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So you would like to see a fire controllers primary buffed?
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Yes pls - my roller can't out blast a blaster....
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You seem to be a bit confused.
Buff is not a synonym for more damage.
However, personally, I don't think Fire Control is over powered, and I would like to see the fire imp nerf reversed.
I really should do something about this signature.
Moi? Confused?
I don't think so.
A buff is anything that increases the effectiveness of a toon. Therefore an increase to the damage output would be a buff. No statement was made as to what sort of buff should be given.
My most only assumed the buff would be to the damage output.
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A buff is anything that increases the effectiveness of a toon.
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True.
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Therefore an increase to the damage output would be a buff.
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True. However an incease in mez magnatude would also be a buff. A reduction in endurance cost would be a buff. An accuracy increase would be a buff. etc etc
Increasing damage is a buff. A buff does not have to mean increasing damage.
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My most only assumed the buff would be to the damage output.
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You seem to assume a lot of things that arn't true.
I really should do something about this signature.
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You seem to assume a lot of things that arn't true.
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I am not the only one am I.
And you also agreed that I was correct that a buff could increase the damage output - therefore my assumption could have been correct.
If your going to pick holes in my replies - make sure your own are water tight first.
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But changing the inhernt to something that will cause them to deal less damage is a nerf...
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NO IT ISN'T. The worth of an AT is not based soley on it's ability to do damage. I want to see the controllers primary ability buffed.
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I'd say it was a nerf as it would (theoretically) negatively impact the speed at which Controllers could solo irregardless of any increase in control.
Is rate of soloing the only valid criterion for rating the effectivness of an AT?
And here is me assuming CoH was a MMO. I must be catching it off Jade.
I really should do something about this signature.
I'd prefer a dmg buff over a control buff anytime on most trollers. IMO any non /empath troller is quite capable to keep several mobs under control at once with ease as they are, but any primary but fire or illu takes ages to kill a minion.
Soloing capabilities on the other hand, wouldn't be as important as they are if teaming was easier too. Sadly soloing has a major importance in this game tho, mainly if u play defiant side
Ok..since we've (apparantly) have established this isn't about nerfing controllers but actually buffing their capabilities in the controlling area, why is it you're so adamant in changing the inherent? I think it's fairly safe to say that Containment is regarded as one of the best inherents in the game but you still feel it's a top priority to change it?
You can use all the capital letters in the world to try and convince yourself that you're actually trying to help controllers instead of crying for nerfs but this is pure and simple nerfherding.
Sit back and let the hosepipe rest for a bit...
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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why is it you're so adamant in changing the inherent
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I'm not. I said I wasn't. I just asked for ideas. I'm sorry if the idea that someone is interested in the ideas and opinions of the community without trying to push thier own agenda is so alien to you. Even the best ideas can be improved, and I don't agree that "containment is regarded as one of the best inherents in the game". I hear some people say that, but I also see some people saying it's broken. I would think "the best inherents in the game" would be Rage, scrapper criticals, the MM ones, Sourge and new defiance) ,There doesn't seem to be any consensus After all, a Mind/Empathy controller for example, gets little benefit from containment.
Now get off your high horse accussing people of nerfhearding and explain to those War Mace tankers why no power should ever be changed.
I really should do something about this signature.
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After all, a Mind/Empathy controller for example, gets little benefit from containment.
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This is correct.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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I'm not. I said I wasn't. I just asked for ideas. I'm sorry if the idea that someone is interested in the ideas and opinions of the community without trying to push thier own agenda is so alien to you.
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You're funny.
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Even the best ideas can be improved
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And for some reason all of your "improvements" to the AT includes some way of lessening the inherent? Funny that isn't it?
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and I don't agree that "containment is regarded as one of the best inherents in the game". I hear some people say that, but I also see some people saying it's broken.
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Ok. That would be the nerfherders then?
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I would think "the best inherents in the game" would be
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Rage
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I'm guessing you mean Fury? Yes it's one of the better ones.
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scrapper criticals
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Please. Crits are a joke. Too unreliable.
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the MM ones
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MMs get more than 1 now? And Supremacy is pretty weak.
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Sourge
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Good one that.
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and new defiance
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meh...has it's good points. I'd hoped they would've merged it with oldfiance instead of just replacing it.
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a Mind/Empathy controller for example, gets little benefit from containment.
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Benefits just as much as any other controller combo.
