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All i'm asking is that Invulnerability reflect it's LITERAL MEANING, at least a little bit.
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You're either truly invulnerable, and take no harm from anything, or not; being "a little bit" invulnerable presumably means you take some damage, so aren't truly invulnerable at all. Which is exactly how it works at the moment.
Seriously, for game balance purposes there's not a chance in hell of any AT getting 100% resistance to anything. If only because all the ATs have resistance caps at various levels, irrespective of whatever powers they're using.
If you don't like the set name, think of it as superhero hyperbole - it's far more impressive to introduce yourself as "Invulnerable Man" than "Reduced Damage Man". 
Yeah, I would actually agree to some slight tweaking. My main Hero is an invul/em tanker, and hes still fairly good, if a little underplayed. It does just feel like Invul is somehow lacking...
Rock Armour; Granite form
Fire armour; damage and perma-taunt
Willpower; psionic resistance and general cool stuff
Ice armour; hibernate
What does Invulnerabilty have compared to those? Admittedly I would take it over fire anyway, because fire has the least mez protection, but still...maybe make Unstoppable mean just that; totally invulnerable. Otherwise it feels like Invulnerable is just 'the generic tanker armour'...which is wrong.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yeah, I would actually agree to some slight tweaking. My main Hero is an invul/em tanker, and hes still fairly good, if a little underplayed. It does just feel like Invul is somehow lacking...
Rock Armour; Granite form
Fire armour; damage and perma-taunt
Willpower; psionic resistance and general cool stuff
Ice armour; hibernate
What does Invulnerabilty have compared to those? Admittedly I would take it over fire anyway, because fire has the least mez protection, but still...maybe make Unstoppable mean just that; totally invulnerable. Otherwise it feels like Invulnerable is just 'the generic tanker armour'...which is wrong.
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Baring Granite form which has it's own drawbacks, Invun gives the best resistance in the game to every damage type except Psionic.
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Yeah, I would actually agree to some slight tweaking. My main Hero is an invul/em tanker, and hes still fairly good, if a little underplayed. It does just feel like Invul is somehow lacking...
Rock Armour; Granite form
Fire armour; damage and perma-taunt
Willpower; psionic resistance and general cool stuff
Ice armour; hibernate
What does Invulnerabilty have compared to those? Admittedly I would take it over fire anyway, because fire has the least mez protection, but still...maybe make Unstoppable mean just that; totally invulnerable. Otherwise it feels like Invulnerable is just 'the generic tanker armour'...which is wrong.
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Baring Granite form which has it's own drawbacks, Invun gives the best resistance in the game to every damage type except Psionic.
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Really? Hmm...fair doos then XD
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Baring Granite form which has it's own drawbacks, Invun gives the best resistance in the game to every damage type except Psionic.
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Indeed it does, without any drawbacks at all. The Unstoppable health and end crash can also be countered so i see nothing "weak" about the set at all.
Maybe a little too strong tbh
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
...what? invul does not have the best resistances at all, it's barely 30% to anything except S/L... how is that good?
I'm pretty sure Elec has by far the best resistances, and no, the pathetic amount of def invul gets does not make up for it.
Ivun:
Unenhanced maximum 112.5% resistance to S/L, 82.5% resistance to F/C/E/N/P.
Elec, not available to tankers, brute gets maximum 78.8% resistance to most damage types. with tanker multipliers this would be higher than invun, but in practice they would be equal, since they would both hit the cap when slotted. But without any self heal, max hp buff, or +def, elec would be far far weaker, apart from vs psi damage, where elec is way ahead.
I really should do something about this signature.
So what you're saying is the 1 power that gets the least amount of use by almost every Invuln tanker I know (unstoppable) is the reason why Invuln isn't a weak set? Please, at least TRY and be realistic with it. Granite armour is a toggle, and gets more use than unstoppable no questions act, so I'm supposed to believe that STONE makes you more resistant than being Invulnerable? Perhaps the set should just be renamed to "Invulnerability for 3 minutes then facecplant. The rest of the time half-decent resistance and weak defence (unless of course you're surrounded by mobs in which case invincibility will make you less vulnerable)?"
here u go heres one to think about
The Honouree hes invun iirc
need say no more
Is not going to remain VIP after Jan 14th 2012, but may remain an active Premium account holder.
See some of you guys/gals in other/new MMOs Soon(tm)
N.B. If you are going to do smt, please do it or GTFO and STFU nab
So an AV who's fairly easy to defeat is your justification for a powerset that doesn't come close to living up to it's name? Ok then...
it all depends on the team ..... hes hard if he doesnt hit unstoppable
i had a lot of fails on him hes not that easy
Is not going to remain VIP after Jan 14th 2012, but may remain an active Premium account holder.
See some of you guys/gals in other/new MMOs Soon(tm)
N.B. If you are going to do smt, please do it or GTFO and STFU nab
There's certainly a lot you can do with set bonuses.
