If you actually read what I said, I didnt say make it the be all and end all of the game.
Also, how would having good PVP destroy the current player base? If you dont like PVP, you dont go into the zones, its kind of simple to understand.
And I disagree about bringing in new people as some games thrive with both good PVE and PVP.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
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The thing that could possibly bring people in would be if the PVP was worked on to the extent that it was renowned for being excellent, unlike now which is the opposite, sadly. Even then, PVP is not everybodys thing.
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This game started without any PvP. Making PvP the be-all and end-all of this game would destroy the playerbase it has and would be highly unlikely to attract anyone new.
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This is true for me at least; I have zero interest in PvP in CoH, it feels tacked on and has no real bearing on the game. I partly chose CoH originally over WoW because of the lack of PvP. When I played WoW, I didn't PvP.
I'm currently playing WAR, which has PvP integrated with the PVE at such fundemental levels you never really feel like you're making a choice - it all feels like one game. The character classes were created from the start with PvP balance in mind, there's no such thing as a class that can't solo in PvE or can't contribute to PvP, regardless of minor balance issues...it just works; I've gone from someone who wouldn't play PvP in CoH & WoW, to someone who will happily play it in WAR, in any class. I haven't changed, it's the game.
To get more/better PvP into CoH, they'd probably have to start again with a CoH2 so they can have it there from the start - rebalance everything with it in mind; when I do come back to CoH (which I'm sure I will) I still doubt I'll be playing PvP; I'm sure the multiple build thing will go a long way to helping, but I'd be more likely to use it for team-based/solo PvE builds.
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If you actually read what I said, I didnt say make it the be all and end all of the game.
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No, you said, and I'll quote it again:[ QUOTE ]
The thing that could possibly bring people in would be if the PVP was worked on to the extent that it was renowned for being excellent, unlike now which is the opposite, sadly.
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To create something in this game which would be "renowned for excellence" would require that the focus of the game shifted from gameplay content and PvE experience, to end-game content and PvP experience. Essentially, the whole game focus would need to shift toward PvP.
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Also, how would having good PVP destroy the current player base? If you dont like PVP, you dont go into the zones, its kind of simple to understand.
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But development would move off PvE and onto PvP. Balance issues would resolve in favour of PvP. More unnecessary nerfs. No new content, unless it's in PvP zones.
Result, the existing playerbase, which is largely PvE-oriented, and only here because of the constant content updates and community, slowly (or rapidly) leaves.
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And I disagree about bringing in new people as some games thrive with both good PVE and PVP.
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How many of those started out as pure PvE games?
And how many of them are WoW?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I think that what would give this game a massive upswing would be a new expansion with absolutely masses of new features, upgrades and content.
I would also kinda like it if the game felt a little looser. Currently whenever I go somewhere or do something I feel like I'm constantly repeating myself. When I fly I want to be able to fly however I want, wherever I want. I want to be able to fly upside down, do stunts, whatever.
Same for running, I want to be able to run up walls, or climb them like in Assassin's Creed.
I know this stuff is really unlikely to ever happen, so unlikely that I would put money on 'never', but it would make the game feel more fluid to me is all and I'd probably have more fun and feel more like a superhero.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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If you actually read what I said, I didnt say make it the be all and end all of the game.
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No, you said, and I'll quote it again:[ QUOTE ]
The thing that could possibly bring people in would be if the PVP was worked on to the extent that it was renowned for being excellent, unlike now which is the opposite, sadly.
[/ QUOTE ]
To create something in this game which would be "renowned for excellence" would require that the focus of the game shifted from gameplay content and PvE experience, to end-game content and PvP experience. Essentially, the whole game focus would need to shift toward PvP.
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Also, how would having good PVP destroy the current player base? If you dont like PVP, you dont go into the zones, its kind of simple to understand.
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But development would move off PvE and onto PvP. Balance issues would resolve in favour of PvP. More unnecessary nerfs. No new content, unless it's in PvP zones.
Result, the existing playerbase, which is largely PvE-oriented, and only here because of the constant content updates and community, slowly (or rapidly) leaves.
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Just throwing in my 2p worth, here, so to speak:
Essentially ... I think you've extrapolated too far here, Ravenswing. Updating the existing PvP game in City of heroes does not mean moving a full resource focus to PvP, nor would it mean turning PvP into 'end game' for the entire community. Putting some time into making CoH's PvP game more enjoyable can benefit the entire community - all it takes is a dev team sensitive to their community's needs and desires. I think that NCNC fits that bill nicely 
.
Further, any development primarily aimed at PvP can have beneficial effects for PvE as well. For example, while the Multi-builds feature is being discussed as a large boon to the PvP community (allowing them to have a full PvP build and a full PvE build on the same character), it will also be of use to pure PvE players (eg solo vs group builds; TF/SF builds vs regular builds etc).
