I believe that if you give a hint of positive feedback then they SHOULDNT really be offended. Saying you liked the arc but would only play it more if *** changed or **** was better is a good thing imo.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
The problem i find is the arcs (not many) that are executed / written very well, but Ijust find dull and unengaging - and no polish will improve. The story,or gameplay is just not there for me.
I cant give 4 or 5 stars to an arc I didnt enjoy. I cant give 1 or 2 stars to a well executed, well written arc.
So, I just give 3 stars. However, i dont like not giving feedback (just in the manner you describe) but what can I do in this case? "Hey you write really really well! So well that this dull story wont get any better! 3 Stars for you sir!". The thing is, even if I wrote that in the most diplomatic, positive, encouraging way (and by golly I would try), there is a risk of a retributive gank fest.
So im probably left just giving 3stars and thats it.
The problem with giving a rating is that you cannot change the rating. So if the person improved his arc it is still stuck at that low rating you give it. Even if it is no longer valid.
So if you see an arc that just need a bit of polish to get that extra star, perhaps it is better not to rate it but leave a comment so he can improve the arc.
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The problem with giving a rating is that you cannot change the rating. So if the person improved his arc it is still stuck at that low rating you give it. Even if it is no longer valid.
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I'm pretty sure that's not the case, I have had someone bump a previous rating of 4 to 5 and saw my star average increased in turn.
As for the rating gank thing, I never really thought about it, heck I even write down exactly what stars I gave them in my comments like 'all in all well made, but it doesn't go beyond anything I could get from a paper mission - 2/5'.
I may or may not have been victim to it for one of my arcs, but it's hard to tell when you're not even sure if the player had some genuine issues with the arc and the comments system doesn't work all the time.
A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread
You can change the rating, but you need to start playing the arc again to do so.
Personally, I'd say if you're not sure what you should rate an arc, you probably shouldn't rate. Overrating a bad arc or underrating a good arc does nobody any favours.
"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.
In terms of giving feedback there is a method that seems to be quite successful (apart from it's terrible name) called '2 Stars and a Wish' (bleh)
What you do is say 'I really liked/thought you did well in areas X and Y. However one area that I think could be improved/developed would be Z'
The word choice is up to you but basically it's: two positives followed by one constructive negative.
Now all you need to do is find two positives. Hope that helps.
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In terms of giving feedback there is a method that seems to be quite successful (apart from it's terrible name) called '2 Stars and a Wish' (bleh)
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Ah the joys of positive enforcement being forced onto teachers. My favourite example of this was in a primary one art class where one delighful child decided it would be more fun to paint his classmates. The teacher happily told him;
'That is a beautiful colour you have chosen and it goes very well with Isla-Flora's* dress but I do wish you would paint on the paper instead.'
*yes that is a child's name and she insists on you not ommitting the flora
I've had the same problem with a couple of arcs - I've told the authors that what they wrote was well done, but it just wasn't interesting for me personally (most magic stories, anything that says "Investigate Council base" etc.)
It's like picking up War and Peace - sure, it's technically an interesting book, with many juicy themes and many well deserved plaudits but it's actually a bit dull to be honest.
Personal taste has to be reflected in the score, even if something is technically proficient and well constructed.
And if it comes to being deliberately marked down because you were honest? Well, from what I've seen of the MA so far, I find it hard to believe that any arcs that are not part of a large group rating system will ever see a large amount of feedback, postive or otherwise.
The game's just too small for that. (I suspect that the number of ratings needed for each badge will come down in an Issue or 2).
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
There are some people who would consider awarding anything less than 5 stars ganking, either because they overrate thier own creative ablity, or because they don't consider creativity significant: for them the MA means badges, and not awarding a 5 is impeeding thier badge collecting.
I was given a 3 for one of my arcs, which I'm happy with, considering I don't think of myself as any kind of creative genius, and I have problems with literacy. What I did find annoying was that lack of feedback. How am I supposed to make stuff better without feedback?!
I really should do something about this signature.
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What I did find annoying was that lack of feedback. How am I supposed to make stuff better without feedback?!
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Though the feedback system may be buggy at this moment - which could explain a lack of feedback received.
Of course the annoying thing is if it is broken (even with sporadic or intermittant feedback) but people don't realise then many may just stop giving feedback as:
* feedback that they have given has never been acted upon (due to never being delivered, but they don't know that)
* they haven't received feedback in loads of ratings, and they've reached the point of 'if no-one else seems to be bothering then why the heck should I?'
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they overrate thier own creative ablity
...
I was given a 3 for one of my arcs, which I'm happy with, considering I don't think of myself as any kind of creative genius, and I have problems with literacy.
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I found a 3 rating after 100+ votes on Handyman slightly dismaying given that I know to achieve this it must have had several 1s or 2s. That's not so much what I found dismaying in itself, but to be getting that whilst seeing zero-effort, 20-glowies missions hitting 4 or 5 rating after 20 ratings...
I've never considered that my published efforts would be works of genius or universally acclaimed, but I only publish once I believe I should be hitting better than 1 or 2...
Admittedly Handyman was thrown together pretty quickly (c.2hrs iirc) due to it originally being a closed beta mission for testing petitioning and I used the opportunity to test some custom mob design issues. I only provided a bit of innuendo and poor humour to add a bit of 'colour' rather than just having a dry 'petition me' arc.
Having said that... I'm still fairly convinced that it ought to manage better than 2. Especially as 1 is the lowest possible rating and so is basically a vote for 'avoid this arc like the plague'.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
There is an incentive for unscrupulous players to rate low, simply to push thier own efforts higher up the list.
Rubbish arcs getting 5s is probably mostly due to friends/SG collusion.
It's not what you know, it's who you know...
I really should do something about this signature.
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There is an incentive for unscrupulous players to rate low, simply to push thier own efforts higher up the list.
Rubbish arcs getting 5s is probably mostly due to friends/SG collusion.
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Or even just mutual backslapping in teams... which makes more sense if a team get together to do each others arcs and you're low down the order... do you rate honestly and risk immediate retribution when your arc comes up?
I'd say 'yes' you rate honestly or not at all - but I've met 'people' and I don't usually think of 'integrity' and 'honesty' as two of their strongest points.
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It's not what you know, it's who you know...
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And as about the only people I know ingame these days (hey - all the oldies left it seems) all seem to frequent the forums as well that probably plays against me!
I guess the internal monologue goes a little like: arc by JD? The forum JD? Pillock. Where's that 1 rating... 
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
I don't think you are the one people think is a pillock JD....
I really should do something about this signature.
There's defiantly griefing going on; How do I know? I've just briefly logged in to collect tickets/put auctions up etc, and I checked on the most recent version of my arc, Apocalypse Cow to see how it was doing. I didn't have any tickets to collect, which means no on one has completed even 1 mission of it from 2am this morning (when I was shamefully last on) but there's a single 1 star rating for it now.
If there was feedback, as others have mentioned, it wouldn't really matter; something like "this isn't really my style of humour" can't be debated, but you'd at least know how popular in general your work was going to be. "Spelling mistakes aplenty" I could explain by pointing out the wiki on cow breeds; I don't believe there's anything but intentional puns, but I could be wrong, and could correct them if there were... but sad to see, it's probably just asshattery, or someone as also mentioned, removing competition for their own arcs 
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I've just briefly logged in to collect tickets/put auctions up etc, and I checked on the most recent version of my arc, Apocalypse Cow to see how it was doing. I didn't have any tickets to collect, which means no on one has completed even 1 mission of it from 2am this morning (when I was shamefully last on) but there's a single 1 star rating for it now.
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You only get tickets when people rate your arcs, not when they complete missions in your arc.