My duo partner's Invul/SS tank was the *only* tank in 3 of our (successful) MoSTF runs. This, once again, comes down to player ability > generic sweeping statements about the set. Rattles back in prams please guys. I strongly feel invul is fine as is, some may disagree. Regardless, we will all leave the interwubs entirely unchanged people
It always makes me chuckle when people purely talk about the res that inv offers and not the soft cap-able def
I never said that Invuln wasn't useable, my main toon (as I already said) is an invuln tanker and I love that toon more than any of my others. The discussion is about the set actually reflecting it's name, which it doesn't. A set called "Invulnerability" should have a lot more of a sense of being invulnerable than it currently does. And it certainly shouldn't be weaker than a set based around stone!
1) This is a game. Having one powerset that is designed to be better than the others is so clearly stupid I am amazed anyone could suggest it. For one, it makes the existance of any other powersets largely pointless. They might get used by a small numer of players for concept reasons, but they would find it very difficult to find a place on a team with a "weak" set.
2) Not even Superman is completly invunerable. I seem to remember Doomsday beating him to death using entierly S/L damage, without a trace of kryptonite.
3) Have you ever tried to smash a block of granite?
4) You clearly woefully underestimate how effective Invun is, despite having played it. Maybe you need to look to your +def?
I really should do something about this signature.
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A set called "Invulnerability" should have a lot more of a sense of being invulnerable than it currently does. And it certainly shouldn't be weaker than a set based around stone!
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Pardon me if this comes off rather rude, but that's the stupidest line of argument i've heard in a long time. And this is an interwub forum about a videogame!
As someone mentioned earlier, quite correctly, it's merely the hyperbole of the genre. Nobody wants to be called 'resistant to stuff-man'. Invuls can be made to emulate their (lol apparently ill given) name, without the reliance on unstoppable.
Also: PRAF's post
I feel invulnerable unless fight psionics, the amount of defence i can get on top of my already highish resistances make invul one of the best tanker sets for large groups of foes, and when the poop hits the fan there's always the panic button.
saying that i hope we get elec tanks in I13
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So an AV who's fairly easy to defeat is your justification for a powerset that doesn't come close to living up to it's name? Ok then...
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Anyone who hasn't managed to gank the Honoree to death in the first few minutes should know the pain that his Unstoppable causes. He doesnt crash. Seriously. He just starts taking damage again. And the Unstoppable. Ad infinatum.
Admittedly we were on a reduced team with no team leader, which sucked. But there you go.
My one gripe is that Impervium Armour is so expensive :P bah!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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[ QUOTE ]
Ivun:
Unenhanced maximum 112.5% resistance to S/L, 82.5% resistance to F/C/E/N/P.
Elec, not available to tankers, brute gets maximum 78.8% resistance to most damage types. with tanker multipliers this would be higher than invun, but in practice they would be equal, since they would both hit the cap when slotted. But without any self heal, max hp buff, or +def, elec would be far far weaker, apart from vs psi damage, where elec is way ahead.
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yeah, and for how long of any given period is that? whats that you say? only 3 mins? at which point you are massively easy to kill?
when did unstop become perma? or are you just so obsessed with that you haven't recalled that sometimes you are fighting for more than three minuets at a time? and if you suddenly have to bounce out of combat you will possibly get the rest of the team killed?
I was just comparing maximums. Elecs tier 9 has exactly the same recharge and a similar crash to Unstoppable.
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sometimes you are fighting for more than three minuets at a time?
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You might if you have a self heal. the chances of a hypothetical electric tank suviving that long without a pet empath are minimal.
I really should do something about this signature.
I think invuln is a good set as it is, the only thing it's lacking is debuff resistance (which Castle is probably adding in the near future). As Castle said, most people think invuln is weak because they skip the lacking (at least for scrappers and brutes) passives.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
the passives, even on tanks are pathetically weak, i think you can get up to 12% res off them 3 slotted with IO's, that's not a good return for the investment.
And that's 12% more damage they take all the time.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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And that's 12% more damage they take all the time.
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^ That
I'm an avid tanker, I love everything about the style of playing and that'll never change. But I find that my favourite AT seems to have a few inconsistencies in powerset strengths. Why is invulnerability so gimped compared to other sets? (Don't get me wrong here, my main toon is Invul, chosen for concept as a RPer, but I have played all of the other sets.)
It doesn't make sense that other sets make you less vulnerable, than invulnerability. Let's have a look at this.
Invulnerable
adj.
1.Immune to attack; impregnable.
2.Impossible to damage, injure, or wound.
(American Heritage Dictionary)
This implies something much stronger than what we have in game. For example a stone tank is far more resistant than an invuln tank. Now let's look at this in another context, if somebody was about to drop a big bomb on you. Would you rather be sat in a stone box (building) or would you rather be "Impossible to damage, injure or wound?" I know where my choice would be. Similarly, Willpower is another powerset which handles damage far easier than Invulnerable. So if somebody levelled a gun at you, would you rather have the strength of will to carry on going, after being shot OR would you rather be "impossible to damage, injure or wound?"
All i'm asking is that Invulnerability reflect it's LITERAL MEANING, at least a little bit. Now, don't get me wrong, I know that changes are being made to the powerset. Unfortunately, the changes I've read about on forums really don't seem like they're going to make a huge difference on the powerset in general, especially when you compare them to the strength of other powersets and the fact that by definition, Invulnerability should be easily able to keep up with those sets in term of defense and damage resistance, WITH EASE.