Re: balance, I'd like to point at a semi-recent example of achieving balance separation to solve the "they nerfed skill X for PvP reasons and ruined my PvE fun!" issue. Simply take a look at what ArenaNet have done with Guild Wars in recent months: they have taken a range of skills in the game and separated them into PvP and PvE versions. Take the skill into a PvP zone and it uses one set of values, take it into a PvE zone and it uses the other. They did it precisely because by doing so they could balance skills appropriately for PvE enjoyment and balance those same skills differently for PvP, as needed. Any rebalancing for PvP does not necessarily require that the balance change has an impact on PvE (or as large an impact). In most cases the differences are subtle, however in others they can be quite drastic.
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a dev team sensitive to their community's needs and desires. I think that NCNC fits that bill nicely .
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Good - we need and desire a lot of things
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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a dev team sensitive to their community's needs and desires. I think that NCNC fits that bill nicely .
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Good - we need and desire a lot of things
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<Insert Obligatory Animated Hair Joke Here>
<Insert Obligatory Futile Request for Longer Hair Options for Male Toons Here>
We want a lot of things. Doesn't mean we'll get 'em.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Further, any development primarily aimed at PvP can have beneficial effects for PvE as well. For example, while the Multi-builds feature is being discussed as a large boon to the PvP community (allowing them to have a full PvP build and a full PvE build on the same character), it will also be of use to pure PvE players (eg solo vs group builds; TF/SF builds vs regular builds etc).
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As a non PvP'er myself that is exactly what I am planning to do with my multi builds. This also seems an interesting thing for Peacekeepers and Warshades. One build focussing on Dwarf form and another for the light form for example.
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Further, any development primarily aimed at PvP can have beneficial effects for PvE as well. For example, while the Multi-builds feature is being discussed as a large boon to the PvP community (allowing them to have a full PvP build and a full PvE build on the same character), it will also be of use to pure PvE players (eg solo vs group builds; TF/SF builds vs regular builds etc).
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As a non PvP'er myself that is exactly what I am planning to do with my multi builds. This also seems an interesting thing for Peacekeepers and Warshades. One build focussing on Dwarf form and another for the light form for example.
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Now that is a cracking idea 
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�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org
EU, Union mostly.
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Essentially ... I think you've extrapolated too far here, Ravenswing. Updating the existing PvP game in City of heroes does not mean moving a full resource focus to PvP, nor would it mean turning PvP into 'end game' for the entire community.
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Sorry, GR, but you're barking up the wrong tree, in the wrong forest, on the wrong planet.
My post was not responding to anything that NCNC have recently announced, or done, regarding PvP. I was responding to the specific poster to whom I was replying regarding a specific post he made.
He did not ask for PvP to be updated, he asked for it to become something that CoX "was renowned for." In order to achieve that, you're going to have to do a lot more work than has currently been announced, including changing the reward system in the PvP Zones, and marketing CoX (very heavily) as a PvP game. You would need to put a large amount of effort into the PvP side of the game. So much that it would detract from the PvE side. It would also attract a class of player I find personally offensive, and probably result in a fairly large defetion to CO.
Given that you made the mistake of assuming I was anti-PvP and was commenting on the recent announcements, and you were wrong I actually agree with a goodly bit of the remainder of your post. There is no reason why PvP enhancements cannot also be of benefit to PvE... it's just that it isn't generally the case.
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Simply take a look at what ArenaNet have done with Guild Wars in recent months: they have taken a range of skills in the game and separated them into PvP and PvE versions. Take the skill into a PvP zone and it uses one set of values, take it into a PvE zone and it uses the other. They did it precisely because by doing so they could balance skills appropriately for PvE enjoyment and balance those same skills differently for PvP, as needed. Any rebalancing for PvP does not necessarily require that the balance change has an impact on PvE (or as large an impact). In most cases the differences are subtle, however in others they can be quite drastic.
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Well, all I can say there is that the highly responsive NCNC team are obviously listening better than Cryptic did, seeing as posts suggesting that kind of behaviour were suggested over two years ago on these forums, and we were told at the time that they couldn't/wouldn't do it.
Considering all the PvE elements in PvP zones, I'd hope they plan to 'rebalance' the mobs in those zones as well. Otherwise there are going to be some very unhappy players. That rebalancing will need to be done manually, of course, since the mob powers are independent of the PC ones...
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Considering all the PvE elements in PvP zones, I'd hope they plan to 'rebalance' the mobs in those zones as well. Otherwise there are going to be some very unhappy players. That rebalancing will need to be done manually, of course, since the mob powers are independent of the PC ones...
