Considering she only has Ring of Fire, Char, Cinders and Fire Imps - she's all ST. My point is though even with Hot Feet and EF my damage still won't be higher than a Blaster. Hell even with Fire Ball thrown in I wouldn't exactly be doing good damage vs high con mobs combared to a well built AoE Blaster.
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APP damage was halved (iirc) so with the change: with containment they have the same values as they used to have before containment was added.
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Indeed. they where nerfed because of containment. This nerf could well be reversed if containment where changed.
I really should do something about this signature.
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To be fair, how many damage dealing powers (that can potentially out-damage a Blaster) do Controller's get? Sure, my damage output on Propel against a "Contained" mob is powerful, but it's also incredibly slow "casting" time, uses a lot of Endurance, and isn't spectacularly accurate. Maybe other Controller's are different (I've only got a high level Grav/Emp to my account name), but I don't think I'm particularly overpowered.
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Quite true. If you want a high damage controller you need to have powers that do decient damage in the first place, but such powers are available to controllers with certain primaries and secondaries. Another critisism of containment, it benefiots some primary/secondary combinations far more than others.
And admitedly, the high damage I get with Ill/TA isn't really down to containment all that much.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Another critisism of containment, it benefiots some primary/secondary combinations far more than others.
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But it benifits all controllers the same. It isn't containements fault that some sets do more damage than others is it? And some sets doing more damage than other sets is par across all ATs isnt it? (Broadsword as opposed to Claws, and a Fire tank does more damage than an ice tank (primary), but a pure fire/fire tank will out damage any other type of tank)
I am trying to work out what your problem is, but you seem unable to prove a point with out saying words you need to say, as you know it will degenerate into a you cant play like this war.
Edit: Corrected mistake in the thread title that has been bugging me for days but just kept forgetting to change it 
I wasn't trying to prove anything, so I don't know what your problem is. I simply asked a "what if" question.
And for the umteeth time, I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE A BALDY FARMER SO GET OVER YOUR PARANOIA ALREADY.
I do think there are problems with containment conceptualy (which has absolutely nothing to do with farming. If the devs think farming is a problem then it needs to be tackled through the rewards system). I do think it is a problem if an inherent benefits someone who chooses a "high damage" primary more than a "high control" primary. Your comparison with scrappers is false. Claws and BS do equvelent damage, it just that claws does it with many small attacks, while BS does it with fewer larger attacks. But most imprtantly, a scrappers primary function is to do damage, and they have an inherent that helps them with thier primary fuction.
I would love it if my controller inherent made me more effective against AVs. I would give up a lot of aoe damage for that.
I think the defender and tanker inherents need to be looked at too (gauntlet is fine conceptually, but doesn't work well enough in practice).
I really should do something about this signature.
More effective against AV's?
You mean besides the basically perma immob (= perma containment) and buffs/debuffs you bring to the team?
Illusion has no immob.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I think the defender and tanker inherents need to be looked at too (gauntlet is fine conceptually, but doesn't work well enough in practice).
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So now your on to not being happy with Defenders or Tanks..Anyone else seeing a pattern here??
Yes, im asking for buffs.
I really should do something about this signature.
Even if they do try and change this 'problem' it will most likely only make it to test like the former Stalker changes and Rage lol
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Yes, im asking for buffs.
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But you have a problem with Containment? Which is a buff to help controllers!! 
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Yes, im asking for buffs.
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But you have a problem with Containment? Which is a buff to help controllers!!
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He seems to be getting confused with himself, a sign of a poorly thought out thread??
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I wasn't trying to prove anything, so I don't know what your problem is. I simply asked a "what if" question.
And for the umteeth time, I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE A BALDY FARMER SO GET OVER YOUR PARANOIA ALREADY.
I do think there are problems with containment conceptualy (which has absolutely nothing to do with farming. If the devs think farming is a problem then it needs to be tackled through the rewards system). I do think it is a problem if an inherent benefits someone who chooses a "high damage" primary more than a "high control" primary. Your comparison with scrappers is false. Claws and BS do equvelent damage, it just that claws does it with many small attacks, while BS does it with fewer larger attacks. But most imprtantly, a scrappers primary function is to do damage, and they have an inherent that helps them with thier primary fuction.
I would love it if my controller inherent made me more effective against AVs. I would give up a lot of aoe damage for that.
I think the defender and tanker inherents need to be looked at too (gauntlet is fine conceptually, but doesn't work well enough in practice).
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no need to shout.
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I think the defender and tanker inherents need to be looked at too (gauntlet is fine conceptually, but doesn't work well enough in practice).
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Its a good job no one listens to anything you say, or we would be in a sorry state.
Thats controllers, tanks and defenders your not happy with, do you like any AT's?
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Yes, im asking for buffs.
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But you have a problem with Containment? Which is a buff to help controllers!!
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I think containment is conseptualy flawed. If controller is meant to be a low damage AT is should not get a buff to damage, it should get a buff to its ability to control instead.
