Windows 7 Not Ready!

No one is bullying you. No one is trying to sweep things under the rug. You need to calm down and step back a bit.

You came in here yelling WINDOWS 7 IS NOT READY. Several people tried to help you isolate the problem. A couple jumped on you. They got yelled at. You insisted (and keep insisting) that everything should work out of the box. Other folks, including me, say it does. You say this doesn't matter, since it didn't work for you. We've tried to show how this is an invalid viewpoint, and now you're playing victim.

So let's lay this out, shall we?

Just because everything didn't work out of the box for you doesn't mean that Windows 7 isn't ready for average users.

1) First off, we're using the Release Candidate version of 7. Unfinished code. There have been a number of fixes between RC1 and RTM, and from what I've heard from Technet folks I'm acquainted with, the final version of 7 is even better than the RCs. (Hell of an accomplishment, MS, gotta hand it to you.) There is every possibility that the crash problems you're having are a result of something in the RC that's been fixed for release. Do we know for sure? No. But that doubt needs to be factored in to any equation regarding usability.

2) "It doesn't work for me, ergo it's not ready" is a logical fallacy. And one that's been quickly disproven several times over this thread, and in the number of other Win7 support threads here on the forums. Now, you're finally coming around on this one. You said in your last post that "My point is, based on my experience I wouldn't recommend it." That's great, but that wasn't your point in your earlier posts. You said "It looks like Windows 7 is not yet ready for CoH", "The point, though, is that if I managed to have problems with a by-the-book install (thankfully I was able to *play* CoH at least) on a computer designed to run Vista, there will be a hundred times as many at the Windows 7 launch", "I didn't say "don't use Windows 7", just that it's not ready yet.", etc.

It's fine that you're now going to be basing recommendations off of your experience. You do need to remember, though, that other people's experiences do not mirror yours.

3) People have been trying to help you out here, and you've been rebuffing them on all fronts. "It should just work out of the box" just isn't a reality on Windows, and you know this. And certainly getting upset because a game doesn't work properly while running on release candidate code, and you're not willing to chase down a problem, isn't exactly a working viewpoint either. I think I have a solution for your patching problems, it's something I ran into with other online patchers in Win7. But so far you seem uninterested in solving your problems, so I haven't wanted to waste my time. I'd be more than happy to try to help you, as are others in this thread.

4) If you want to feel like you're being dumped on, go right ahead. But when you espouse a viewpoint, then put your fingers in your ears when other people try to convince you otherwise, you don't get to claim bullying. Sorry.

Look, there are people in this thread who would still like to help you out with your problems. Certainly the hard locks are something major, I'm leaning towards a chipset driver issue on that one. But you have to want help for folks to be able to give it to you. And if that's not the case, well, this whole discussion was a colossal waste of time.

Ok, I feel a little bad now because some people *were* trying to be helpful and I didn't express that I *do* appreciate the help. I'm sorry that help was overshadowed by my responses to people who insist that because it's working perfectly for them, the only possible conclusion is that I must be lying.

I also left out an important piece of information: I switched back to Vista not because I hated Windows 7 - the thought of switching back killed me - but because my first worry *was* that I had hardware going bad (video card, hard drive, or otherwise). I made the decision to install Vista again and see if the problems persisted, but they didn't. That's where I drew the line between a hardware and a software problem.

After that, I decided to stay with Vista for now because I was reluctant to reinstall Windows 7 and spend possibly weeks mucking around with it at this point, because, let's be honest, first installs of a new OS always involves weeks of mucking around until you can build an archive of good drivers and software - and then have the release candidate expire and have to do it all again.

And even if I do get Windows 7 working stable and well-behaved, there's still that CoH patching issue not even NC Support knows how to fix yet. Which in itself is a big reason not to recommend Windows 7 to average players yet - there's not much support available right now.

As for some of the other points:

- The problems I had with Windows 7 were relatively minor, except for the CoH patching issue and the occasional hard crash. I probably could have tolerated them until fixes came along, but I already had installed Vista to make sure I didn't have a hardware issue so I may as well stick with it for now.

- There's a huge gap between "works out of the box" and "takes days of tinkering to get it to work, and even when you think it does, you have more tinkering to do". The latter is a huge pain and will reduce anyone not familiar with troubleshooting and PC's to tears. At the very least, Windows 7 should aim somewhere in between, hopefully closer to works out of the box. Ironically, the fact that so many people offered me driver help, no offense, points the release candidate more toward the tinkering side right now.

- Microsoft does hear about problems I've encountered.

- I do agree that Windows 7 is close enough that it doesn't need *drastic* changes to alleviate the issues I have, meaning the build being printed on CD's for sale might have already fixed them. Unfortunately, I won't have one until November.