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Castle has already stated that the PvE elements in the PvP zones will get harder because of these changes, so it looks like your hopes are going unanswered.
Not sure if he includes Mission instances accessed from PvP zones in that statement or its just zonal PvE content.
Source
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Castle has already stated that the PvE elements in the PvP zones will get harder because of these changes, so it looks like your hopes are going unanswered.
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Ah... so the amount of griefing by teleporting people into mobs should increase then? Lovelly.
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Not sure if he includes Mission instances accessed from PvP zones in that statement or its just zonal PvE content.
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I think the instances are classed as PvE, it's the getting to them that's PvP. That said, I'm not longer massively bothered since the amount of real PvE content in the late 30s has rizen to the point where you don't need to farm Warburg PvE missions for XP anymore.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Sorry, GR, but you're barking up the wrong tree, in the wrong forest, on the wrong planet.
My post was not responding to anything that NCNC have recently announced, or done, regarding PvP. I was responding to the specific poster to whom I was replying regarding a specific post he made.
He did not ask for PvP to be updated, he asked for it to become something that CoX "was renowned for." In order to achieve that, you're going to have to do a lot more work than has currently been announced, including changing the reward system in the PvP Zones, and marketing CoX (very heavily) as a PvP game. You would need to put a large amount of effort into the PvP side of the game. So much that it would detract from the PvE side.
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*ahem* No, I knew what you were saying. I believe CoH can become a game in which the PvP can garner a reputation for excellence. Being renowned for having good PvP doesn't mean you need to make your game a PvP-focus game, and it doesn't mean you need to neglect your PvE. And, as I said, if done right a lot of the things that could be done to improve on PvP in CoH could have beneficial effects for the PvE community as well. Likewise, many developments for PvE could be leveraged to help assist the development of PvP.
All it takes is a little thinking beyond the simple boxes of "this is for PvE" and "this is for PvP", because in my experience there is a lot of crossover between the two and that a well designed feature can be beneficial to both communities and thus help drive both PvE and PvP forward.
Edit: Put another way, I do not subscribe to the common perception that PvP and PvE are by necessity parasitic on each other when they coexist in one game. I fully believe that PvP and PvE can coexist in a symbiotic relationship. It just takes a design team that steps away from the 'parasite' mentality and considers whether an improvement for one or the other can be designed in such a way that it becomes useful to both.
Signed )
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
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Sorry, GR, but you're barking up the wrong tree, in the wrong forest, on the wrong planet.
My post was not responding to anything that NCNC have recently announced, or done, regarding PvP. I was responding to the specific poster to whom I was replying regarding a specific post he made.
He did not ask for PvP to be updated, he asked for it to become something that CoX "was renowned for." In order to achieve that, you're going to have to do a lot more work than has currently been announced, including changing the reward system in the PvP Zones, and marketing CoX (very heavily) as a PvP game. You would need to put a large amount of effort into the PvP side of the game. So much that it would detract from the PvE side.
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*ahem* No, I knew what you were saying. I believe CoH can become a game in which the PvP can garner a reputation for excellence. Being renowned for having good PvP doesn't mean you need to make your game a PvP-focus game, and it doesn't mean you need to neglect your PvE. And, as I said, if done right a lot of the things that could be done to improve on PvP in CoH could have beneficial effects for the PvE community as well. Likewise, many developments for PvE could be leveraged to help assist the development of PvP.
All it takes is a little thinking beyond the simple boxes of "this is for PvE" and "this is for PvP", because in my experience there is a lot of crossover between the two and that a well designed feature can be beneficial to both communities and thus help drive both PvE and PvP forward.
Edit: Put another way, I do not subscribe to the common perception that PvP and PvE are by necessity parasitic on each other when they coexist in one game. I fully believe that PvP and PvE can coexist in a symbiotic relationship. It just takes a design team that steps away from the 'parasite' mentality and considers whether an improvement for one or the other can be designed in such a way that it becomes useful to both.
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pwnage by GR
One thing you could think about is making more Arena maps - there seem to be a few complaints about AI enemies "messing up" PvP in the current PvP zones, so if you could instead choose to have an Arena match on, say, a totally empty Siren's Call map via the Arena terminals, that might be quite good.
You could even extend it to normally non-PvP zones - add all the safeguard/mayhem maps as Arena maps, for example.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The thing that could possibly bring people in would be if the PVP was worked on to the extent that it was renowned for being excellent, unlike now which is the opposite, sadly. Even then, PVP is not everybodys thing.
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This game started without any PvP. Making PvP the be-all and end-all of this game would destroy the playerbase it has and would be highly unlikely to attract anyone new.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.