Tanker powersets
Actually, I haven't skipped a single invuln power on my tank, and the fact remains it is still overall a less effective powerset for tanking than the ones i've mentioned earlier. And i'm sorry but the person who said "have you ever tried smashing a block of granite" tell me when granite was "IMPOSSIBLE TO HARM INJURE OR WOUND" because that's teh lteral definition of invulnerable. WHich granite, isn't.
Ok, I have just calculated the combined effective damage mitigation from both res and def for invunerability, including SO slotting, not including unstoppable, IOs, or any pool powers and it comes out as:
S/L: 90.3% (it is possible to exceed the cap with both res and def)
F/C/E/N/T: 79.15%
Psi: -10%
Note that you do need to have 10 mobs in the AOE of Invincibility to achieve this level of protection, but that is due to change in issue 13, along with the -10% psi.
I really should do something about this signature.
Working please, because frankly from some 2500 hours of playing a invul tanker, i would massively doubt those figures.
Which my main point was, unless you are surrounded by mobs, you aren't even close to invulnerable. Now if in fact this changes in i13 with a revised Invincibility, I'll happily withdraw my statement on the gimped-ness of the set. But as it stands, it should be could "pretty tough" not "invulnverability."
If you are incapable of understanding why you cannot be literally invunerable in a MMO, then it is clearly a waste of energy trying to explain anything to you.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Working please, because frankly from some 2500 hours of playing a invul tanker, i would massively doubt those figures.
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Base S/L resistance, 42.5% x 1.56 for SO slotting = 66.%
Defense from invince, 10 mobs + Tough Hide = 26% x 1.56% for slotting = 40.56%, -5% for unyealding = 35.56%
Statistcally, 1% def is equivelent to 2% res, = 71.12%.
Combine with resistance, remembering to reduce the total, because an attack that has been defended against does not need to be resisted. 71.12 + 66.3x(100-71.12)/100 = 90.3%
I really should do something about this signature.
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But as it stands, it should be could "pretty tough" not "invulnverability."
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There's the answer then, we just need to change the name.
Invulnerability becomes Pretty Tough But Your Brain Fries.
or maybe: Invulnerable for Three Minutes.
And then we can have:
Regen -> Pocket Empath With Random High-Res/Def Power.
Stone -> Lots of Res and some Def, I Mean How Hard is it to Hit a Rock, Oh Yeah, and Don't Move.
Willpower -> Random Bag of Stuff We Got Out Of Other Sets, Don't Attack AVs.
Truth in Advertising, it's the way forward.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Base S/L resistance, 42.5% x 1.56 for SO slotting = 66.%
Defense from invince, 10 mobs + Tough Hide = 26% x 1.56% for slotting = 40.56%, -5% for unyealding = 35.56%
Statistcally, 1% def is equivelent to 2% res, = 71.12%.
Combine with resistance, remembering to reduce the total, because an attack that has been defended against does not need to be resisted. 71.12 + 66.3x(100-71.12)/100 = 90.3%
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ahh, the "1% def equals 2% res" thing is utter rubbish, and if you rely on it to know how your character plays, your going to die a lot.
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But as it stands, it should be could "pretty tough" not "invulnverability."
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There's the answer then, we just need to change the name.
Invulnerability becomes Pretty Tough But Your Brain Fries.
or maybe: Invulnerable for Three Minutes.
And then we can have:
Regen -> Pocket Empath With Random High-Res/Def Power.
Stone -> Lots of Res and some Def, I Mean How Hard is it to Hit a Rock, Oh Yeah, and Don't Move.
Willpower -> Random Bag of Stuff We Got Out Of Other Sets, Don't Attack AVs.
Truth in Advertising, it's the way forward.
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All part of the "Computer Simulation of A City Where One Pretends to be a Hero" fun.
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Base S/L resistance, 42.5% x 1.56 for SO slotting = 66.%
Defense from invince, 10 mobs + Tough Hide = 26% x 1.56% for slotting = 40.56%, -5% for unyealding = 35.56%
Statistcally, 1% def is equivelent to 2% res, = 71.12%.
Combine with resistance, remembering to reduce the total, because an attack that has been defended against does not need to be resisted. 71.12 + 66.3x(100-71.12)/100 = 90.3%
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ahh, the "1% def equals 2% res" thing is utter rubbish, and if you rely on it to know how your character plays, your going to die a lot.
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Uhm...not really. Have you ever tried fighting some of the people who play defensive sets well? Stalkers are supposed to be squishy, yes? Wrong, not if you cant hit them *at all*...
Thats said, what are we actually debating here? Tanks in PVE or PVP? Cos in PVP, Invul tanks tend to lose. End of, as far as I know.
In PVE, they are damned hard to kill. I should know, I've had mine wade through hordes of purple mobs, taunting every damn thing in range.
