Windows 7 Not Ready!
By
AthenaRly,
Posted on: 2009-08-05 13:56 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
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Originally Posted by CuppaManga
I tested the Windows 7 Release Candidate with City of Heroes over the past month and made the following observations:
- I only got one CoH patch to complete successfully. The rest failed, and got stuck in a loop where it would keep "Fixing Files" forever. I had to solve the problem by copying the files over from my Mac CoH client. Running the Updater as Administrator didn't help, nor did messing with the permissions. - Very low framerates and very high lag with an nVidia 9800 GT, which shouldn't happen. On a medium sized team, even the simplest visual effects would slow the game down to a slideshow. Yes, I was using the official nVidia driver and not Microsoft's. - Instability, the game would crash or freeze several times a week so that the entire system would no longer respond (requiring a hard reset). - Switching back to Vista miraculously solved all the above problems. It looks like Windows 7 is not yet ready for CoH. |
That sucks. I was looking forward to win7.
I would say drivers issue then, CoH been running here since Beta version (early this year?) and still going strong. And for once.. my X-fi worked with the very first driver installed, now that i call a miracle alone 
Are u using the NClauncher thingie?
Now if there would be something bad, that would be the Family pack not going to be sold in Europe, only US so far i know. Other than that, Windows 7 for me is what Vista should have been.
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Well that's odd, because I've been using the Win7 RC for almost three months now without so much as a problem, save for a video driver update issue (an nVidia problem that I was able to roll back).|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
I tested the Windows 7 Release Candidate with City of Heroes over the past month and made the following observations:
- I only got one CoH patch to complete successfully. The rest failed, and got stuck in a loop where it would keep "Fixing Files" forever. I had to solve the problem by copying the files over from my Mac CoH client. Running the Updater as Administrator didn't help, nor did messing with the permissions. - Very low framerates and very high lag with an nVidia 9800 GT, which shouldn't happen. On a medium sized team, even the simplest visual effects would slow the game down to a slideshow. Yes, I was using the official nVidia driver and not Microsoft's. - Instability, the game would crash or freeze several times a week so that the entire system would no longer respond (requiring a hard reset). - Switching back to Vista miraculously solved all the above problems. It looks like Windows 7 is not yet ready for CoH. |
So I don't know what to say. Sucks to be you? J/K, but I think it might be a problem pretaining to your specific build more than the RC. Hell, I think the game runs better on my Win7 build than XP.
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Originally Posted by Obsidius
Hell, I think the game runs better on my Win7 build than XP.
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From what I've read Win7 takes up LESS resources than XP. I'm shocked, impressed and excited.
My best guess is they threw all the old code out and redid it if they were able to make this good.
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I dont think less, but more efficient.|
Originally Posted by Chaos_Creator
From what I've read Win7 takes up LESS resources than XP. I'm shocked, impressed and excited.
My best guess is they threw all the old code out and redid it if they were able to make this good. |
Tomorow at work we'll going for the big trial, 5 year old laptops are gonna get the RC
(1.8ghz Celeron with 512MB memory and shared-mem videocard).
If it runs smooth, then i am serious conviced Win7 is better then XP.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Windows 7 and CoH work just fine together. If it's not working for you, there is clearly an issue with your setup. Either the drivers for a piece of your hardware has not been upgraded to Windows 7 standards or a driver is just not functioning properly.
We'll see....
I've also been running COH on Windows 7 for a month or so with no trouble. Was running with a Nvidia 8800 and last week upgraded to a GTX 275, no troubles with either video card. In fact I was doing a little dual instancing at 1920x1200 with no headaches.
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I had a problem that sounded just like this under XP. Turned out to be a disk error. Running the disk check utility made it go away.
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Originally Posted by CuppaManga
- I only got one CoH patch to complete successfully. The rest failed, and got stuck in a loop where it would keep "Fixing Files" forever. I had to solve the problem by copying the files over from my Mac CoH client. Running the Updater as Administrator didn't help, nor did messing with the permissions.
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Tell us how that goes, please. Every source I've seen has been absolutely raving about Win7.
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Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU
I dont think less, but more efficient.
Tomorow at work we'll going for the big trial, 5 year old laptops are gonna get the RC (1.8ghz Celeron with 512MB memory and shared-mem videocard). If it runs smooth, then i am serious conviced Win7 is better then XP. |
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From the guides and videos I've seen of Windows 7 running on older hardware, there's a lot to rave about. Windows 7 is a step in a very nice direction. It's not often these days Microsoft is praised, this time it's very much worth it |
Originally Posted by Chaos_Creator
Tell us how that goes, please. Every source I've seen has been absolutely raving about Win7.