- The only bullying I referred to is the person who added a rather disrespectful and immature "tag" to this thread (see the bottom of the thread when reading it), and the ones who voted and gave me a negative forum rep, complete with rude comments. It's the internet equivalent of throwing rotten vegetables.

I will add this bit, I also had some problems with the RC of Windows 7, some of those problems were with COH, and I went back to Vista Ultimate (x64). When the RTM was released in TechNet yesterday, went ahead and downloaded it and did an upgrade to Windows 7 Ultimate (yeah, I know, I know), and it's like night and day. After the install, everything worked perfectly, including COH, no driver problems, and all this on a HP Pavilion Dv7-1285dx, so I would just say, stick with Vista and wait a couple of months for the retail release

I have Windows 7 on my p4 3.2 system with nvidia video card running no problems with CoH or any other game/program.
I have installed Windows 7 on my 2 new machines with Ati Video card and still not a problem.
so i dont know what the OP is saying or doing to his system to make it run like crap.
oh wait thats right he might be boot camped on a Mac not really the system to test a PC software on when it isnt released yet.

I know the Final Version Of Win7 is released, in a way, but people are still downloading the Beta Version not the Full Release. And the Drivers are still due to change. They always will be. And CoH isn't going to Compensate for those slight changes because they are almost weekly (Or were they slowed way down the last month)

The Nvidia Driver, newest, is unstable so they suggest to use the vista driver. So yeah I agree with the Fact some arnt having any trouble with the standard Win7 Drivers (I havnt had many) but My Suggestion was that if you really wanted to run the game and were having problem Download the Vista ones they are stable!

And on with this point, I love Win7 it's the best thing since Styrofoam Packing Peanuts, but the more direct point Manga was trying to point out is the OS isn't really ready for most people who DON'T wanna try to figure out why something isn't working.

And if this doesn't get across to you guys who just wanna flame on someone fine, Direct it at me all you want. I'm already telling you I love the OS, I upgraded my Laptop and Desktop with the Dev Build of it, plus My new Computer will have Ultimate. So I agree it's an awsome system, just not ready for some People which is what Manga was trying to say!

[QUOTE=Pr_mus;2092324]

2) "It doesn't work for me, ergo it's not ready" is a logical fallacy. And one that's been quickly disproven several times over this thread, and in the number of other Win7 support threads here on the forums. Now, you're finally coming around on this one. You said in your last post that "My point is, based on my experience I wouldn't recommend it." That's great, but that wasn't your point in your earlier posts. You said "It looks like Windows 7 is not yet ready for CoH", "The point, though, is that if I managed to have problems with a by-the-book install (thankfully I was able to *play* CoH at least) on a computer designed to run Vista, there will be a hundred times as many at the Windows 7 launch", "I didn't say "don't use Windows 7", just that it's not ready yet.", etc.

It's fine that you're now going to be basing recommendations off of your experience. You do need to remember, though, that other people's experiences do not mirror yours.

[QUOTE]

Actaully whats kinda funny is that CoH isn't really ready for Windows 7 Because of push back dates on release, even though they may be passing out RC's with computers now at some places. NcSoft and other people are working to make support availible to Win7 Users, but ya gotta thing the Actual Release date isn't for a while so they are still taking their time fixing current issues with the Major OS's that are covering the Market.

I'm sure though everyone is prepairing for Win7 to completely Take Vista off the Market (Since most people including myself got free upgrade from Vista to Win7 with new Computer purchase) So Everyone will come along eventually.

And right now, I am agreeing with the fact that Maybe Manga (DON'T HURT ME) shoulda called this Post Win7 Not ready For the Avg Gamer, Or something close to that, only because of certain issues people are having that are having to be explained by others. It was the same with Windows Vista though, Remember that annoying bug with CoH that had no mouse on Vista. That was great! Anyway they fixed it after what a week. We just have to wait for that.

So if you don't care for the tinkering and some of the delays, WIN7 Rules. Otherwise till March stick with Vista and XP, they work just fine.

DarkFaith Quote: And as for it not working for the Average Joe...well, no OS is ever going to work perfectly for every person and every setup, but that's why the various driver manufacturers and Microsoft provide support. Yes, I know you've been talking to a GM, but the GMs really don't have all the knowledge they need to make that kind of call...Windows 7 is not officially supported by the Dev team because it's not released yet, and even then it may be a while before the GMs are given the training they need about it. Vista wasn't supported for a very long time after release, but that doesn't mean it won't work.

Uhm if you payed attention I did say something about them Mentioning to me that they didn't support the OS yet because it keeps Changing. Which is also why Average Joe (Gamer W/e) should prolly stick with Vista cause it is easier until they Build the Support. WHICH will be soon. Sorry just had to add that.

And it's already available to various developers, partners and beta testers.