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...I will of course love my 60 month veteran reward, and if I had a choise - completely free - I'd make 2 toons:
First toon: Total buffer - only buff/debuff/heal powers
Second toon: AoE nutcase. Only AoE powers + end drainers to keep going.
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I would only make 1 character, MM with costumizable pets.
We have MA, we can make our own mobs, we can 'force' AI to attack, to stay, to walk and to move. Combine... combine!
Overpowered? Perhaps, but they can always tune em down.
(in terms of mobs, how hard isit to fight a -2 boss/2lts and 3 minions?)
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Well the idea is great and the variety would be nice, but will it
work or not? sure it makes things easier for character development and mixing up the powers would be fun make it be more human not everyone can type well, play, draw so having this kind of variety in coh/v would be kind of nice.
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I never said don't give scrappers more power picks i said
"blasters getting more melee dose not = scrappers getting ranged"
what bit of that sentence suggests that scrappers wouldn't gain new powers?
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None of it suggested it. I'm simply puzzled that you think that scrappers shouldn't be able to change their playstyle while other ATs should. If as you seem to think scrappers shouldn't get ranged attacks and should merely get lots of melee attacks (they have controllerish ones already) why is a blaster any different? Why should Blasters not just get lots more ranged attacks?
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Ok so you change a fundamental aspect of the blaster by giving it access to more melee attacks is this a bad thing? I mean really dose it matter where the blaster deals its damage from
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Yet it seems to matter where a scrapper does its damage from.
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your trying to tell me that changing the variety of powers you can pick from wouldn't change game play after saying earlier that they would be fundamental changes?
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Not at all, I think that such a fundamental change to the game is far too much. I'm all for increased choice but effectively removing class distinctions isn't IMO a good step. If we were discussing a new MMO, or CoH2 then changing the way you pick powers is something that bares examining, rebuilding the whole system from scratch now would be exceedingly daft and rather than more choice would in all likelihood lead to a fundamentally different game to the one we have now.
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going by the logic of waiting 5 years maybe the Devs should wait 5 years and see if power customisation is any good before implementing it?
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How would they see if it works if they don't implement it?
CO hasn't been released yet, saying a feature you want in this game will work based on a game that could well bomb after six months isn't really a good idea. It maybe that Cryptic have got it right this time, or maybe not. Until we can see one way or another sticking with a system that works is almost certainly a better idea.
ok now i know your just being argumentative for the sake of it
you said
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As for CO using a different system. Tell me its good in five years time and I may well agree with you.
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you then say
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How would they see if it works if they don't implement it?
CO hasn't been released yet, saying a feature you want in this game will work based on a game that could well bomb after six months isn't really a good idea. It maybe that Cryptic have got it right this time, or maybe not. Until we can see one way or another sticking with a system that works is almost certainly a better idea.
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Also giving blasters melee attacks would be less of i divergence from there play stile than giving scrappers ranged would be
but if you so wish i imagine scrappers could be given the odd short range blast ability as claws and spines both already have such powers.
I fail to see the issue there. You are saying that an as yet unreleased system should be used as a model to add a new system to this game. I'm saying we should wait until said system in the other game is proven as a similar system in this game didn't work.
As for the whole blaster melee stuff. If you were to add additional melee attacks to their secondary I don't see an issue. Adding them to their primary will cause major imbalance. For the rest if you say that adding melee to blasters is okay then all the other ATs should get game breaking powers to pick from. After all its only fair.
then let me explain
bye what you posted a unreleased system should not be used as a bases for adding a new system to CoH correct?
that being the case why should power customisation be added as by your argument its untested so should not be added?
back the blasters and melee fine add the melee powers to the secondary but i fail to see what difference that would make from adding melee powers to the primary. end result blasters have more melee.
but you've side tracked the entire point of the suggestion more powers could be added to the primaries and secondarys of ALL the ATs giving more choice in builds.
Now yes doing this would take a lot of time but its not impossible and some of the ATs / Powersets could see some real benefit from it.
AR could see a build up style ability added but maybe it could only be taken at the cost of loosing the snipe.
stone armour could see a alternate form of mez protection available but again you would be forced to choose between it and rooted.
the elemental melee sets could game alternate versions of the weapon powers and vice versa no longer would you be forced to take the fire sword powers or loose good attacks in the same vain you would be able to create a all fire sword wielding character no punch attacks.
If unrestricted access to all powers (or a system like COs) was added you would pretty much have to start the game play aspects of this game from scratch, something that is orders of magnitude more complex than something that lets you change the colours of your powers. Adding something like that can be added simply (from our point of view) because it doesn't actually change anything other than the graphics/animations.
And no I don't think I have sidetracked the thread. I don't think that making the changes that you seem to want is either a good thing or a needed thing. It would be a huge change that would most likely lead to even more balance issues. And if everyone could make uber builds due to more choice of power picks then some would.
I for one have three or four power picks on my already stupidly easy to play fire/kin that I'd happily swap to something even more damaging or powerful. But that is the nature of balance by not wanting to have those picks I have to pick something else, something that in the end makes me more balanced and less OP.
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the elemental melee sets could game alternate versions of the weapon powers and vice versa no longer would you be forced to take the fire sword powers or loose good attacks in the same vain you would be able to create a all fire sword wielding character no punch attacks.
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Unless they do the same damage as the punches, you end up with issues of balance. And if they do do the same damage it is merely Power Customisation which is going in anyway.
Just wait for GR and either make a villainous hero AT or a heroic villain AT!
Nuff Said...