And, yeah, if you try and solo them, you will likely die, because tanks were built to be team players. A dead enemy is the best enemy, cos they cant hit you at all.
Calling for 'True' invulnerability is going to fall on sensible ears, and thus go nowhere.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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I'm doing nothing of the sort, i think the tweaks that need to happen to invul are small, and as far as i know already under consideration at NorCal.
also, why should tanks be team players? for the AVs and the like yes, but for regualr mobs? no, they are ment to be the toughest AT in the game, and at the moment i don't think invul lives up to that title.
I never asked for tru einvulnerability, I asked for the powersets to better reflect the names. Especially in the sense of stone tankers being more invulnerable than invuln tankers. I never asked for literal invulnerability, just for the powersets to make better sense. I've already pointed out that I love my invuln tanker (my first and only 50) more than any of my other toons, this isn't a self-serving suggestion, it's a suggestion made from something i've noticed, that invulnerable tankers are in fact MORE vulnerable than certain other sets, which makes no sense. Cass seems to be of a similar way of thinking to me, an invuln tanker is not as "tough" as they should be. Perhaps the tweaks only need to be small, I don't know, but the fact that to get the sort of resistance ability implied by "invulnerability" you have to be surrounded by mobs is a little hard to stomach when all a stone tanker has to do is hit a toggle and they can out-tank almost anyone on mechanics alone (again don't get me wrong, i've been standing when two other tanks - both stone - in teh team have faceplanted, but that's more through playing ability than the powerset.) I fully nderstand the weakness to psionics, that's fine, what I don't understand is the dependence on enemies to give you the best resistance you can get without clicking "god mode." Invinc is possibly the power i'd like to see revised most of all because of this fact.
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all a stone tanker has to do is hit a toggle and they can out-survive almost anyone on mechanics alone
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Fixed that for you
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i think the tweaks that need to happen to invul are small, and as far as i know already under consideration at NorCal.
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Although I'd disagree with the use of 'need' (but of course someone is bound to, so that's a moot point from me), I agree with Cass here. Nothing major needs to be done. The point about the passives being meager compared to other sets I also agree with. So all in all, things are looking up for ol' invul. Those who like theirs as is, will be happy. Those who think they don't live up to their title will also be happy.
Everybody wins, so why are we fighting?
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ahh, the "1% def equals 2% res" thing is utter rubbish, and if you rely on it to know how your character plays, your going to die a lot.
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Statisticaly, it's absolutly true (provided you adjust for the overlap, as I have done, when you have bth res and def), but if you refuse to accept mathematical truth, then it's unsuprising you don't get full performance out of you Invun tanker.
However, my main is an Ice tanker. I know how def works. Do I die a lot? No, hardly ever.
Now, the figures I calculated do not represent how an Invun tanker performs in actual play. For one, you rarely have 10 mobs in the aoe. Larger mobs won't physically fit. Then def is vunerable to debuffs, and hit buffs, add into that the tendancy of players to skip or underslot the passives, and you have your explanation of why people think Invun underperforms. Fortunatly, Castle is planning on making a few alterations to aleviate these issues.
I really should do something about this signature.
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they are ment to be the toughest AT in the game, and at the moment i don't think invul lives up to that title.
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Try slotting an inv, i dont agree w/that statement
yeah granite has major drawbacks like the slow recharge, the slowed running and unable to fly and reduced damage so personally for day to day tanking i got for invunrable just because if you ain't got a kin in the team invun don't need speed boost or anything like that until they need a power up fast
I dont often post on these forums in fact I never do but this 'Suggestion is completely ridiculous
U said you wanted Invulnerability to mean its literal meaning but as far as Im concerned you obviously have no understanding of the term and how its used in the comic book world.
Invulnerability just means that you are able to withstand huge proportions of damage, which the power set achieves maybe not as well as a granite but theres a reason for that.
Lets look at several comic book heroes and villains.
Superman, highly resistant to any form of damage except: energy, magic and of course kryptonite
Rouge/Ms Marvel, again highly durable (note both are classed as having invulnerability) to all forms of smashing and lethal damage but energy blasts can knock them out
Gladiator, he is basically the marvel version of superman, and is only vulnerable to energy and psychic attacks
The list goes on and on.
All heroes have their weaknesses including the ones which are classed as invulnerable. None of them can withstand psychic damage they have all been taken over by some kind of mind controlled ability in their time
Also to say that Granite is to powerful than invulnerability, there is a reason for that the fact is your character draws his strength directly from the earth, hence the reason you cant travel, and why rooted only works on the ground. Also I dont know about you but the she strength of the earth I can imagine is very hard to destroy hence the only way to defeat it is to attack its core (mind)
So imo your suggestion is completely stupid, and not really worth any of these players time
yes, on top of the mighty 15% they get from unyeilding, what [censored] stats, how could they ever fall in battle?