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We'll see....
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It's a setup that worked great with Vista, so comparatively it should work great with Windows 7 too. Both in the case of the Vista install and the Windows 7 install I started with a clean format.|
Originally Posted by Flameshot
Windows 7 and CoH work just fine together. If it's not working for you, there is clearly an issue with your setup. Either the drivers for a piece of your hardware has not been upgraded to Windows 7 standards or a driver is just not functioning properly.
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Nvidia 9800 GT (185.85 official nvidia drivers), Intel Core2Duo 2.8 ghz, 4 gigs of RAM.
The Windows 7 RC disc I got came as an extra with an OEM version of Vista Home Premium, so it was legit - not some version downloaded off the internet. I also fully patched it until there were nothing but languages left in Windows Update.
The point, though, is that if I managed to have problems with a by-the-book install (thankfully I was able to *play* CoH at least) on a computer designed to run Vista, there will be a hundred times as many at the Windows 7 launch.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Flameshot
Windows 7 and CoH work just fine together. If it's not working for you, there is clearly an issue with your setup. Either the drivers for a piece of your hardware has not been upgraded to Windows 7 standards or a driver is just not functioning properly.
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Originally Posted by CuppaManga
It's a setup that worked great with Vista, so comparatively it should work great with Windows 7 too.
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I encourage anyone who wants more information about Windows 7 to visit the following thread.
Windows 7 and City of Heroes
.
.Driver Sweeper * CohHelper * HijackThis * TweakCoH * CPU-ID
* Defraggler * Program Security Scan * PC Performance Scan *
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I'd like to think you're intelligent enough to understand that Vista and 7 are two different operating systems, and although yes they should be very similar in terms of software compatibility, there are differences and there certainly are different drivers.|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
It's a setup that worked great with Vista, so comparatively it should work great with Windows 7 too. Both in the case of the Vista install and the Windows 7 install I started with a clean format.
Nvidia 9800 GT (185.85 official nvidia drivers), Intel Core2Duo 2.8 ghz, 4 gigs of RAM. The Windows 7 RC disc I got came as an extra with an OEM version of Vista Home Premium, so it was legit - not some version downloaded off the internet. I also fully patched it until there were nothing but languages left in Windows Update. The point, though, is that if I managed to have problems with a by-the-book install (thankfully I was able to *play* CoH at least) on a computer designed to run Vista, there will be a hundred times as many at the Windows 7 launch. |
Just because it didn't work on your machine properly, does not mean a blanket statement such as "Windows 7 Not Ready!" is warranted. I'm sure if you asked for some assistance, someone here could help you find a solution.
That being said, I'd like to point out I simply installed Windows 7 (clean install), installed my video drivers and then installed City of Heroes and had 0 issues. It ran right off the bat. Your issue is with a piece of your hardware and probably the drivers you're using for said hardware. Plain and simple. It's not necessarily anything YOU'RE doing, so don't take this so personally. The manufacturer of the issue drivers may not have created a fix yet.
We'll see....
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Nice, start by insulting our Mac specialist but tack a disclaimer on the end so you don't appear to be a complete [self censored].
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Originally Posted by Flameshot
I'd like to think you're intelligent enough to understand that Vista and 7 are two different operating systems ... It's not necessarily anything YOU'RE doing, so don't take this so personally.
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Like I said, each time I started over from scratch. Clean format, downloaded new Windows 7 drivers, etc. Supposedly Windows 7 should behave at least as well as Vista, since the hardware was the same and the generation of drivers was the same.|
Originally Posted by Flameshot
I'd like to think you're intelligent enough to understand that Vista and 7 are two different operating systems, and although yes they should be very similar in terms of software compatibility, there are differences and there certainly are different drivers.
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Originally Posted by Flameshot
Just because it didn't work on your machine properly, does not mean a blanket statement such as "Windows 7 Not Ready!" is warranted. I'm sure if you asked for some assistance, someone here could help you find a solution.
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Originally Posted by Flameshot
That being said, I'd like to point out I simply installed Windows 7 (clean install), installed my video drivers and then installed City of Heroes and had 0 issues. It ran right off the bat. Your issue is with a piece of your hardware and probably the drivers you're using for said hardware. Plain and simple. It's not necessarily anything YOU'RE doing, so don't take this so personally. The manufacturer of the issue drivers may not have created a fix yet.
