Not another word about Dim Shift and Cottage Rules

<QR>

Entering the thread to try and be constructive, I'm wondering: What would be considered a change that doesn't evoke or violate the 'Cottage Rule'? Specifically, what are we looking at as possible avenues of change to Dimension Shift that will still keep it as Dimension Shift but be more useful?

Would changing the fundamental way the power activates (i.e. being a ST power or a targeted summon) or the type of power (a passive or a toggle, etc) be a possibility? Obviously, adding effects to the base power and/or altering the stats like duration or range are within the limits so altering it to a 100% accuracy intangibility with an extremely short duration isn't a problem.

So what if Dimension Shift was a targeted summon that created a pet/field that phased anyone (friend or foe) that walked into it? A 15-20ft ranged area, with a phase that lasted .8sec and the summoned pet would cast intangibility on anyone in range every .33sec. What it'd create is a cage to fight. If you're inside, foes outside shooting in have no effect. Foes that are inside shooting out have no effect. It could be leveraged in different ways and meshes well with powers in Gravity (sounds awesome to create a pocket dimension then wormhole foes into it, applying an AoE immobilize before you do).

I guess that begs the question of does it not violate the cottage rule (it's still an AoE intangibility power and nothing more), does it solve Gravity Control's issues with AoE control (I can think of several applications for the power myself) and how badly would it upset the current users of Dimension Shift.

I guess there's also the whole "can it be implemented" question too...

Leo_G, that's a cool idea. I like it and I think it'd be extremely handy and unique.

BUT. I don't know if it'd fly under the "expanded cottage", though. Looking at powers that have been changed, what seems to be part of the rule is that a power has the same interface as it used to, and the same effects as it used to (although varying in degree), and may also have an additional effect. Frozen Aura, a PBAoE sleep power, remained a PBAoE and a sleep, and a damage effect was added. Clobber, a ST melee stun and minor damage power, remained a ST melee attack and a stun (for shorter duration) and its damage was greatly increased. Conserve Power, a self-affecting click buff with a -endurance cost effect, remains a self-affecting click buff and kept its -endurance cost, and gains a self-heal and regeneration effect. Based on these examples, it's reasonable to conclude that any change to Dim Shift will likely keep it as a targeted AoE that phases its targets for some duration.

The reason I mentioned intangibility enhancements earlier is that if Dim Shift's intangibility were enhanceable, it might be reasonable to as much as halve Dim Shift's intangibility duration and say that those who use Dim Shift situationally for the phase could still enhance it back to its former performance. My general stance is that viable changes to Dim Shift would:
- Preserve its current function to a degree usable by those who currently use Dim Shift
- Reduce Dim Shift's drawbacks and add advantages for those who currently do not use Dim Shift
- Make the phase effect less obnoxious to teammates

That's just my opinion, but I feel it's well backed.

I dunno, have you ever seen most teams' reaction to Nightwidows?

disappearing enemies --- probably not a good thing

True, but:
A. Night Widow Blind lasts 60 seconds, not 5-10.
B. If you could see the enemies through Blind, you'd be able to hurt them. An attack on a Dim Shifted enemy is always a wasted attack.
C. A visual indicator points to where the enemies will be appearing, in one big pile. Drop patches, ready PBAoEs and cones.

It'd take some getting used to, but not more than anchor debuffs.

The "Cottage Rule" (what a name..) was designed to protect powers, so that otherwise good powers would not be changed and confuse people.

Really, saying that Dimension Shift shouldn't be changed because of the "Cottage Rule" I consider to be a manipulation of the rules true intent, especially as Gravity is the worse control set in the game and Dimension Shift is a key reason for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville The spirit of the rule applied to dimension shift states that before the devs change the power to something else completely different, it must first be demonstrated that the power itself is problematic (debatable, but at least a reasonable assertion).

Arcanville you are a clever person and I know you know that Dimension Shift is a bad power, but at least let me try explain it to you form my perspective.

The power is problematic because:
I) Dimension Shift causes foes to be unattackable for 30 seconds, it has no use on a team which is doing well.
II) Dimension Shift is therefore only usable as an escape tool to pause or halt combat.
III) Dimension Shift can not be stopped, the team must wait for the full duration to initiate combat. This often slows down a team and is counter-productive.
IV) A lot of people do not understand what Dimension Shift actually does, by the time you've finished explaining to people what has happened, how it works and why you've decided to single handedly stop combat, the phase has almost ended.
V) The Gravity set as a whole relies heavily on single target powers. With the exception of Crushing Field, Dimension Shift is the first AoE control power it has access to. Due to this, Gravity is found lacking early on,

There are more arguments, such as the lack of intangiblity sets but still, I think this is enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville that the suggested change would be beneficial and resolve the problem (not difficult),

Potentially, changing Dimension Shift could completely change the way Gravity plays. The popular suggestion is a "Reverse Gravity Field", something akin to Ice Slick but knockup not knockdown. It could take a power that is often skipped, on a set that is overlooked and performing badly and really change it.

Is this not reason enough? What are trying to do here, fix issues regarding Gravity or deliberately adhering to a rule despite all the signs and numbers and experiences staring us in the face? I mean, what is it goign to have to take, seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville and no other suggestion that preserves the intangibility aspect of the power is likely to work. The last part is the difficult hurdle, and I did suggest a possible way to address the problems of foe intangible powers without eliminating the actual foe intangibility aspect of the power for people who use it as such. So I believe its not true that all other possible solutions have been reasonably addressed.

I think you need to remember the amount of Dev time that has already gone into Dimension Shift. It has changed many times since Issue 1, not that many people would notice because no one ever chooses it.

I) An immobalization effect was added to stop Shifted enemies from running around amongst the team trying to attack but being unable to.

II) Graphical effects were increased to make it more "visual" since people complained it was hard to tell when Dimension Shift was used. This wasn't enough.

III) Intangibility enhancements were changed so that instead of increasing duration which was thought to be a redundent effect, they would increase magnitude. Statesman (I think it was Statesman) stated that this was so that Gravity controllers could decide wether they wanted it to effect bosses or not or even Archvillains I guess. I haven't seen this work in my experiences and actually, even without enhancements Dimension Shift still captures Bosses sometimes.

IV) The words "Dimension Shift!" were added as overtext to further help distinguish between shifted targets, however in my experiences (as recent as today) all this has caused is people grunting and moaning immediately after it is used rather then 10 seconds later when they realise it has taken effect.

V) Any changes I've missed when I was away.

I mean, it has been 5 years. Is this the best the Devs can do?

If the Devs are really determined on keeping its functionality as a fight pauser, why not change it to an AoE Sleep? It has a similar effect, but gives Gravity more control and utility atleast its something. You could fit it in thematically similar to Flash Freeze and Salt Crystals.

Your mastery of gravity allows you to manipulate dimensions, bringing multiple foes out of sync with reality. Any harmful attack will cause these foes to return to normal space.

Thanks for reading.

Dim shift could do with being a 33 eps toggle that once clicked off has its rechg started after when the maximum duration is up. 60 sec recharge.

Hey look, they changed the power order too for electric armor for heroes.

Another reason it should be okay to do something with Dim Shift like swap it with Wormhole.

From mmorpg.com Floyd says:

"During testing, we realized that Energize came too late in the lifetime of a character to truly be useful, so for the new versions of the powerset, we swapped the progression of Lightning Reflexes and Energize."

Asking to switch the order of Dimesion Shift and Wormhole is a much more reasonable request.

I however still think it's a bad idea.

Except they're not changing the existing armours for brutes and stalkers.

Yet, of course.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect