I think we're starting to come close to an accord, here.
A few basic assumptions, to start.
1) No one wants to limit creativity.
2) The game-world is real.
3) There are reasonable game-world explanations as to why some game-mechanical effects exist.
4) You are not tied to those limits, but can use them.
With those assumptions in place, you can say that your character is registered or not. A member of a certain organisation or not. A hero or a villain. Good or evil. Rich or poor. Drives or doesn't.
Game-world lore includes some tidbits of information such as the fact that Vanguard won't let just anyone into the RWZ. There are MANY explanations as to why your character can or cannot get in. However, the default assumption is that heroes are registered and have a Security Level, and once that rating pops up to 35, Vanguard will happily let them through. Interesting characters, however, spring from people who aren't cookie-cutter, but is it unreasonable for players and characters to assume unless they found out otherwise, IC that the default assumption is the right one?
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Game-world lore includes some tidbits of information such as the fact that Vanguard won't let just anyone into the RWZ. There are MANY explanations as to why your character can or cannot get in. However, the default assumption is that heroes are registered and have a Security Level, and once that rating pops up to 35, Vanguard will happily let them through. Interesting characters, however, spring from people who aren't cookie-cutter, but is it unreasonable for players and characters to assume unless they found out otherwise, IC that the default assumption is the right one?
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True and if said unregistered person was talking about stuff that would require a clearance level to obtain and said registered character knew the other character wasn't registered I'd expect the unregistered person to have some explanation as to how they got in there.
But while IC assuming everyone does things the same way as you is fine slightly naive but pretty much normal characterization for most people in the world, OOC claiming its the only way because you use certain game play mechanics in way X is a bit much.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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I'm still waiting for an answer as to why they'd let a normal guy into a war zone, with out his power armour thats the source of all his abilities, just because he'd brought along the correct piece of ID.
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Because they'll assume he's not idiotic enough to commit suicide. He has the right SL. He can get in. If he chooses to kill himself in the process, well, it was his choice to get in in the first place.
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I'd also like to know why they 'trust' you less when your being side kicked, and why if your security level goes down you forget how to use your powers.
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I assume you mean exemped, not SK'd? In which case, they're worried that you might harm your companion, and so will refuse you entry. As for loss of powers - you're there to help someone less experienced than you improve - would you really waste their learning process by going all-out with your own powers?
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I mean since were all apparently playing the game wrong maybe those who are playing it correctly can tell us why this happens?
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I certainly don't think anyone's playing the game wrong, I just happen to think that it's possible to come up with realistic explanations for some game-mechanical effects that will allow us to explain why those game-mechanical effects impact our characters without requiring that each and every character comes up with their own explanation. But if you want to create your own, then go for it!
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Please note I have reached the point after a late night where I become made out of unprocessed sarcasium.
[/ QUOTE ] No worries, happens to us all.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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True and if said unregistered person was talking about stuff that would require a clearance level to obtain and said registered character knew the other character wasn't registered I'd expect the unregistered person to have some explanation as to how they got in there.
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Glad we agree on that 
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But while IC assuming everyone does things the same way as you is fine slightly naive but pretty much normal characterization for most people in the world, OOC claiming its the only way because you use certain game play mechanics in way X is a bit much.
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AHA! And this is where the problem lies. I am not and never have claimed that "thus and so is the only way to do it". What I have done is say that "thus and so is how the game-world assumes it works". Break the mould. That's where good characters come from. But by the same token, since the game-world assumes things work in a particular way (enforced by the game-mechanics), people need to consider the consequences of going against the flow with their characters.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
I tend to go with the normal answer if it's not of importance or point of real conflict for my character, the rest will usually deviate from the norm a little (or a lot!)
Fans is registered, then again this is because she's so rigid about Goverment Control being a good thing. She'd love to support Licences being swept in too!
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AHA! And this is where the problem lies. I am not and never have claimed that "thus and so is the only way to do it". What I have done is say that "thus and so is how the game-world assumes it works". Break the mould. That's where good characters come from. But by the same token, since the game-world assumes things work in a particular way (enforced by the game-mechanics), people need to consider the consequences of going against the flow with their characters.
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Excellent now we are all agreed and chummy again I can actually get back to the writing I was planning to do today 
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Onus can't be working at Up and Away, I can't even get in the door. Toxic can't be blackmailing NPC's for political gain, as they don't even interact with me and the effect isn't representable in game!
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I'd just like to bring this up again, as the original post seemed to get dismissed after the first example.
Putting aside the main argument for now, why is it that security levels are taken as a strictly IC representation of ability and survival above and beyond other game mechanics? It does strike me as a little unusual, and inconsistent, to roleplay or use things that aren't part of the core experience yet adhere to this one specific instance of it.
Personally, I've always used the security level AND combat levels ICly. One is a measure of access my characters are permitted to various government resources and information, and one is a rough rating to their combat skill.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
That doesn't answer the question.
Why use THIS one mechanic ICly when there are so many others that get cast aside for the sake of simplicity? Where is the line drawn and why? Nobody actually answered the person who originally posted my quote.
The answer? Because Security Level is used in the game world. Your ability to have a job, enter buildings, interact with civilians etc, etc ad nauseum is not.
We fudge aside game mechanics on how powers work, true, but because Security Level has an impact on your ability to interact with the game-world, and because it is specifically drawn to your attention in certain situations (like Hazard Zone entry), we feel that we have to give it a nod.
Edit: Also, please note that I don't use CL very much. I have a Peacebringer version of my main (for cossie slots, mostly), who is L30 currently. But my main is L50. When I'm playing my PB I don't assume he's suddenly dropped in SL. A character is as powerful as the player says it is. But in terms of NPC interaction your SL matters, though there's nothing that says "your SL is this on this character, and you can't pretend otherwise". Of course, if I want to go into the RWZ, I'll take my main, not my PB.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Well, it depends what parts you mean, really. I use pretty much all the game mechanisms ICly as much as is possible. Gimme some specifics!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Ok - inventions? Does your character really go down to the auction house, spend some of her fame on a recipe and two or three rare magical artefacts, weld them together with more fame, and attach it to one application of her powers?
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
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Ok - inventions? Does your character really go down to the auction house, spend some of her fame on a recipe and two or three rare magical artefacts, weld them together with more fame, and attach it to one application of her powers?
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In case of Iron Works, Steel House and Impervium Tower, yes I do. Not the AH/BM though as that does not make sense to me. But collecting and using salvage from drops to ether repair or upgrade the units then yes I would RP use of the invention system.
Credit goes to FrankyT49 for animated avatar
List of toons on Union Handbook
Leon Tasker: "Dunelm Group! What is your profession?"
Dunelm Group: "OOOOORRRAAAAH!"
Hmm... ICly I accept the auction house system exists, but as far as my characters are aware, it's just like a trading house where pretty much anything you want can be got, as long as you have something to trade in exchange. Ellie doesn't really have need to use it ICly, as all her abilities are innate to her; but she does know of heroes who obtain technological and magical items from it.
As for the influence side of things. I generally exchange influence for dollars in my mind. When Ellie visits Icon, she pays in dollars, not fame.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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The answer? Because Security Level is used in the game world. Your ability to have a job, enter buildings, interact with civilians etc, etc ad nauseum is not.
We fudge aside game mechanics on how powers
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And I'm afraid this is where the argument loses me. Powers have an impact on your ability to interact with the game-world, as does the lack of a secret identity option, as does the lack of AI responding to you in anything other than a pre-defined way, etc. It just seems that, as I said, people are leaping all over the "security level = IC" part of the world but ignoring other aspects of it.
I can see where the argument is coming from so don't get me wrong there, but it's a little jarring to see this kind of inconsistency crop up. :/
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The answer? Because Security Level is used in the game world. Your ability to have a job, enter buildings, interact with civilians etc, etc ad nauseum is not.
We fudge aside game mechanics on how powers
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And I'm afraid this is where the argument loses me. Powers have an impact on your ability to interact with the game-world, as does the lack of a secret identity option, as does the lack of AI responding to you in anything other than a pre-defined way, etc. It just seems that, as I said, people are leaping all over the "security level = IC" part of the world but ignoring other aspects of it.
I can see where the argument is coming from so don't get me wrong there, but it's a little jarring to see this kind of inconsistency crop up. :/
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if you don't fudge the power mechanics thought you all have the same powers for the same reasons, so fudging that is pretty much required.
And if you don't fudge the security levels and threat levels (assuming for the sake of argument they've all hit the cap), a guy in a tuxedo is the same threat level as a god who has the same threat level as a medic who has the same security level as a cop who has the same security level as a ten year old kid who has the same security level as a deadly assassin.
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about in regards to consistency.
Fans is security level 50, but I know that a lot of people are far more powerful than her on a roleplay level. Sure she's tough to kill and pretty strong but she's far from invincible or unstoppable! there's a fair list of people who I could name who have a signifcantly higher power level at 50 and a few who are lower too!
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It just seems that, as I said, people are leaping all over the "security level = IC" part of the world but ignoring other aspects of it.
I can see where the argument is coming from so don't get me wrong there, but it's a little jarring to see this kind of inconsistency crop up. :/
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Here's my way of looking at it: what's wrong with security levels? The other things that have been mentioned get fudged because they don't make sense.
Paragon's citizens can't be bulletproof pieces of scenery. Shops that people can't go into, can't exist. The majority of badges can't be imagined simply popping into existence when some arbitary condition is met. There can be such a business as Wentworth's Consignments, but I sincerely doubt it would trade in plutonium. But security levels work just fine. Why reject them, when we don't reject, for example, the existence of Freedom Corps, or the monorail, or Pocket D?
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
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And if you don't fudge the security levels and threat levels (assuming for the sake of argument they've all hit the cap), a guy in a tuxedo is the same threat level as a god who has the same threat level as a medic who has the same security level as a cop who has the same security level as a ten year old kid who has the same security level as a deadly assassin.
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about in regards to consistency.
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well one, no ones character is god powerful, other wise they wouldn't be a reserve member of the FP, two, this is why security level is different from combat level. SL is the rating that the FBSL give you when you have proved your self, not that you are Statesman 2. the threat level thing is more difficult, but i guess again that what ever the character appears to be they can generate a certain level of treat if they choose to.
but then Villains is all sorts of messy. the lack of ability to be proactive for a start.
I don't think we're objecting to thier existance, I think it's the slightly vindictive argument that people can't POSSIBLY join Vanguard without having them assigned is my objection. Or that people are somehow unable to work out how powerful someone is unless FC has tagged a number onto them!
Also it just doesn't make sense Vanguard would want you to go get a Security Rating rather than just trial you, especially when they're assigned by Freedom Corp. Which Vanguard don't particularly get along with, what with them occupying the same warzone in a rather bitter rivalry.
If it wasn't stated as such in the game lore, it wouldn't be a problem. But it is, so we should work with that, not just throw it away. Otherwise, as I've been saying, you're just playing Backgammon on someone else's Monopoly board.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
So joining Vanguard without a Security level (Something announced in game to notify you what level the zone is OOC) breaks the game world?
Really? C'mon. it's like saying Monopoly's no longer Monopoly if I paint the boot red.
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If it wasn't stated as such in the game lore, it wouldn't be a problem. But it is, so we should work with that, not just throw it away.
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I've seen things stated in NPC dialoge that make no sense from an RP perpective. Should I work with that too?
The Devs have added flavour to game mechanics. Flavour, what flavour is up to the one tasting it.
If I want to take Rosa into the RWZ, I can't because she's lvl 31 as the highest. I can take her to Sirens... but only the 2 versions of her, is having a lvl8 version then a reason that it's not possible to even be in Bloody Bay?
We fudge a lot of things.. like there being crime on every corner of the street, and often enough between those too. Where do the criminals come from? it's fudged, though they're there in the game world, shouldn't we work with that?
Well, long story short...
You play your game with your IC assumptions, and I'll play my game with my IC assumptions. CL and SL don't excist in my IC assumption but when interacting and it comes up, I play along. That's right, I adabt 
And if I want to make/play a lvl1 character who's been in in the RWZ getting chased by Rikti and Warwolves and has been to Warburg hunting Arachnids... I'm pretty sure you'd go along with that too.
@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity
If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.
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I was just saying alright, you know different interpitation and all that? >.>
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Yeah I wouldn't of mentioned it but I was actually looking at my ID card rewriting something at that moment
I'm still waiting for an answer as to why they'd let a normal guy into a war zone, with out his power armour thats the source of all his abilities, just because he'd brought along the correct piece of ID.
I'd also like to know why they 'trust' you less when your being side kicked, and why if your security level goes down you forget how to use your powers.
I mean since were all apparently playing the game wrong maybe those who are playing it correctly can tell us why this happens?
Please note I have reached the point after a late night where I become made out of unprocessed sarcasium.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.