There will be more power set proliferation eventually - the devs mentioned it recently as something that wasn't a top priority right now, but could be squeezed in if they got some time, I think.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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1. make powersets available to more character architypes. Assault rifle defender anyone? , ok, within reason.
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More Proliferation you mean? Absolutely signed. Especially if it means Traps or Cold controllers.
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2. broaden the selection of powers selectable at the lower tiers and give them a bit of variety.
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This is basically what the Kheldians let you do, and it is pretty cool having extra or a choice of powers as you level. It's also sorta what they did with APPs and PPPs. However I doubt it'll ever be done to normal powersets. A new AT might use it though, if any new ATs ever come.
I'd also like to see it completed for the APPs and PPPs (as well as Scrappers and Tanks getting some more APPs) as well as being expanded into the Pool Powers (so each Pool Power gets another choice). For example a hyper-flight power for Fly which briefly lets you fly at Superspeed speeds.
Proliferation is great, but it adds new powersets. I think I'd prefer some more choice within teh powersets we already have.
new powerset means you ahve to make a new alt. expand a powerset and you can respec your current alt to experience the content.
but if the choice is proliferation or nothing, I'd happily settle for proliferation.
I do like the idea, but your example will conflict with the AT basics.
Blaster primairy only has ranged powers, with a bit of effect, nothing else. Adding powers such as defensive or 'controllish' doesnt suit, that would be part of secondairy.
But, your example would be perfect for a AR/AR blaster set. AR attackwise primairy, AR melee/defensive for secondairy, conceptwise sounds very very nice and creates more synergy (fire/fire, elec/elec, ice/ice, psi/psi etc).
Currently redraw (NO IT DOES AFFECT CASTING TIME! - screw that redname) and animation wise all weapon based sets have a slight dissadvantage.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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Currently redraw (NO IT DOES AFFECT CASTING TIME! - screw that redname) and animation wise all weapon based sets have a slight dissadvantage.
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After re-rechecking BaBs admitted that redraw does affect some sets after all (after saying it was a myth previously)
No idea which ones though.
Must admit there have been times that I have really wished for a mix mash toon that could have powers from here there and anywhere.. Emps with SB + ID too.. or Blasters who could pull out a Broadsword, Tanks with sonic dispersion etc...
What if there was a Jack of all trades toon, that started with a set amount of points.
Powers could be given point ratings and each level you spend the points to get the power, every set could be treated as a secondary as its not a true "blaster" or "fender" but you could then have hundreds of new toons and proliferation without any new sets.
Willpower Blaster anyone?
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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Must admit there have been times that I have really wished for a mix mash toon that could have powers from here there and anywhere.. Emps with SB + ID too.. or Blasters who could pull out a Broadsword, Tanks with sonic dispersion etc...
What if there was a Jack of all trades toon, that started with a set amount of points.
Powers could be given point ratings and each level you spend the points to get the power, every set could be treated as a secondary as its not a true "blaster" or "fender" but you could then have hundreds of new toons and proliferation without any new sets.
Willpower Blaster anyone?
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They tried that in alpha originally
People ended up with Tankmages or total gimps so they went with ATs and sets
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Must admit there have been times that I have really wished for a mix mash toon that could have powers from here there and anywhere.. Emps with SB + ID too.. or Blasters who could pull out a Broadsword, Tanks with sonic dispersion etc...
What if there was a Jack of all trades toon, that started with a set amount of points.
Powers could be given point ratings and each level you spend the points to get the power, every set could be treated as a secondary as its not a true "blaster" or "fender" but you could then have hundreds of new toons and proliferation without any new sets.
Willpower Blaster anyone?
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They tried that in alpha originally
People ended up with Tankmages or total gimps so they went with ATs and sets
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I think that'd happen in any MMO - people will pick for concepots, but most would pick for effectiveness.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
true. but, by having the artchetypes keep their current multipliers you suffer in effectiveness for moving away from the archetype's primary purpose.
take the AR idea I posted above:
A blaster with AR has great ranged damage. he takes some melee powers, they are a change and they suit his character but they are nowhere near as effective as a scrapper (no crit chance for one!)