If its not meant to be a low damage AT they should change the in game description.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Yes, im asking for buffs.
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But you have a problem with Containment? Which is a buff to help controllers!!
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He seems to be getting confused with himself, a sign of a poorly thought out thread??
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No, I'm getting pretty tired of people reading things into what I say that are QUITE SIMPLY NOT THERE.
Do I think controllers should be nerfed: NO I DON'T.
Do I think containment should be changed? Not nessasaraly. Am I interested in if our allegedly intellegent and creative comunity can come up with a superior suggestion? Yes.
Do I think controllers (or any AT/power) should be changed because of farming? Certainly not.
Have I ever said anything to indicate otherwise? No I haven't.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Even if they do try and change this 'problem' it will most likely only make it to test like the former Stalker changes and Rage lol
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The change to Rage from Only affects self to -999% damage is still happening. It is only the second change, -20% to zero recovery which is not happening.
The change to MoG is happening
The change to replusion bomb is happening
The War Mace buffs are happening.
The Ice melee buffs are happening.
I really should do something about this signature.
Praf68 - you're not making much sense here.
You don't want to Nerf rollers, but you want to change their inhernt power....
But changing the inhernt to something that will cause them to deal less damage is a nerf... but you don't want to nerf them, but you want to change their inhernt...
anyone else's head hurt?
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Do I think controllers should be nerfed: NO I DON'T.
Do I think containment should be changed? Not nessasaraly.
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To the first point it appears you do want certain Controller aspects nerfed, so in effect you think controllers should be nerfed (taking from comments in the other thread)
If you dont think containment should be changed why have you made points throughout this thread asking for suggestions to it as you dont think it does the job properly. Sounds like you want a change?
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I think the defender and tanker inherents need to be looked at too (gauntlet is fine conceptually, but doesn't work well enough in practice).
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Its a good job no one listens to anything you say, or we would be in a sorry state.
Thats controllers, tanks and defenders your not happy with, do you like any AT's?
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The ATs are ok. The inherents are flawed. the defender one rewards you for not defending your team. Gauntlet simply doesn't work half the time, and brutes get it for free along with another inherent.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I do think there are problems with containment conceptualy (which has absolutely nothing to do with farming. If the devs think farming is a problem then it needs to be tackled through the rewards system). I do think it is a problem if an inherent benefits someone who chooses a "high damage" primary more than a "high control" primary.
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One of the best reasons I've seen to suggest that containment may need looking at sometime.
The controller primaries do seem to vary quite a bit between differing ratios of control:damage. Maybe a containment effect that meant +x% damage and +y% mez duration (to already mezzed mobs) so that high damage and high control would both benefit suitably well?
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I think the defender and tanker inherents need to be looked at too (gauntlet is fine conceptually, but doesn't work well enough in practice).
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And fair enough comments.
Gauntlet is pretty fair to all tankers, but isn't as effective as I'd have thought it would be.
Vigilance is fair to most defender primaries (some may be very end-light most of the time), but would appear flawed when you consider that defenders only see any benefit when they aren't able to defend well enough.
I'm not entirely certain that everyone who's criticised PRAF over this has read the post whilst trying to ignore prejudice or preconceptions about him due to previous posts.
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Do I think controllers should be nerfed: NO I DON'T.
Do I think containment should be changed? Not nessasaraly.
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To the first point it appears you do want certain Controller aspects nerfed,
so in effect you think controllers should be nerfed (taking from comments in the other thread)
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I think controllers ability to control should be buffed, not nerfed. There is more to life than the ability to do damage. I have never said any kind of controller should be nerfed in any thread. I said I thought the devs where likely to nerf, based on my past experience of the developers. I never said I thought they would be right to do so.
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If you dont think containment should be changed why have you made points throughout this thread asking for suggestions to it as you dont think it does the job properly. Sounds like you want a change?
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I would like to see if someone can come up with something that lots of people think "oh yes, thats much better than containment, even though I like the waycontainment is now".
I do not believe everything in the game should be set in stone. It is not a sin to consider other options, even if, in the end, we decide that the current option is the best at the moment.
I really should do something about this signature.
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But changing the inhernt to something that will cause them to deal less damage is a nerf...
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NO IT ISN'T. The worth of an AT is not based soley on it's ability to do damage. I want to see the controllers primary ability buffed.
I really should do something about this signature.
So you would like to see a fire controllers primary buffed?
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I don't see why - my APP Blast on my Fire/Rad/Primal isn't exactly stellar and it certainly isn't AoE.
It's only a limited number of power combinations that really ramp up the damage, especially after the change to APP Blasts for Controllers.
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Sure - but your Controller had access to AoE damage from an Epic and still does if you respec. You chose not to take it, which is fine of course, but you certainly had access to it like all Controllers do. And somehow, I doubt your Fire/Rad needs the Epic attacks to do AoE damage in any case...
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