except there really 2 separate issues as i understand it a freespec is issued when powers are changed so that if you no longer like how that power works you can remove it from your build without needing to use a proper respec.
so in the instance of i13 changing powers a freespec is rewarded how you then use it is up to you but its really just there so that you can switch out powers
and in this case as most powers within a AT have the same enhancement requirements its not all that likely your gonna have a full 10 enhancements left over even when you consider sets a melee damage set will slot in any melee attack a ranged in any ranged a resistance in any resistance set so you should still be able to slot your enhancements regardless of what you've changed a power 2.
the only problem i see sets bringing is that its more likely that you mite have 6 slotted a power and if it was one of the more unusual powers in a set you may then need to have room for 6 enhancements in your tray so maybe upping the number of enhancements you can carry to 12 would be better that way you could hold 2 full sets.
also for the swapping out of IOs (or even plain enhancements) maybe there could be a new "null" IO purchasable from the inventions console placing it in a occupied slot would force whatever was in the slot out and into you enhancements tray.
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I find this odd. I'm a 33 month veteran. I'm not sure how many respecs off the bat that entitles me to (at least, without looking it up) but since the vet rewards were introduced, I've never done a respec trial, nor have I ever bought a respec recipe. Why? 'Cos I've never needed ones that weren't supplied for nowt.
I'll say again, if you're burning that many respecs between vet rewards and freespecs, you really need to look at the way you're doing things rather than ask for the game to be changed.
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48 months here and on my main PvP toons i haven't got a single respec. While i do use mids it can't help me to foresee huge changes like the ones seen in i13.
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but i13 came with a a free speck so that shouldnt have cost you a actual respec
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While I don't agree with the "as many full respecs as you want" idea, Rent did go on to say:
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Yes we get a free respec with every new issue but it doesn't solve the problem of swapping more than 10 enhancements. I've used up to 7 respec's to totally clear out a toon of enhancements before deletion.
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...so in that light the I13 freespec wouldn't do the job on its own.
With Set IOs in I can see the need for some way to transferring more than 10 enhs off a toon; ideally with some sort of relatively accessible cut down respec, that would let you (say) move as many enhs as you had AH slots for into there to deal with later.
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Except that using a respec to free up enhancements is not what they were designed for. If anything, this could be seen as an exploit, and rather than facilitating that process, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a hole that was plugged by one means or another. Rightly so in my opinion.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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I find this odd. I'm a 33 month veteran. I'm not sure how many respecs off the bat that entitles me to (at least, without looking it up) but since the vet rewards were introduced, I've never done a respec trial, nor have I ever bought a respec recipe. Why? 'Cos I've never needed ones that weren't supplied for nowt.
I'll say again, if you're burning that many respecs between vet rewards and freespecs, you really need to look at the way you're doing things rather than ask for the game to be changed.
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48 months here and on my main PvP toons i haven't got a single respec. While i do use mids it can't help me to foresee huge changes like the ones seen in i13.
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but i13 came with a a free speck so that shouldnt have cost you a actual respec
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While I don't agree with the "as many full respecs as you want" idea, Rent did go on to say:
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Yes we get a free respec with every new issue but it doesn't solve the problem of swapping more than 10 enhancements. I've used up to 7 respec's to totally clear out a toon of enhancements before deletion.
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...so in that light the I13 freespec wouldn't do the job on its own.
With Set IOs in I can see the need for some way to transferring more than 10 enhs off a toon; ideally with some sort of relatively accessible cut down respec, that would let you (say) move as many enhs as you had AH slots for into there to deal with later.
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Except that using a respec to free up enhancements is not what they were designed for. If anything, this could be seen as an exploit, and rather than facilitating that process, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a hole that was plugged by one means or another. Rightly so in my opinion.
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Honestly what makes you say that?
Is it the way that they've always allowed you to keep some of the enhancements?
Since respecs first entered the game?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Some yes. And given that you only have 10 slots in your tray, it allows for the fact that you may do a respec with a tray full of enhancements. Those are put in the pool as it were and you're given the option of selling them, using them or putting them back in the tray.
Working as intended.
If it's just a question of freeing up IOs, maybe they shouldn't be locked into the power once they're placed there, so that a player can move them about as and when they like. That's not something I would like to see, because I think it devalues the whole thing, but I think it'd be a preferable method of dealing with it than messing about with respecs.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
10 per respec, so that's 30 with just the in game earn able ones, 40 if it's a new issue, 50 if it's also been a year since you started playing.
Now why would they allow you to get enhancements back?
Simple you spec out a hold power and spec in a ranged damage power/taunt/melee what ever, something that doesn't use holds.
These hold enhancements can be reclaimed and thus sold and used to buy new ones you can actually use, whether IO/SO/HO.
Since that's the way it worked all along it can't be an exploit, after all they've only had since putting the terra volta trial in to correct it if they didn't like the way it worked.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Sorry, I don't understand the point you're making.
Why would you put an enhancement that you didn't want in a power?
And if it was a power you wanted to respec out of, why would you spend loads putting IOs into it?
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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Sorry, I don't understand the point you're making.
Why would you put an enhancement that you didn't want in a power?
And if it was a power you wanted to respec out of, why would you spend loads putting IOs into it?
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Because that's what a respec is for?
For example you have a choice between two powers A and B, A is blasty move and B is a hold.
At patch number 8 B is the better move
Patch number 9 comes along and B is worthless now so you'd like to take A instead, taking the SO's out of B you buy some for move A.
You also have situations where you might want to switch from a leveling up build to a PVP build or a super good at one certain task build.
Seriously do you honestly think it's an exploit that they haven't fixed in nearly five years?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Firstly, if the powers are affected that much between patches, then a freespec is usually offered anyway.
Secondly, dual builds have only been available since i13, so this point is moot.
Thirdly, I did say "could be seen" as an exploit. The fact that this exploit is limited de facto by the number of enhancement slots in the tray means that it has sufficient limitations in it as it is for it not to be "fixed".
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
Reading this has convinced me that altering the respec rules in anyway right now would be a bad idea,
Recycling of IO's should not be made easy.
/unsigned
Can I just ask why being able to recycle set IOs more cheaply/easily is a bad thing? I'm not understanding the reasoning.
I dont know why some people are against the idea of being able to re-earn respecs beyond the maximim of 3 overall you can earn in your toons lifetime.
Its not as if they are being handed out like free tasters at a supermarket, you still have to earn the respec by doing a 1 hour/1 1/2 hour taskforce
And of course, you cant repeatedly do the taskforce over and over till you have saved up 20 unclaimed earned respecs, you earn one, then to get another respec from the same contact, you need to do the taskforce AGAIN after you've used the respec you earned on the last completion...
Its such a simple idea & benifits those looking to try & find new ways to enjoy the end game by ever changing there build that have run out of respecs on a particular character.
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... Its such a simple idea ...
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*Sigh*
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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I dont know why some people are against the idea
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Then read the thread again. You have put your suggestion forward. Some have agreed, some have disagreed.
That's what happens in a Suggestions forum. Putting the same idea forward again but rewording it isn't going to change a thing.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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Can I just ask why being able to recycle set IOs more cheaply/easily is a bad thing? I'm not understanding the reasoning.
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Me neither.
I'd be all for a re-earnable "Slot respec". Hell it'd be less annoying for me than the current one which forces me to repick my powers when all I want to do is juggle some slots about and take out some older IOs (which could go back onto the market).
Ok some thoughts
1) the current system forces you to consider how your going to build your character unlimited respecs would remove this
2) the current system helps limit the number of IOs available buy limiting those you can keep a hold of and sell from a single respec
3) if the respec trials were repeatable for respecs there would be nothing stopping you amassing a unlimited number of respecs as standard respecs stack (only freespecs don't stack)
4) Perhaps the respec system should be reworked to take into account the duel build system but its probably a lot of work for a little gain.
5) there had been talk of making the last respec repeatable by lvl 50s before the invention recipe came along it was never implemented so perhaps there's some kind of technical problem involved
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5) there had been talk of making the last respec repeatable by lvl 50s before the invention recipe came along it was never implemented so perhaps there's some kind of technical problem involved
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More likely it made more sense (to NCSoft) to charge for them instead. But add a horribly rare Respec recipe in there too so they could say they had.
I think unlimited respecs or allowing more than 10 enhancements to be removed from alts would flood the market with enhancements. While I can see an advantage in this for my 50s as they'd be able to buy those enhancements my lowbies would suffer as anything good that they find that effectively sets them up for many levels would likely become very cheap and very useless.
/Unsigned
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I think unlimited respecs or allowing more than 10 enhancements to be removed from alts would flood the market with enhancements. While I can see an advantage in this for my 50s as they'd be able to buy those enhancements my lowbies would suffer as anything good that they find that effectively sets them up for many levels would likely become very cheap and very useless.
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Not sure that would happen; if uber-useful enhs (KB protection, +EndRec, etc...) are needed by a toon in the first place they're likely to be needed even after a major respec, so there wouldn't be a market flood there.
For everything else, if the market's flooded and prices go down across the board you won't need the one-off mega drop to be able to afford things in the first place. Everyone finds set IOs more affordable, win all round.
That said, I'm not convinced freeing up more IOs would have that drastic an effect on market prices...it's just that if they did, that effect wouldn't be a bad thing.
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1) the current system forces you to consider how your going to build your character unlimited respecs would remove this
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People would still look at it in the same way they do now, however like everything peoples opinions on what they think are best for their toon constantly change...in particular due to the amount of IO sets constantly availabe & the varied number of IO types that can go into certain powers
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2) the current system helps limit the number of IOs available buy limiting those you can keep a hold of and sell from a single respec
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Well thats another problem, however using a respec soly for taking IO's out of a build isnt what the idea of re-earning respecs is for, for myself. Its about being able to try & improve the build by swapping a few slots about, taking this power instead of that power etc etc
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3) if the respec trials were repeatable for respecs there would be nothing stopping you amassing a unlimited number of respecs as standard respecs stack (only freespecs don't stack)
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Yes but my idea to get round that was to only ever allow 1 respec from the same contact, however once that respec that was earned has been used up, then you'd have to repeat the taskforce to get another one. So in the same way, you'll never have anymore than 3 earned respecs at any one time available.
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5) there had been talk of making the last respec repeatable by lvl 50s before the invention recipe came along it was never implemented so perhaps there's some kind of technical problem involved
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I wasnt aware of that but really, adding something like what Ive suggested surely wouldnt be anymore difficult than things they've added in the past
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Then read the thread again. You have put your suggestion forward. Some have agreed, some have disagreed.
That's what happens in a Suggestions forum. Putting the same idea forward again but rewording it isn't going to change a thing.
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I have read the feedback it seems as tho there are people who have unlimited £6's to pay for a respec, or people who have enough time to constantly farm to enough influence to buy a respec recipe from what I can gather.
Theres nothing negitive that could come from allowing us to re-earn a respec once we've used the one(s) we currently have.
Your best excuse seems to be that people should use more careful planning, however like anything, you dont know what the build is like until you play it.(which you cannot do one the test server) For example, your endurance recovery could be ample to take your power usage chain, so then you can see you can sacrifice one IO & its 2.5% recovery bonus being granted from a certain power, however your melee defense can be improved by 3% if you where to shift 1 slot to another power to gain the bonus by adding the next IO in the set...
What I'm saying is, I plan my builds quite well & carefully, however like with everything...my views on what are best for the character evolve with every new issue & every new IO set etc, & most importantly...how it plays
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I think unlimited respecs or allowing more than 10 enhancements to be removed from alts would flood the market with enhancements. While I can see an advantage in this for my 50s as they'd be able to buy those enhancements my lowbies would suffer as anything good that they find that effectively sets them up for many levels would likely become very cheap and very useless.
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Not sure that would happen; if uber-useful enhs (KB protection, +EndRec, etc...) are needed by a toon in the first place they're likely to be needed even after a major respec, so there wouldn't be a market flood there.
For everything else, if the market's flooded and prices go down across the board you won't need the one-off mega drop to be able to afford things in the first place. Everyone finds set IOs more affordable, win all round.
That said, I'm not convinced freeing up more IOs would have that drastic an effect on market prices...it's just that if they did, that effect wouldn't be a bad thing.
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^ This.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You can actually predict very well how your toon is going to play in a live environment. Endurance usage can be calculated quite precisely using methods like Arcanatime. Same is for DPS etc.
Also, if you've played other toons then you ought to have an idea of how 20% resistance or 15% def will add to your survival.
I just dont see a good enough reason for the devs to spend extra time on this. Sure, if they have spare time I dont have anything against them doing this. I'm all for "slot respecs".
And just to note, I've never used a respec recipe or bought one for real cash.
My 2 cents.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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I have read the feedback it seems as tho there are people who have unlimited £6's to pay for a respec, or people who have enough time to constantly farm to enough influence to buy a respec recipe from what I can gather.
Theres nothing negitive that could come from allowing us to re-earn a respec once we've used the one(s) we currently have.
Your best excuse seems to be that people should use more careful planning, however like anything, you dont know what the build is like until you play it.(which you cannot do one the test server) For example, your endurance recovery could be ample to take your power usage chain, so then you can see you can sacrifice one IO & its 2.5% recovery bonus being granted from a certain power, however your melee defense can be improved by 3% if you where to shift 1 slot to another power to gain the bonus by adding the next IO in the set...