Similarly, taking a controller/defender like power, the blaster gets an ability outside his normal scope but nowhere enar good enough to make the troller/fender redundant.
the secondaries still have their uses. they have the secondary effects and fill in the gaps in the primary powerset, offsetting any perceived weaknesses.
You can make a jack of all trades character but you will truly be master of none.
People are already picking for effectiveness (and who can blame them) but by 50th level, there's not many pwoers in the primary pool left unchosen so each lvl 50 AR blaster is , effectively, 80% the same as another. By adding diversity that number could drop to 40% but the price is effectiveness.
Thats why I would suggest keeping the powerset restrictions. If AR were open to a scrapper, i'd change the top tier powers too to give more melee options as well. Though a rambo style character with a heavy machine gun, machete in one hand and letting rip full auto with teh other does quite appeal to me 
I have to agree with the expansion of the power pools. more powers and ways of combining them can never be a bad thing as long as balance is maintained across ATs.
More choice = my /signed
Since MA allowed me to play with custom mobs, and see the results (and yes, sometimes slaughter them without mercy 
) I've really wished we could mix and match more.
I do think that each AT should be what it says on the packet...but more variety would be ace. And YES to more powers per set! Taking Assault Rifle since you mentioned it, I really, really hate beanbag and tend to avoid buckshot. Similarly, sometimes a concept is put off by the better attacks being unsuitable, like a flamer in a tommygun?
Such attacks as [Heavy Burst], [Bayonet], [Pummel] and suchnot would be fantastic to add into AR.
Still, I agree, I sadly doubt the Devs would even consider this idea =[ still, we can dream.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Would love this tbh, sounds a bit like a VEAT when you hit 25, gives you variety, which is never a bad thing.. Considering we are super heroes/villains 
/signed
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A blaster with AR has great ranged damage. he takes some melee powers, they are a change and they suit his character but they are nowhere near as effective as a scrapper (no crit chance for one!)
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Speaking as sombody who has tried a lowbie archer/energy blaster, I can say that blaster melee damage is freakin' insane! They just dont last more than a few seconds in a melee situation.
Its pretty clear from the veats and heats as well as the recent changes to the patron/epic pools that the power selection system has a fair bit of flexibility. and a expanding of the current nine powers per set with extra powers and alternate powers would bring some nice variety to the sets.
the biggest problem probably is the sheer amount of work/time required to implement it and it would at least as far as the AT power sets go have to be done in a oner to avoid calls of favoritism. tho I suppose what they could do is work on all the pool power sets first and do them and then do the AT power sets or vice versa but its still a massive chunk of work.
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A blaster with AR has great ranged damage. he takes some melee powers, they are a change and they suit his character but they are nowhere near as effective as a scrapper (no crit chance for one!)
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Speaking as sombody who has tried a lowbie archer/energy blaster, I can say that blaster melee damage is freakin' insane! They just dont last more than a few seconds in a melee situation.
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yea blasters have pretty high modifiers for both ranged and melee damage
Not that i think giving them the chance to pick up a few more melee powers would be entirely a bad thing after all there inherent squishiness would still set them at a disadvantage in comparison to a scrapper if anything they would be a very squishy stalker or maybe a dominator that had neglected its primary.
all in all it could lead to some intresting builds
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A blaster with AR has great ranged damage. he takes some melee powers, they are a change and they suit his character but they are nowhere near as effective as a scrapper (no crit chance for one!)
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Speaking as sombody who has tried a lowbie archer/energy blaster, I can say that blaster melee damage is freakin' insane! They just dont last more than a few seconds in a melee situation.
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Yeah, the energy secondary is pretty good for blasters, I have a mind/energy blaster and love playing him.
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all in all it could lead to some intresting builds
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Or, as seen in GW, only leads to most efficient builds and 99% of the time neglect alot of added powers, basicly being waste of time to add all the stuff. Not to mention the huge inbalance it will create..
Like what would you give troller primairy? Attack abilities? So basicly making fire/kin for example close to godlike. Tanker/scrapper with ranged? They are meant to be melee, just like a blaster is meant to be ranged (hench the primairy) and their secondairy is survival (be it dmg wise, control or mix of it).
Although i would like to see a melee defender 
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Blasters already have melee set secondaries. So all that adding other melee styles would be more choice. Though I disagree that having the melee choices in the primary would be good. At primaries/sencondary should focus on the correct role.
With GR coming out it seems possible that some of the existing 1st/2nd types will be changed, as it may well be that heroes will get access to Ranged Dmg/Buff-debuff or Control/Damage (Corruptor & Dominator etc). Which will improve things a little IMO.
The only true addition to what we have I'd like to see is some melee sets for defenders, and maybe even a change in role of defender to Buff (de-buff)/Damage especially as several of the defender primaries work better at melee range.
but a focus on the correct role could still be maintained while giving diversity to the powers. a blaster who's primary roll is damage will still be doing damage regardless of weather its from melee range or extream snipe range.
but the powers needn't even brake from the AT mould taking blasters again a more snipe attacks could be added to the set to allow the creation of a almost pure sniper style character (something i would love to do with my AR blaster) or more close ranged blast or AOE blasts could be added it would allow any blaster to specialise in a discipline (AOE,Snipe,mid range,short range) or to mix it up no longer would the fire blaster be the automatic king of AOE or the energy blaster be single target centric.
some one mentioned controllers fire/kins would become god like. why would you your assuming such a system would be implemented without any consideration for balance which seems a foolish thing to believe.
As to every one gravitating to wards specific builds with specific power pics yes that mite happen but again this is where balance comes in also the power selection tek from Veats could be used so if you take the power "snipe 2" you cant also pick up "melee ranged blast 2"
Also lets face it you don't need a mega uber build in coh to play the game and sub optimal builds can normally do well.
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but a focus on the correct role could still be maintained while giving diversity to the powers. a blaster who's primary roll is damage will still be doing damage regardless of weather its from melee range or extream snipe range.
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And we'd better give scrappers ranged attacks too? Because if you have a choice between a AT that has low survivability due to lack of mitigation and an AT that has plenty what will people choose?
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but the powers needn't even brake from the AT mould taking blasters again a more snipe attacks could be added to the set to allow the creation of a almost pure sniper style character (something i would love to do with my AR blaster) or more close ranged blast or AOE blasts could be added it would allow any blaster to specialise in a discipline (AOE,Snipe,mid range,short range) or to mix it up no longer would the fire blaster be the automatic king of AOE or the energy blaster be single target centric.
some one mentioned controllers fire/kins would become god like. why would you your assuming such a system would be implemented without any consideration for balance which seems a foolish thing to believe.
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Gotta point out that does seem to be what you're suggesting above. If you add a whole range of extra powers into any power pick, you will end up with balance issues. Okay so you pick 9 snipes, that'd be OP in some situations. Having the system as it is creates balance by giving you powers that you may not need/like. Adding powers into the mix to give you more overall choice with one power set would remove that balance.
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As to every one gravitating to wards specific builds with specific power pics yes that mite happen
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I don't think its a case of 'might' though. The original idea for powers in the game was that you would be able to pick any power you wanted. And all that caused was a lot of tanks with AoE and ranged attacks. So they implemented what they have now.
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Also lets face it you don't need a mega uber build in coh to play the game and sub optimal builds can normally do well.
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Which is why so few people bother with Fire/Kins?
Nothing forces people to create optimal builds, but if you make it easy to create super OP builds, you get to the point where you get teams that only take people who have specific power sets or picks. There was a time when as a defender you would have problems getting a team unless you were a 'healer'.
Adding more power choices as you suggest would only make the situation worse.
Adding more power sets that move away from the current traditional types would be good, adding more choice to the current sets wouldn't be IMO.
I would prefer to see them add more Power Pools.
Take Tough and Weave from Fighting and add two more melee attacks.
Make a new 'Defence' set, put Tough and Weave there add, add a little status resistance.
Make a ranged equivilant to Fighting.
I'm sure there are others people could think of.
That way, people could add a little variety to their characters before 41 if they wished, but at the expense of missing out 'better' powers and needing to slot heavily.
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
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but a focus on the correct role could still be maintained while giving diversity to the powers. a blaster who's primary roll is damage will still be doing damage regardless of weather its from melee range or extream snipe range.
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And we'd better give scrappers ranged attacks too? Because if you have a choice between a AT that has low survivability due to lack of mitigation and an AT that has plenty what will people choose?
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why would scrappers need to be given ranged attacks simple answer they wouldn't just because a blaster can operate at melee doesn't mean a scrapper needs to be able to operate at range. scrappers could simple be given a wider variety of melee based attacks attacks that do low mag holds attacks that do KB or KD
blasters getting more melee dose not = scrappers getting ranged
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but the powers needn't even brake from the AT mould taking blasters again a more snipe attacks could be added to the set to allow the creation of a almost pure sniper style character (something i would love to do with my AR blaster) or more close ranged blast or AOE blasts could be added it would allow any blaster to specialise in a discipline (AOE,Snipe,mid range,short range) or to mix it up no longer would the fire blaster be the automatic king of AOE or the energy blaster be single target centric.
some one mentioned controllers fire/kins would become god like. why would you your assuming such a system would be implemented without any consideration for balance which seems a foolish thing to believe.
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Gotta point out that does seem to be what you're suggesting above. If you add a whole range of extra powers into any power pick, you will end up with balance issues. Okay so you pick 9 snipes, that's be OP in some situations. Having the system as it is creates balance by giving you powers that you may not need/like. Adding powers into the mix to give you more overall choice with one power set would remove that balance.
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blasters are the damage AT giving them different options in how they deliver that damage is not breaking from the mold of the AT you assume 9 snipes based on the current model for snipe which need not be the case again this is where balancing the powers would come in.
even if the 9 snipe powers were all based of the current snipes yes it would be OP in some situations but then such things are the case now some combinations work better in some situations the 9 snipe blaster would be at a real disadvantage in a cave map for example while his mid range a short range brethren would have the advantage.
The balance you talk about could be maintained as i said already similar tek to whats used with veats could be implemented meaning you would still have to choose between powers also there's still only so many powers you can take.
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As to every one gravitating to wards specific builds with specific power pics yes that mite happen
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I don't think its a case of 'might' though. The original idea for powers in the game was that you would be able to pick any power you wanted. And all that caused was a lot of tanks with AoE and ranged attacks. So they implemented what they have now.
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Its definitely a case of mite as even with the current set up there is variation in builds. Not every one has build up, or the snipe, or the nova, or the tier 9 god mode armour.
I don't think this would change if there was a few more options in the sets.
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Also lets face it you don't need a mega uber build in coh to play the game and sub optimal builds can normally do well.
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Which is why so few people bother with Fire/Kins?
Nothing forces people to create optimal builds, but if you make it easy to create super OP builds, you get to the point where you get teams that only take people who have specific power sets or picks. There was a time when as a defender you would have problems getting a team unless you were a 'healer'.
Adding more power choices as you suggest would only make the situation worse.
Adding more power sets that move away from the current traditional types would be good, adding more choice to the current sets wouldn't be IMO.
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not every one has fire/kins and not every one who has a fire kin has them because there the uber build I've had a fire kin for years kin was picked because at the time it worked best thematically with fire and if it wasn't for the fact it had taken me years to get him up to 32 i would re-roll him as a fire/thermal in a second.
Also i was here during the "need healer" days and that was largely caused by players coming from other MMOs where the healer was king but people did learn that healing wasn't the only way to stay alive.
and once again there would only be a problem of optimal builds if balance wasn't considered as long as balance was considered there would be no problem in fact more choice within sets could even help as there could be more than one way to achieve a good alt.
finally yes CoH in the beginning had open power picks and it was abandoned for fear of tank mages.
But that system as far as I'm aware never made it past alpha stage so it was never really tested by the players (hell some of the current devs weren't even there in those days) also considering champions has returned to a open power pick system and by all accounts its going to launch with it so it would seem it is workable.
So i fail to see how a bit more choice within the power sets would be a bad thing.
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blasters getting more melee dose not = scrappers getting ranged
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Why not?