3 stars = 15 tickets
4 stars = 20 tickets
5 stars = 25 tickets
... and I'm pretty sure I rated Apocalypse Cow when I played it, and not a 1 star rating. Did you unpublish?
"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.
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... and I'm pretty sure I rated Apocalypse Cow when I played it, and not a 1 star rating. Did you unpublish?
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He must've done, I played it at about midnight last night and 5 star'd it. You know you can make changes w/o Unpublishing it B-A, right?
There is almost certainly ganking going on. Getting 6 votes that you have been verbally told were all 5 stars and then at 7 votes it drops to 4. Pardon my maths but there is only one way that can happen. I know my arc is a bit of a marmite one, but there is simply no way a 1 star vote is anything other than a gank (2 i would find suprising but could swallow, 3 is entirely reasonabe) given the dross out there.
As PRAF says, some players will see a good arc and gank it deliberately to try and sink it. Less competition.
IN addition, most low(ish) vote 5 star arcs are simply "all my freinds have voted for me". If you do a search for 5 star arcs with 25+ votes its actually a very slender volume.
This is why the 4/5 star divide is pretty arbitary for me. Even 3 stars I will happily try.
I do hope the dev's have some mechanism for spotting habitul gankers. If a character is repeatedly dishing out 1 star votes to arc's that otherwise get almost all 4/5 star votes, thats a pattern of behaviour that can only be ganking.
I sympathise Cow, but really, its best just to get people playing and voting even if it drops the score to 4 or even 3. I loook more at the number of votes than anything else at the moment.
PS: Rating 1 star a mission that you enter and quit is a definite gank. Even "Colect 50 glowies from a Orebanga map" would mmake me quit, but not rate.
Suggestion: Allow ratings only after 1 mission has been completed (this will stop casual ganking).
I dont know if two wrongs make a right, but I for one would be happy to respond to a definite (or highly likely) gank vote with a rapid response anti-gank vote of 5 stars
A 1-star vote could be a case of ragequit also - someone frustrated with a couple of too difficult arcs, enter the next one, dies and let all the frustration spill out on that one.
At least I would like to believe that rather than deliberate ganking.
[url="http://adingworld.wordpress.com/mission-architect-story-arcs/"][b]My Story arcs[/b][/url]: [i]The Siren Supremes[/i] ([b]1143[/b]), [i]The Missing Geneticist[/i] ([b]2542[/b]), [i]Elemental Jones[/i] ([b]263512[/b]), [i]The Soul Hunter[/i] ([b]294431[/b]), [i]Heart of Steel[/i] ([b]407104[/b]), [i]Project Serpens[/i] ([b]434082[/b])
Ive played some of the presumed ganking arcs. There is simply nothing in them that should inspire a ragequit (not orebanga maps, not hard mobs, not collect x glowies).
Im afraid its almost certainly gank votes.
I really thinknk PRAF made a good point. Some people will just want to sink a good arc. (Although personal vendettas come into play. You should be able to publish anonymously IMO)
To be honest i think there is just too much stuff being published unfinished at the moment for ganking to be in effect.
At the moment my ranking system is for an average arc that is comparable to a devs is 3 stars. If there is something new and interesting say groups with decent power matches and an engaging story it goes up. If you create a custom group but dont provide any info on them an instant - 1 star.
If you create a badge mission which does exactly what it says on the tin then its 3 stars.
If your arc contains one mission could even be the best mission inthe world but it still gets no more than 4 stars.
So a badge mission put together by somebody is no better than an arc which somebody slaved over for days/weeks to get the way they wanted you might say.
Simply yes, a badge mission does not claim to be anything than what it is. If some body creates an arc i would expect them to have tested it to make it engaging and fun. might not seam fair but you are basicaly trying to do seperate things.
But a badge mission will rarely get a 4 rating would need to have a backroung to groups and a decent reason why there was so many clickies hostages etc. There is a fun pirate themed mission where rival pirates have stolen casks of ale with 2 differing priate factions all with information and motivation and some witty dialog. but most will not have any information or reason just lots of thing to click.
