absolutely no interest in playing them again now, and have no idea if you will in the next 5 years - but you might - but probably not - then you think it's bad business to take away names, even potentially, from the pool of potential re-subscribers.
I can see both viewpoints. I am mostly in the latter camp myself. I would be upset to know that the level 20ish bard I made, and didn't even enjoy playing that much, in Everquest, which I seriously never plan to play again - and haven't for 5 years - lost his name or was deleted. Yes, I remember the names of most of my low level characters from that game.
I played Star Wars Galaxies briefly in its first year - when was that, 8 years ago now? - and barely got both my Bothan scount Velvit Puffmoose and my Twilek medic Grania up to the 2nd level of their skill trees, but I felt a sense of loss when they were deleted... (I'd made them on my husband's account and he needed the spaces) and still vividly recall their names as you see.
In one actual case, I have been contacted by someone in CoH who desperately wanted a name I had. It was one of my corrupters on Virtue, who I played interimittently every couple weeks and was in the late teens or early 20s at that time (I guess she's late 20s now). Her name was Absinth and I had really been trying for Absinthe but it was taken I also at the same time had made a dominator called Abscinthe but she's already been deleted (I still kind of miss her too... what'dya know... should've kept her on, she had a great concept). Anyway, I had a lot of sympathy so we arranged for him to pay for the rename by giving me a timecard code... and I came up with a name for her that I actually preferred, though that took me a couple weeks at least of thinking.
So in conclusion - use empathy and understand the other side's feelings, rather than dismissing it as them having a too great sense of entitlement. And if it happens to you (in either direction,) spend some time seriously contemplating the character and coming up with something truly unique that fits the spirit - you will in the end possibly like it even better for being one of a kind.
Quote:
Fixed that for you. |
Originally Posted by Speed_Force
It actually all comes down to this...
They got there first.. but then they left You did not... |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
"Industry Standard"? Before CoH, the "industry standard" for an MMO was to have tons and tons of loot, annoyingly large worlds, slow travel speed, and build the game in such a way as to guarantee the player was spending most of their time on their highest-level character (otherwise, they'd never "keep up" with everyone else!).|
Originally Posted by KithDPine
I challenge you to name at least three other MMOs within the past 10 years that have had this "Perceived character naming issue" and purged names.
The truth is, the industry standard is to not purge names or old accounts. The times that it has happened it is due to massive exodus and is usually part of the death throes of said MMO. I will grant that name purges may also happen for non-paid accounts or non-subscription MMOs, but that is a very different environment. One that is not concerned with re-activation so much as keeping a constant churn in player base to push micro transactions, ad revenue or new box sales. Of course this ignores the fact that the Dev's stated after the very first name purge that very few names rolled over and most of the ones that did where in the under 6 category. |
I challenge you to find an MMO currently on the market that has the same type of design as CoH. Those "other games" don't have near the naming issue we have simply because of two things: we're encouraged to make a ton of alts, and a superhero's name is nearly as important as his powers themselves are.
The true "industry standard" is that they reserve the right to do what they want with your account for any reason. If you've been unsubbed for years, I think you've lost your right to complain about some of your names being "stolen".
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Fixed that for you.
|
Quote:
|
It actually all comes down to this... They got there first.. but then they left... but could still come back.. You did not... but you just as easily could leave tomorrow... So the names will be left alone... And you can just find something else to name your new character instead... |
Fixed your "fixing"...
Quote:
All of those things are game theory and not business policy. |
Originally Posted by _Laxx_
"Industry Standard"? Before CoH, the "industry standard" for an MMO was to have tons and tons of loot, annoyingly large worlds, slow travel speed, and build the game in such a way as to guarantee the player was spending most of their time on their highest-level character (otherwise, they'd never "keep up" with everyone else!).
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by _Laxx_
I challenge you to find an MMO currently on the market that has the same type of design as CoH. Those "other games" don't have near the naming issue we have simply because of two things: we're encouraged to make a ton of alts, and a superhero's name is nearly as important as his powers themselves are.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by _Laxx_
The true "industry standard" is that they reserve the right to do what they want with your account for any reason. If you've been unsubbed for years, I think you've lost your right to complain about some of your names being "stolen".
|
Quote:
1) Irrelevant|
Originally Posted by Backhand
And what are the chances that someone who hasn't subcribed for 4+ years still :
1. Has the same computer with the game still installed 2. Has the same email address because you know... 3. Has forgotten the username/password 4. has the original install discs 5. Remembers the names of every toon on the account |
2) Irrelevant
3) Given normal habits, not likely. Most people tend to use the same login/password for all of their non-critical/leisure accounts or very similar ones.
4) Irrelevant, as the client can be downloaded online.
5) All of them? Not likely. Most? Reasonably likely. Their favorites? Absolutely guaranteed. And their favorites aren't necessarily going to be level 50s.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then what you do is set up an automatic payment using your debit/credit card. That way your account stays active the entire time you are on deployment/assignment and when you return you'll have accrued all those nifty vet rewards.
|
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
As my old editor used to tell me, "Failure to prepare on your part should not constitute an emergency on my part." Just substitute "my" with "Devs" or "Other players".
Now that were on the same moral and intellectual footing, I *did* research the name before I moved him... and *left* him on the server on which he was fundamentally inactive for over a month while I considered many perfectly acceptable alternate names. None of which are "his". I'd simply like to keep the name he was "born" with, and (gasp) I *have* tried contacting the current name-holder to see if they were still using, with no response.
Regarding the comment "They paid the same money that you did to both purchase the game and to subscribe for as long as they were playing", since when did we start talking about taking names from active subscribers? I didn't have any problems reading the thread title, but I understand if, in your rush to take the "moral high ground", you might have forgotten it.
"I don't have a problem with losing character names on my own account, in accordance with any clearly-stated account inactivity policy that defines how and when that might occur."
After all, I'm not using anything that "belongs" to me in any real sense. I'm not trying to "steal" anything that belongs to anyone else. It would be nice if they (Paragon/NCSoft) had a way of fairly freeing up names that are no longer in use, regardless of character level.
And in case another "entitlement" wasn't clear to either of you, it's perfectly okay to reply to a simply-stated opinion with your own, even on the internet. You don't need to prove your masculinity with arrogant sarcasm, oblique accusations and the like.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.