What I'm saying is, I plan my builds quite well & carefully, however like with everything...my views on what are best for the character evolve with every new issue & every new IO set etc, & most importantly...how it plays
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I don't fit into either of those categories you mention for the record.
A 2% change to recovery or a 3% change to defense is going to make diddly squat difference in PVE. Given that I don't farm, very few of my characters have very many orange recipes let alone purple ones, and personally I see the set bonuses they give as icing rather than cake. I can honestly say that IO sets give very little noticeable difference to the way a character perfoms, unless it's something really obvious like a KB prot IO, than they would if they were slotted with SOs.
I can imagine, however, if someone spends a lot of inf on high end orange recipes and purples that the bonuses add up and they DO notice a difference between that build and an ordinary SO'd one. The thing is tweaking that build to get an extra 3% def here or a bit more recov there isn't going to be noticeable either in the scheme of things.
If you think otherwise, you're deluded.
And once again, you mention "changes per issue". With every issue, each character gets a freespec. Problem solved.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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you dont know what the build is like until you play it.(which you cannot do one the test server)
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Uh....yes you can. You really haven't thought this through, have you?
I'm all for respec's being less hard to get, and definately for 'Slot-specs', as I don't want to think of how many times I had to respec my two mains, due to not finding Mids that early, and not knowing how to work it well.
Also, slot-specs so that you can re-fund all your outused DOs, SOs, etc, and not ALWAYS be too broke to fully re-slot with green number enhancements. Which unless you farm AVs, get ludicrous good luck with the drops or have a seriously rich lvl 50, you can't. Not realisitcally...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I think unlimited respecs or allowing more than 10 enhancements to be removed from alts would flood the market with enhancements. While I can see an advantage in this for my 50s as they'd be able to buy those enhancements my lowbies would suffer as anything good that they find that effectively sets them up for many levels would likely become very cheap and very useless.
/Unsigned
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I think Standoff's pretty well covered my thoughts on this. Right now, if anything, the market it suffering from a real lack of enhancements/recipes for sale. If allowing some way of removing more IOs had any effect, I think it would be a positive one. And as Standoff says, the low-level good IOs (like KB protection) are still going to be needed in a lot of builds, so probably won't go back on the market. And when respeccing, for every set someone takes out, they'll probably be buying a new one to put in, levelling things out.
The thing to keep in mind is that those people with tons of inf don't have a huge issue here. They can just rebuy IOs - taking more off the market for the rest of us - or buy respec recipes. Or if they just have real money to spare, they can buy more respecs, or even buy inf.
Meanwhile, those of us who play more casually, or more for fun than power-gaming, or don't have real-life money to spare, suffer. I don't have the inf or the money to buy 10 respec recipes so I can empty a toon's set IOs out. I also don't really have the time - I work full time, and repeat respeccing feels like more work, not fun.
The respec system was put in place long before IOs existed. It worked fine when all you needed to do with it was move powers and slots, and when enhancements were worth very little. Also, as new sets come out you can spend a lot of inf only to find something better comes out, requiring a respec and more inf spent to re-slot. The game design has changed very significantly, while this hasn't been looked at.
That said, I don't agree with the original idea that we need more respecs. I don't see massive harm in there being more available, but don't feel I really need more of the things - not if we can have a better method for just moving set IOs around, or some kind of slots & enhancements only respec as some have suggested.
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I find this odd. I'm a 33 month veteran. I'm not sure how many respecs off the bat that entitles me to (at least, without looking it up) but since the vet rewards were introduced, I've never done a respec trial, nor have I ever bought a respec recipe. Why? 'Cos I've never needed ones that weren't supplied for nowt.
I'll say again, if you're burning that many respecs between vet rewards and freespecs, you really need to look at the way you're doing things rather than ask for the game to be changed.
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48 months here and on my main PvP toons i haven't got a single respec. While i do use mids it can't help me to foresee huge changes like the ones seen in i13.
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but i13 came with a a free speck so that shouldnt have cost you a actual respec
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While I don't agree with the "as many full respecs as you want" idea, Rent did go on to say:
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Yes we get a free respec with every new issue but it doesn't solve the problem of swapping more than 10 enhancements. I've used up to 7 respec's to totally clear out a toon of enhancements before deletion.
[/ QUOTE ]
...so in that light the I13 freespec wouldn't do the job on its own.
With Set IOs in I can see the need for some way to transferring more than 10 enhs off a toon; ideally with some sort of relatively accessible cut down respec, that would let you (say) move as many enhs as you had AH slots for into there to deal with later.