I mean I'm all for more power sets but why limit this suggestion to one AT? What is so bad about blasters that they need additional powers to pick from that none of the other ATs need?
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blasters are the damage AT giving them different options in how they deliver that damage is not breaking from the mold of the AT you assume 9 snipes based on the current model for snipe which need not be the case again this is where balancing the powers would come in.
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Blasters are one of the damage ATs. And giving them extra power picks that change the way that they do that damage would break the mould. A blaster's primary pick is about range (check out what it says when you make a blaster, it doesn't say that a blaster is a damage dealer it says that a blaster is ranged damage). If you add many more picks that allow the character to be a non-ranged character with the additional melee attacks in the secondary you are changing a fundamental aspect of the blaster.
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even if the 9 snipe powers were all based of the current snipes yes it would be OP in some situations but then such things are the case now some combinations work better in some situations the 9 snipe blaster would be at a real disadvantage in a cave map for example while his mid range a short range brethren would have the advantage.
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Snipe? What the hell else would it be? A long range attack. If you had nine of them it would change the way that blaster played at a fundamental level. Get nine snipes and hover. Never be in danger from non-flying enemies again.
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The balance you talk about could be maintained as i said already similar tek to whats used with veats could be implemented meaning you would still have to choose between powers also there's still only so many powers you can take.
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If they used that tech to limit the power picks what the hell are you suggesting? Lets add powers to sets so that we have more choice but then use tech to remove those choices to stop it being unbalanced? That makes almost good sense /signed.
As your original comment mentioned that it'd stop you picking a melee attack after you picked a different snipe. That isn't balance. Stopping you picking more than one snipe is balance.
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So i fail to see how a bit more choice within the power sets would be a bad thing.
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Because it would completely unbalance some ATs. This isn't some little change that would only effect one or two people. This would require every single Power Set in the game to be updated and the whole lot rebalanced. Look at how much fun they're having with PvP balance, you want them to add more powers, changing they way ATs play. That is a huge amount of change.
Change to evolve the game play is good. Change for the sake of change is never good.
As for CO using a different system. Tell me its good in five years time and I may well agree with you. To change CoH to that system is a rewrite and not a simple change.
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I would prefer to see them add more Power Pools.
Take Tough and Weave from Fighting and add two more melee attacks.
Make a new 'Defence' set, put Tough and Weave there add, add a little status resistance.
Make a ranged equivilant to Fighting.
I'm sure there are others people could think of.
That way, people could add a little variety to their characters before 41 if they wished, but at the expense of missing out 'better' powers and needing to slot heavily.
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Each pool currently is designed to make choices, you cant have all, be smart on choices.
yet, wich imho is a lame thing, the 'forced powerpicks' among each set is very off-balanced. Where some builds only need 5-7 out of 9 powers, other builds are forced to take at least 7 and additional powers to compensate.
Shields can skip the 2 aoe def buffs and even shield charge, while willpower can basicly only skip rez-self. Dark and fire need to get -kb stuff (IO or leappool), while stone is always forced to have -slow in order to have protection at all.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
I never said don't give scrappers more power picks i said
"blasters getting more melee dose not = scrappers getting ranged"
what bit of that sentence suggests that scrappers wouldn't gain new powers?
Ok so you change a fundamental aspect of the blaster by giving it access to more melee attacks is this a bad thing? I mean really dose it matter where the blaster deals its damage from and if the player of the blaster wants to risk his neck to get into melee let him.
Also i think the presence of the blapper suggests that there are players out there that would enjoy more melee attacks in there blaster.
yea never be in danger provided your out doors also again balancing the powers just because you can fire all your powers from snipe range it hardly makes you undefeatable many groups have extremely long range attacks take the likes of malt there titans can launch a barrage of missiles from across a map at you, gunslingers can TP to your location, sappers can fly.
Also you can hover and repeatedly snipe with current powers so having 9 snipe powers would just be giving the player variety.
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f they used that tech to limit the power picks what the hell are you suggesting? Lets add powers to sets so that we have more choice but then use tech to remove those choices to stop it being unbalanced? That makes almost good sense /signed.