Coolio Wolfus leader of Coolio�s Crusaders on Union.
Tekna Logik leader of Tekna�s Tormentors on Defiant.
Creator of: Coolio's Tech Beacon Replacements
AE arc 402506, 'The Rise and Demise or Otherwise of Tekna Logik...'.
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If unrestricted access to all powers (or a system like COs) was added you would pretty much have to start the game play aspects of this game from scratch, something that is orders of magnitude more complex than something that lets you change the colours of your powers. Adding something like that can be added simply (from our point of view) because it doesn't actually change anything other than the graphics/animations.
And no I don't think I have sidetracked the thread. I don't think that making the changes that you seem to want is either a good thing or a needed thing. It would be a huge change that would most likely lead to even more balance issues. And if everyone could make uber builds due to more choice of power picks then some would.
I for one have three or four power picks on my already stupidly easy to play fire/kin that I'd happily swap to something even more damaging or powerful. But that is the nature of balance by not wanting to have those picks I have to pick something else, something that in the end makes me more balanced and less OP.
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the elemental melee sets could game alternate versions of the weapon powers and vice versa no longer would you be forced to take the fire sword powers or loose good attacks in the same vain you would be able to create a all fire sword wielding character no punch attacks.
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Unless they do the same damage as the punches, you end up with issues of balance. And if they do do the same damage it is merely Power Customisation which is going in anyway.
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the only time I've talked about full on free power selection is in response I have never suggested that free form power selection should be implemented in this thread my only suggestion was that they could increase the number of powers available within a power set what those powers were would have to be decided by the Devs based on the balance the sets. I also suggested that it could be a means for the pigeon holing of some sets to be broken eg Fire need not be the only AoE king.
The changes i have suggested have already been partially implemented with the increasing of the number of powers in the villain Epics so clearly in cases the Devs feel it necessary all I'm suggesting is that it could be expanded it could be as little as a extra power in each set but again balance would need to be considered when adding them.
yes of course there would be issues of balance there's always issues of balance i never suggested there wouldn't be but just because there's a balance issue dose not mean that a idea is immediately pointless if that was the case we would get no new power sets at all. plus the Dev's have formulas for working out things such as balance they could take fire sword and remove some of its damage and there formula would indicate what stats would need increasing to balance the new power
Finally just to be clear
I AM NOT SUGGESTING OPEN POWER SELECTION
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the only time I've talked about full on free power selection is in response I have never suggested that free form power selection should be implemented in this thread my only suggestion was that they could increase the number of powers available within a power set what those powers were would have to be decided by the Devs based on the balance the sets. I also suggested that it could be a means for the pigeon holing of some sets to be broken eg Fire need not be the only AoE king.
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So why hold up Champions as an example of such a system? Isn't that a free form power pick system?
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But that system as far as I'm aware never made it past alpha stage so it was never really tested by the players (hell some of the current devs weren't even there in those days) also considering champions has returned to a open power pick system and by all accounts its going to launch with it so it would seem it is workable.
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Villain epics are an entirely different matter they grant utility and parity with hero epics. (And that goes for both EATs and Epic pools.) Either way the balance is already in there, it wasn't for the most part retrofitted into an existing system.
As for the balance balancing an entirely new set (or rebalancing a proliferated set) is one thing, adding a load of new powers to existing sets is different. Looking at the changes that most sets have had since launch you can see the amount of work that just getting nine powers right is.
Instead of actually adding new power sets and proliferating others you'd rather they just spend time rebalancing extra powers?
I mentioned chamoions because you talked about a free power pick system being originaly intended for CoH but it was abandoned due to balance issues i used champions to show that even tho in the past that system was abandoned developers had found a way to impliment it in a upcoming game that was the only reason i raised champions and its freeform power selection. which if you read the bit of text that you quote should seem clear. I dont in anywhere in that text suggest implimentation of open power picking in CoH.
No it was retrofited into a existing system look at how villian patron/epic pools originaly worked they were effectivly the same 4 powers in 4 difrent flavours with little to no variation and they worked just fine within CoV however problems arose when you flung PvP to the mix heroes had the advantage with there superior epic pools so teh Devs modified the sets.
thats all they would be doing by adding powers to the AT power sets it would be the same proces but on a much larger scale.
Of course if you took it the stage further like i have suggested and incorporated the same either or tek that's used in the villain Epic ATs you could create more varied power sets giving variations on power types.
going back to blasters you could offer either the PBAOE nuke power as a tier 9 or a ranged single target high damage attack similar to that used by electrical blast.
both have advantages and play stile would way heavily on which one a player picked up.
I do agree with the more powers within sets. Having to take that STUPID secondary power at level 1 (on many sets) is so annoying. It would also make for more interesting builds just like the much disliked ED did. Personally I kept doing "the wrong" builds on heroes that usually ended up being both rather unique and good. For most powers there's a use at least when combined with others.
The devs have said they'll keep monitoring what powers people take and which ones they don't take - and take appropriate actions, the expanded villain patron pools show they might be serious. I sure hope so.
As for choosing any power-combo, can't see that happening. Kin MM SBing the pets - no way. More likely they'd nerf the fire/kin trollers (sure hope not though).
...I will of course love my 60 month veteran reward, and if I had a choise - completely free - I'd make 2 toons:
First toon: Total buffer - only buff/debuff/heal powers
Second toon: AoE nutcase. Only AoE powers + end drainers to keep going.
Yes, they'd be (censored) in solo play, but if I wanna solo, I'd play some other game.