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Pretty much everything on this PC is supported by both Vista and Windows 7 except the Realtek driver in Vista is terrible, so I replaced it there. The Win 7 Realtek driver works great so I left that alone. So nothing too unusual hardware-wise.
Otherwise, the two installs were functionally identical.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
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You mentioned you were using some of the 185.XX set drivers? If I remember correctly that set of drivers was having problems interacting with City on certain setups, as are the 190.XX drivers. I've got a 9800 GTX+ myself, and I've been running the 181.71 drivers without so much as a hiccup myself, and I've been running Win 7 since the beta opened in January. With the nVidia cards you some times have to go back a few versions to find a stable version that works with City.
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Odd, I've had the opposite results. I've run CoH under both the Win7 beta and RC, and it's been nothing but flawless. Dual booting XP, I'm seeing comparable performance between them. |
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
I tested the Windows 7 Release Candidate with City of Heroes over the past month and made the following observations:
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You must have had some driver issues, which is unfortunate. Win7 is the first Windows OS I will willingly upgrade to as soon as it's available.
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Some of it might be, but that doesn't account for either the patches failing or the background application instability - a few times a week CoH will still be running but the taskbar/desktop will be unreachable until I do a reset.
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Originally Posted by Tradok
You must have had some driver issues, which is unfortunate. Win7 is the first Windows OS I will willingly upgrade to as soon as it's available.
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Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
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If that's how you read it, that's fine. But you would be incorrect in your assumption that I was trying to be insulting.
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Originally Posted by FatherXmas
Nice, start by insulting our Mac specialist but tack a disclaimer on the end so you don't appear to be a complete [self censored].
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We'll see....
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You didn't say that no. But you definitely implied it by using that statement. There are several on these boards that have been running it just fine. Sure some have had issues, but that's no different than anyone on any OS. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this, it may not work properly on your machine but that doesn't mean it's "not ready". Using a statement like that would make perfect sense had there not been so many already running it just fine.|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
I didn't say "don't use Windows 7", just that it's not ready yet.
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I apologize if I came off a bit snarky. That wasn't my intention. I was just confused as to why you would consider and entire operating system as "not ready" (even if just in terms of this game) when there is evidence to the contrary.
I really do hope you're able to resolve this issue though, so you can see just how well it really does work.
We'll see....
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Hi. I'm Necrotron, and I approve this message.|
Originally Posted by Flameshot
Windows 7 and CoH work just fine together. If it's not working for you, there is clearly an issue with your setup. Either the drivers for a piece of your hardware has not been upgraded to Windows 7 standards or a driver is just not functioning properly.
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Originally Posted by FatherXmas
Nice, start by insulting our Mac specialist but tack a disclaimer on the end so you don't appear to be a complete [self censored].
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Flameshot is absolutely right. You cannot make blanket statements when you are alone in your problems. I have ran Windows Vista 64-bit from release date, through Service Pack 1, through the painful puberty and adolescence of the drivers, onto Windows 7 x64 Beta, and now the Windows 7 x64 Release Candidate. My computer is a highly overclocked machine which is as stable as a house of cards in a tornado. By rights, nothing should work, but for me, every single OS has been absolutely rock-solid. Any problem that I have found has been my own damned fault. I have seen my mistakes, fixed them, and moved on; I have not come to a forum to whine about how Microsoft do unmentionables with goats.At this point you might think that I'm insulting Cuppa. Far from it, he seems perfectly reasonable to me. No, I'm talking about other, less intelligent forums, and the people who use them. Some people exist only to whine, I swear of it. On the other hand, Cuppa seems like someone who has a problem and is merely getting frustrated. I do that too, more often than I'd like.
Now, CuppaManga. You seem to be having some problems with CoH. I would suggest that you investigate your nVidia drivers. Perhaps you should install the 185.85 set. Uninstall your existing drivers first in the device manager, then use these, assuming you're on 64-bit. That should solve your crashes and low framerates. As for your issues with patching, I can only suggest that you start from scratch rather than keeping an installation leftover from Vista. Make a backup of your CoH files, delete the originals, install Win 7, copy them over to C:\City of Heroes, then run the updater as you would normally do. If this doesn't fix your problem, give me details about your motherboard and I'll investigate further.
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I have to agree. I haven't had any of those problems on the Windows 7 RC, but I'm using an ATI Radeon 3200 HD graphics card and a AMD Turion X2 64-Bit processor.|
Originally Posted by Flameshot
Windows 7 and CoH work just fine together. If it's not working for you, there is clearly an issue with your setup. Either the drivers for a piece of your hardware has not been upgraded to Windows 7 standards or a driver is just not functioning properly.
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I think they exact opposite has happened with me. I recieved less crashing and my computer actually had less of a load and stayed cooler longer with Windows 7 and CoH.
OP
If you are coping things over from your mac, there might be formating or spacing issues with the files and are causing the problem. Windows and Mac os dont use the same end of line string. Some apps take that into account but not all programs should be required to take that into account.
I would do like others avise and check your drivers. You seem to be out numbers with your failures over those of us who use win7 with better results than vista. All of the things you say happen in win7, I have gotten in Vista.
also claming you have a legit copy of windows 7 shows you dont really know that it is free for everyone in the beta/RC form. Just because you got a version from a vender doesnt mean its a good copy.
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As I said above, I was using the 185.85 drivers, and I started the Windows 7 install with a clean format (booted from the disc and formatted the partition). I also mentioned that every piece of hardware I have was supported by Windows 7 - I didn't need to download any drivers. I downloaded the nVidia one, though, because nVidia's official drivers are usually better.|
Originally Posted by Necrotron
Now, CuppaManga. You seem to be having some problems with CoH. I would suggest that you investigate your nVidia drivers. Perhaps you should install the 185.85 set. Uninstall your existing drivers first in the device manager, then use these, assuming you're on 64-bit. That should solve your crashes and low framerates. As for your issues with patching, I can only suggest that you start from scratch rather than keeping an installation leftover from Vista. Make a backup of your CoH files, delete the originals, install Win 7, copy them over to C:\City of Heroes, then run the updater as you would normally do. If this doesn't fix your problem, give me details about your motherboard and I'll investigate further.
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This is the motherboard I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813136055
I should also say the problems I had weren't critical failures. I had a decent system for working around the patching problems (which obviously aren't related to the nVidia drivers), the crashes weren't exactly daily, and I could have probably waited out the nVidia problems until they released better drivers.
But, I realized a few things, which led me to make the declaration that Windows 7 isn't quite ready:
1. First, it's a pre-release right now, and when it is released, nearly all of us are going to have to go through another complete re-install, both to get a clean system and because the pre-release is "Ultimate", and most people are going to effectively downgrade to "Home Basic" or "Home Premium".
2. Microsoft could still make some substantial changes before it hits release.
3. The average CoH player is more likely to install pretty much the same way I did, only probably less cleanly (they may upgrade directly from Vista, XP, etc). If I had problems doing that on all supported hardware, multiply that times a few hundred at least the day Windows 7 ships.
4. It's quite possible that even though I took precautions to make sure the install would be good, I still could have had a bad install. Windows can be unpredictable that way, especially with a pre-release. But then you have to refer to (3) above again.
In summary, I probably could have got it working - maybe - if I tried reinstalling Windows 7 and everything *again*. Or it's possible I even have to get into upgrading BIOS, video card firmware, etc. But then we get into territory where a normal person who doesn't know that stuff would be unable to do an install like this successfully, and the only answer they'll get here is likely LOL BUY A NEW PC.
My post wasn't to say Windows 7 sucks, just that it's not quite ready unless you're the adventurous type. The final release will probably be different, and I'll re-test it then.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
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All of those possibilities were covered and tested during the CoH Mac Beta. It fortunately doesn't present any issues.|
Originally Posted by prvtslacker
If you are coping things over from your mac, there might be formating or spacing issues with the files and are causing the problem. Windows and Mac os dont use the same end of line string. Some apps take that into account but not all programs should be required to take that into account.
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Originally Posted by prvtslacker
also claming you have a legit copy of windows 7 shows you dont really know that it is free for everyone in the beta/RC form. Just because you got a version from a vender doesnt mean its a good copy.
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Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
I tested the Windows 7 Release Candidate with City of Heroes over the past month and made the following observations:
- I only got one CoH patch to complete successfully. The rest failed, and got stuck in a loop where it would keep "Fixing Files" forever. I had to solve the problem by copying the files over from my Mac CoH client. Running the Updater as Administrator didn't help, nor did messing with the permissions.
- Very low framerates and very high lag with an nVidia 9800 GT, which shouldn't happen. On a medium sized team, even the simplest visual effects would slow the game down to a slideshow. Yes, I was using the official nVidia driver and not Microsoft's.
- Instability, the game would crash or freeze several times a week so that the entire system would no longer respond (requiring a hard reset).
- Switching back to Vista miraculously solved all the above problems.
It looks like Windows 7 is not yet ready for CoH.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination