Does our actions matter at all?

When RV was released I was rather thrilled because my actions really mattered. Yeah, in the other pvp zones I can do missions to nerf "the other side", but in RV the actual game (well, gfx) changed when I commandeered a pillbox. We don't see much of that in the game, and it's imho one of the weaker points. Whatever we do, it doesn't really matter. You could go clean out the Hollows, nothing would change, those trolls would just pop back.

So what could the devs do to make us feel we really affect the world we play in?
- More RV-style in regular zones. More kills = cleaner zone?
- Choises. In missions, when talking to contacts etc.
- not bother with the pvp, it's a dead duck, leave it be!
- more zone events that actually matters. When a S.C. building explodes it somehow regenereates, so what's the point in saving it?
- GMs that does nasty things. Ghost of Scrappy almost got it, smack him and the workers stop protesting at least. Could Lusca actually take down boats? She doesn't seem to be that bad now, just a bit lonely and misunderstood.
- LGTF has a point, spawns and invasion (makes me feel we failed though) Could TFs and SFs trigger more stuff (without annoying the playerbase)? Could an aborted/failed TF trigger something?

Do you have any more suggestions? How can the devs allow players to actually affect the world and get a feeling their actions really matter?

rv?

Recluse's Victory.

And yes, I'd love to see more of our in-game actions having consequences. I think the main problem is that after a while, people get the badge and then it gets ignored. If there was more of an incentive to take part in these activities (and no, I have no idea what) then maybe we'd see more people participating.

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When RV was released I was rather thrilled because my actions really mattered. Yeah, in the other pvp zones I can do missions to nerf "the other side", but in RV the actual game (well, gfx) changed when I commandeered a pillbox. We don't see much of that in the game, and it's imho one of the weaker points. Whatever we do, it doesn't really matter. You could go clean out the Hollows, nothing would change, those trolls would just pop back.

So what could the devs do to make us feel we really affect the world we play in?
- More RV-style in regular zones. More kills = cleaner zone?
- Choises. In missions, when talking to contacts etc.
- not bother with the pvp, it's a dead duck, leave it be!
- more zone events that actually matters. When a S.C. building explodes it somehow regenereates, so what's the point in saving it?
- GMs that does nasty things. Ghost of Scrappy almost got it, smack him and the workers stop protesting at least. Could Lusca actually take down boats? She doesn't seem to be that bad now, just a bit lonely and misunderstood.
- LGTF has a point, spawns and invasion (makes me feel we failed though) Could TFs and SFs trigger more stuff (without annoying the playerbase)? Could an aborted/failed TF trigger something?

Do you have any more suggestions? How can the devs allow players to actually affect the world and get a feeling their actions really matter?

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^^^ Gets my /signed, all good ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Hmm to add to this idea. "That our actions give consequenses".
How about if we FAIL to do things or FAIL to appear when an event happens... the enemy gets abit stronger?
Take an example.
Paladin construction (Ofc we will need some moderation or we will be killed asap, but just an example).
The message pops up. Unusual clockwork activity in Kings Row. The heroes have to run off to Kings and stop this big hunk of junk being made... OR
The Clockwork gets buffed. or
The clockwork does something worse... like a stronger invasion (use the zombie invasion or similar)
The heroes gets less defense against the Clockwork.
Kings Row changes into a battle zone, where the PPD fights the Clockwork... until the heroes can actually fix this. (Not sure how yet)
Getting the image of the first battle we saw in the comics, where the heroes of Paragon fight the hordes of the Clockwork King... then disaster happens. (Read it and you see what I mean).

So yes.. Let our actions (or lack of them) give us concequences. /em signed.
It will give us incentive to fight out in the streets and fight the GM's... cause if we don't... we will reap for the lack of vigilance.

Perhaps defeating rikti boss in mothership raid could starts rikti invasion in RWZ?

If somebody gets all of SS badges then alien invasion starts somewhere in City etc.

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Perhaps defeating rikti boss in mothership raid could starts rikti invasion in RWZ?

If somebody gets all of SS badges then alien invasion starts somewhere in City etc.

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I thought U'Kon did start a Rikti attack anyway? Never paying too much attention when in the process of kicking his head in

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Only issue I see with aborted/failed T/SF triggering something would be that its exploitable if the thing triggered is any good.

And if you make the triggered something bad, eg a debuff for whole team if you fail. You'd end up with many complaints.

Never noticed that happens. Im played mothership raid so many times and never seen invasion after that.

Its Lady Grey task force... when you finish that one that a Rikti raid is spawned.

It would sure be a balance act. Failure to kick the paladin causing problems, forcing us to kick it's behind would quickly become somewhat boring. But LGTF is a good example, it makes a rikti raid spawn, but you don't have to care about it.

Villains doesn't have many "events" like heroes (fires, raves etc), but what does it matter when heroes doesn't respond anyway. Skyway is one of the emptiest zones in the game, and I've NEVER EVER seen anyone clean up Supa trolls (except me, I love tossing them 100 feet or more). ...simply because it doesn't matter. Very heroic of us to leave a zone overrun completely by big, strong, good looking lads!

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It would sure be a balance act. Failure to kick the paladin causing problems, forcing us to kick it's behind would quickly become somewhat boring. But LGTF is a good example, it makes a rikti raid spawn, but you don't have to care about it.

Villains doesn't have many "events" like heroes (fires, raves etc), but what does it matter when heroes doesn't respond anyway. Skyway is one of the emptiest zones in the game, and I've NEVER EVER seen anyone clean up Supa trolls (except me, I love tossing them 100 feet or more). ...simply because it doesn't matter. Very heroic of us to leave a zone overrun completely by big, strong, good looking lads!

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Well, that's because we are all standing under the Atlas Statue looking good for inf.

Anyway, I like the suggestion.

Heh, yes Singstar.
Specially before, in the time when the Supa trolls stayed in Skyway after a rave, when they really clogged up the zone.
I did alot of hunting then. (Thank you WarWitch for fixing it.) It always took some time.

But yes, we need an insentive I think to do the events, more then .. *gasp* Dare I say it.. Badge.
Did think of a kind of temp power, but that would be too "rewardish". How about...
Oh. Lusca is going rampant in IP.
If the heroes do not stop Lusca, some of the zone will be under water... AND sooner or later there will be another spawn of Lusca... In talos?

Perhaps some alternate graphic that we get in Recluses Victory, when either hero or villain side wins. And we as heroes must undo this.

Or, doing what I get the impression of in Aion.. and the late Tabula Rasa.
I'm talking about a npc race that spawn and is the enemies of both villains and heroes. That would be more Player vs Environment then before.

Or... tossing another idea out.
We can earn merits from various task. Anarchy Online with their Eden expansion thought of a global research option. Every player gave part of their money that would otherwisely have dropped to a progress bar of their choice (given choices ofc). Through this the players would gain various perks that affected their character or their faction.
Could this be done here? Its a completly different kind of action... but thought I'd mention it.

But back to events...
I still would think it nifty that if the players failed to stop a fire... it would spread or.. give a new look to the zone. Just as Recluses victory was shown after either heros or villains won.

For Skyway, perhaps the amount of trolls have gone out of control. The police are dersperatly trying to stop them, but the zone will need player intervention. Put fire's on buildings, huge amounts of trolls and supas on the street going rampant. Like I hear hollows was before the first changes?
But alternate zonegraphic... or just more spawns of said villaingroup would be fun, I think.

And or Making the villains lvl range become that of the player when the player fights them...
If it is made a challange, like a public quests...
Which brings me to one good thing about Warhammer Online. The public quests... they became a great way for making team and getting the feel of belonging to a war.
Could some of that feel be incorporated in the game?

Hmm.. *looks up* Lots of various ideas... Think I should stop before I ramble too much. :P

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Anarchy Online with their Eden expansion thought of a global research option. Every player gave part of their money that would otherwisely have dropped to a progress bar of their choice (given choices ofc). Through this the players would gain various perks that affected their character or their faction.

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Hellgate: London had a nifty, and quite simple, system, where players could donate gold to a central pot, and when a certain amount had accumulated it triggered one of a selection of buffs to all characters on the server for a short period of time (half an hour or an hour, I think). People who made especially large donations had their names announced, too. It was fun, and also a sink to remove gold from the game.

In CoX, it could be set up so that characters could make a donation in the name of their supergroup, too.

Yeah, I do agree. All mmorpgs has this same problem, they are too static. Meaning, what you do in game has very little meaning. Like OP sayed, if You clean streets, that would make the streed more safe.

Like having some strategy game behind the game. Like every zone should have they own stats about the enemy activity and npcs happiness situation. Like, if players doesn't clear streets, the enemy spawn size comes bigger, what increase amount of enemies in zone. Npcs would become unhappy about the situation, because streets aren't safe. Players could read the situation from the info points.

Now how to reward players cleaning the streets. Example, the npcs happiness could affect the rewards they give. Example, when the streets are more safe, the enemies are mostly bosses and LT's, with better rewards. When the streets aren't safe, the enemies are mostly large group of minions. Little conflict here, yes, but not for npcs eyes.

Of course there could be more spawn and less spawns too. Not sure if that's possible, because all spawn seem to ALLWAYS happen in same spots.

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But back to events...
I still would think it nifty that if the players failed to stop a fire... it would spread or.. give a new look to the zone. Just as Recluses victory was shown after either heros or villains won.

For Skyway, perhaps the amount of trolls have gone out of control. The police are dersperatly trying to stop them, but the zone will need player intervention. Put fire's on buildings, huge amounts of trolls and supas on the street going rampant. Like I hear hollows was before the first changes?
But alternate zonegraphic... or just more spawns of said villaingroup would be fun, I think.

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This looks like fun, but has same problem what every event, they are also STATICS. What player does has no meaning at all. So, if players action doesn't mean anything why to do it at all. Some player does it because it's fun, but it isn't fun in long run, if event keeps repeating it self.

Example this current event about Rikti war. I mean if players could avoid fighting, what would it do? Notthign at all, it doesn't matter does player fight or not, the result is the same. That's the problem with normal events. My point is that players actions or not doing actions should have consequences. Meaning that every event should have at least two different outcome depending how well players did do. More like permament changes or changes what couse different direction.

Example, the fire. Let say players did well and they got fires down fast. So after the event, the situation is back to normal. Let say that players where lazy and alot of places was burn down. Now this could lead new event, rebuilding the place. Again does players help enough or not?

Hhmmmmm, I'm liking all these ideas, so thought I'd throw in one or 2 of my own.

I like the idea of zone events not just disapearing wether the payers do anything or not. I also like the escualting events.

The way I see this could be impemented is say, take the arson event in steel, the hellions arent stopped? well the spawns get bigger and they attack more buildings, still not stopped, well things get worse, npc contacts start diassapearing from the streets, npc stores get attacked and close. If things progress to the whole zone being shut, well, they just move onto the next zone, atlas and indie port, and start torching the buildings in that zone.

The same sort of things could happen with different mobs in many zones. Croatoa, jack and echoli fight eachother, the winning GM then leads their faction to control the zone (unless the heros stop them) Then mover onto the next zone (ok, would have to be a random green line station stop, but you get the idea) Supa trolls let uncombatted in skyway take over the zone, then move to the next zone etc. Could make things interesting when 2 rampaging faction meet in a zone too!

I think an appropriate phrase to illustrate this idea is "Evil thrives when good men (and women) do nothing." and no need to add in extra rewards here either, because the reward for stopping thr rampage is the access you your contacts, stores, WW's, Icon etc.

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

Well, it also has to spill over to villains and they're not very inclined to sweep the streets. Also it's a risk, a sever may get toasted completely due to too many lvl 50s not bothering about lowbie zones, or a server being too busy with the MA. ...but it's sad that an empty zone is left alone by the rikti's. Some code of honour?

I do like the general idea of having more non-instanced action. The arcs where you spawn GMs are a good example. Back when I still played blueside, I frequently called for help to take down the bick clockie dude, not to mention the maltabot. More missions within the zone maps would be great fun.

Imagine sweeping down, healing a poor lvl 15 that's fighting outdoors to prevent a chemical terrorist attack. Other games have shown how they can spawn glowies etc for people that have a specific mission, while others can't even see it, making it possible to do outdoor missions whithin the world instead of in instanced maps. It's the one thing (except the gfx) I love about Lotro, running in solo into a cave, finding 4 other dudes fighting a big spider, smack it down with their help - and presto; you've made some new friends too.

...also, it's soo sad they've put all that tima and effort into making some really nice zones that we don't bother looking at, it's just a pain getting from one end to the other to get to an instanced....cave!

Give all the zones the destructable stuff like the Safeguards have for a start

I'd like to see player actions having impacts on the world as long as it doesn't interfere (too much) with other players.

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Its Lady Grey task force... when you finish that one that a Rikti raid is spawned.

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what is this, COX meats fable?

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Give all the zones the destructable stuff like the Safeguards have for a start

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Yeah, that wouldn't lag the servers out at all, would it?

Hmmm...

If the Heroes beat up on certain groups like the Trolls...
More of them (any, in fact for the Trolls ) turn up in the Isles? And Vice Versa.

For Heroes, it'd be keeping the streets clean. Villains; Excuse me? On MY turf? I dont THINK so! -swift painbringing-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

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Hmmm...

If the Heroes beat up on certain groups like the Trolls...
More of them (any, in fact for the Trolls ) turn up in the Isles? And Vice Versa.

For Heroes, it'd be keeping the streets clean. Villains; Excuse me? On MY turf? I dont THINK so! -swift painbringing-

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Somehow that reminds me of multiplayer tetris.

But I love that idea!

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Give all the zones the destructable stuff like the Safeguards have for a start

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Yeah, that wouldn't lag the servers out at all, would it?

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Kings Row already has some objects like that (and has had it for a long time now). Just an hour or so ago, I saw some skulls shooting at a car then getting themselves killed when it blew up.

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Give all the zones the destructable stuff like the Safeguards have for a start

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Yeah, that wouldn't lag the servers out at all, would it?

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Nope.

Well not if they use the same system that they use for Propel and the various signs. Which as far as I can see are largely left up to the client to sort out.