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almost I'm suggesting that they use the tech to limit the choice end result being more choice NOT remove it.
Did i suggest it would be a small amount of work? i don't think i did if i did i retract that suggestion there's no doubt in my mind it would be a huge undertaking and take many many hours of development time but just because its time consuming dose not mean it should be done.
your trying to tell me that changing the variety of powers you can pick from wouldn't change game play after saying earlier that they would be fundamental changes?
going by the logic of waiting 5 years maybe the Devs should wait 5 years and see if power customisation is any good before implementing it?
yes, terrible thread title but I'm bored.
anyway, this is probably a non-starter as it would require dev work but for the amount of work required it would make a huge impact on the game....
the idea in a nutshell: more powers.
not more power sets but more powers available within the power sets.
"what?" I hear you say, " are you insane or just a stoopid n00b" ?
to which I would reply, a little from column A and a little from column B..
but bear with me. what is one of the things that hits us first about the City of games?
the diversity and the freedom of choice. the costume creator gives us tons of costumes to choose from and then you choose the basic style you want to play (ranged, defensive, damage dealing etc) and then you choose the origin (ok, not much difference there granted but there could be - how's that for foreshadowing a future suggestion thread?) and then you choose the powerset. and then you find out that while you look different and play differetn your powers are identical to almost every other Assault Rifle blaster or broadsword scrapper out there.
IOs and slotting can make powers behave differently but they are still the same powers.
so, what is my suggestion ?
1. make powersets available to more character architypes. Assault rifle defender anyone? , ok, within reason.
2. broaden the selection of powers selectable at the lower tiers and give them a bit of variety.
taking Assault Rifle as an example for a blaster: Change this power name to something more generic like "Military Training"
tier 1:
Burst (as is)
tier 1:
Gun club: melee attack , you hit your opponent with the butt of your rifle
tier 1:
Kevlar : gives a small amount of resistance vs smashing and lethal (self only)
tier 2:
Slug (as is)
tier 2:
Bayonet attachment: melee attack, stabby goodness for your foe
tier 2:
First aid kit: a low powered ally heal single target only
tier 3:
buckshot: as is
tier 3:
choke hold: using your rifle you choke your opponent causing damage over time and a chance to disorient on release. while the hold is in place, you cannot move or activate any powers that affect anyone other than yourself. if you take damage or activate another power the hold is released.
tier 3:
War veteran: your skill with the rifle increases making you more accurate in your attacks and more aware of your surroundings. Toggle: self +per , self + to hit, long recharge.
tier 4:
M30 grenade: same as is
tier 4:
Gun Fu : melee + short range gun shot: while in melee you maneauver your rifle to hit your opponent and while they recover get off a highly inaccurate snap shot. moderate melee damage, the snap shot is -acc but causes high damage for the close range.
tier 4:
Block: you have learned to use your rifle as a shield against melee attacks. toggle: self + def(minor) melee
Tier 5:
beanbag: as is
Tier 5:
Stop block: you use your rifle to knock the wind out of your opponent. melee smashing damage, chance to disorient
Tier 5:
Camoflauge: you apply camoflauge and use your surroundings causing opponents to have a harder time spotting you. Toggle: like stealth but less effective.
Tier 6:
sniper Rifle: as is
tier 6:
any power you have not chosen from tier 1, 2 or 3
tier 7:
Flamethrower: as is
tier 7:
any power not selected from tier 1,2,3,4
tier 8:
Ignite: as is
tier 8:
any power not selected from tier 1,2,3,4,5
tier 9:
Full auto : as is
Tier 9:
any power not selected from tier 1,2,3,4,5
now. the Archetype's base multipliers still caount so a scrapper taking ranged powers wont be as good as a blaster and a blaster taking melee wont be as useful as a scrapper (and still squishy). But, it will allow for more variety. in addition, the animations are either already there or are almost insignificant (with the exception of gun fu).
Similar expansions could be made for other power sets giving the option of range/melee and misc (or offense/defense/self), off hand I can think of expansions for energy, elec, fire, storm and empathy and Psi.
anyway. just an idea.