For a creative story arc i would expect the author to have wanted to have all of this preapared. So a non badgehunting mission which has no information on mobs or motivation is actually worse in my oppinion.
Just a quick point, but yes you can edit a published arc... however you can also upload an arc with over 100% of content (Apocalypse Cow is 101.5% in size) if you save it and exit, and the Publish icon is still available. But once such an arc is up, the changes won't stick to the published file unless you edit it back down below 100% again... so rather than miss out a little content, I dropped a few ratings instead and did a clean publish overnight. I don't know where the upload cut off point is, but it's under 105% somewhere...
You are not the only one getting gank starred Bovine. Seems it happens quite often if I may believe our oversees friends. Happened to me as well. That arc has recovered and ratings have gone up. I was rather distraught by it. It hurts when your arc where you put so much time in gets rated lower then some trash arcs with undeserved high rates. But then you get someone saying that they loved your arc and things are right again 
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You are not the only one getting gank starred Bovine. Seems it happens quite often if I may believe our oversees friends.
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Ok... I very quickly stopped reading the US I've been 'gank-rated' threads as most may be without substance.
Yes there will undoubtedly be some people who rate to grief, but is it commonplace?
Given that people are 'sort-of' encouraged to give a rating, and that they should be rating honestly it could easily just be people with different expectations/standards who truly didn't like your arc...
What you may see as clever misison intros and dialogue, others may see as overlong, self-indulgent waffle.
What you see on your scrapper as a challenging arc with interesting mobs the poor defender found to be an impossible arc with hideously overpowered custom gankmobs.
What you may see as an interesting series of notes hinting at the explanation for the mystery and far better than an obvious in-your-face hollywoord-style-made-for-sub-50-IQs explanation, the player read and just went 'What? Don't get that...'
And don't get me started on the way that your mob dialog wittily parodied episode 6 of 'The Prisoner' and was a clever homage that any TV or SciFi buff would love... the poor player was only born in 1995 - they've never even heard of 'The Prisoner' - it added zip for them.
I think that many may well be rating things that I in all honesty couldn't rate as I wasn't anything like the target audience:
* In RL I hate pork pies - I'd never give a rating or critique of one as I know I hate them and the best pork pie in the world would be unfairly judged by my tastes. But I'm not the target audience - pie makers make pies for people who like/want pies.
* Ingame I probably wouldn't rate farms or uberleet-skilltests because I don't think that I'm the target audience. I would comment and possibly rate them (and rate them low) if there was no indication that these were farms/skilltests and I entered them expecting a 'normal' mission...
As I said: people are being sort-of encouraged to rate arcs... so many will rate an arc whether it was designed for them or not. The old horses for courses thing.
A low rating may not be a gank-vote.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
I was just having an idle chap with somebody, and the point arouse that there was some anxiety about giving negative feedback, as it coud lead to retributive ganking.
Now, with total crud I would just leave a 1 or 2 (at most) star rating and leave it that. I kind of feel its pointess trying to say anything..
But there have been a few arcs aroundthe 2-3 range where I fely like saying "Fairly well written, but im afraid your story didnt grab me and it just felt dull". The kind of arc thhats technically ok but you know even if polished up, you would neveer really enjoy.
But its hard to give this kind of (honest feedback), even if its polite, as the receiver might say "well stuff you mate, im searching out all your arcs and giving them a 1 star gank".
I should emphasise that If i do *ever* give feedback I try to be as polite and helpful as possible about it. But thats easier with a 4 star arc than a 2 star one.
What do people think? Anonymous feedback has problems too - abuse etc (although I guess devs could track down abusive persons even if thhe receiver could not). I dont know the answer, im jusst concerned that 2 star arcs might be deprived of feedback (even if its "you can write well, but this arc aint gonna work for me, perhaps try from scratch?" which would actually be realy helpful) due to fear of the gank vote reprisal.