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Now get off your high horse accussing people of nerfhearding and explain to those War Mace tankers why no power should ever be changed.
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hehe...you're being funny again aren't you? Where have I said that everything should stay the same? I happen to think this particular inherent doesnt need changing but if we're gonna talk about things to buff we could be here a long time.
Oh...at least my high horse doesnt have it's own hosepipe.
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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And for some reason all of your "improvements" to the AT includes some way of lessening the inherent?
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What improvments are you talking about? Since I havn't actually suggested any you are clearly delusional, so I will just place you on ignore, since everything else you say is clearly based entierly on your delusions.
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Mind/Empathy controller for example, gets little benefit from containment.
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Benefits just as much as any other controller combo.
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Just as further, evidence for your delusions, how can a combo with minimal direct damage powers beneft from a power that doubles damage?
I really should do something about this signature.
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Just as further, evidence for your delusions, how can a combo with minimal direct damage powers beneft from a power that doubles damage?
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Id rather have a little bit doubled, than the original little bit 
Besides mind is not the less dmg primary on trollers precisely
Twice nothing is nothing.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Besides mind is not the less dmg primary on trollers precisely
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Nonono...Mind is gimp apparantly. Buff Mind plz 
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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Besides mind is not the less dmg primary on trollers precisely
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Much of it's damage is based on mass confusion though, which doesn't benefit from containment.
It applies for anyone who chooses to build a controller based around controls though: if you don't take direct damage powers you geing minimal benefit from containment.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It applies for anyone who chooses to build a controller based around controls though: if you don't take direct damage powers you geing minimal benefit from containment.
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The important part has been highlighted. I have found in my experience controllers that build around controls are generally suited to teams where being able to do damage isnt required. Controllers that pick damage tend to be soloers or team very little where the damage boost is very welcome.
It is a choice, that the inherent helps people that choose to make a soloer toon a little bit easier to manage.
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It applies for anyone who chooses to build a controller based around controls though: if you don't take direct damage powers you geing minimal benefit from containment.
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Funny - I have my AoE Immob, AoE Hold, ST Hold and AoE Stun on my Fire/Kin/Fire. Her Control is absolutely fine, aside from Smoke there's not much else there.
I fail to see how "building around control" means you get less damage.
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Besides mind is not the less dmg primary on trollers precisely
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Much of it's damage is based on mass confusion though, which doesn't benefit from containment.
It applies for anyone who chooses to build a controller based around controls though: if you don't take direct damage powers you geing minimal benefit from containment.
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Ever tried Terrify? It's a perfectly decent damage power even without containment... Not to mention that mind is one of the few Controller primaries that gets a direct ST damage power too. Definately no lack of damage in Mind. Mass Confusion doesn't really enter into things when comparing the ability to take advantage of Containment - no other primary's lvl32 power takes advantage of containment for damage either (the closest to an exception being Singularity since it at least sets up contained enemies).
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
I've removed a chain of highly personal posts from this thread (with some collateral damage). If anyone ever feels that they have been personally attacked on these forums, report the post and then ignore it completely. By responding to the post you become part of the problem, and I really don't like needing to chastise someone who, for the most part, did the right thing.
I'm leaving this thread open for the time being, however I will not hesitate to close it if anyone makes it personal again.
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It applies for anyone who chooses to build a controller based around controls though: if you don't take direct damage powers you geing minimal benefit from containment.
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The important part has been highlighted. I have found in my experience controllers that build around controls are generally suited to teams where being able to do damage isnt required. Controllers that pick damage tend to be soloers or team very little where the damage boost is very welcome.
It is a choice, that the inherent helps people that choose to make a soloer toon a little bit easier to manage.
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It's quite true. If I choose to ignore or not slot damage, that is my choice. However, given that the AT is called controller, not damager, why should someone who chooses to focus only in thier primary or seconday function be penalised by having an week inherent? Could Containment be tweeked in such a way as to benefit controllers who don't want to focus on damage, without harming soloability?
Now to make my position clear:
I do not think containment needs to be changed. I do not think is is likely to be change in the near future. However I do not think people should be attacked for asking the question "can we think of something better".
As a further elabaration. I can't think of anything better than the current version, which is why I asked in the firat place.
I really should do something about this signature.
Not all tankers want to herd but they are stuck with gauntlet as there inherent.
Thank you for making your position clear. I think the reason that you may have felt attacked may be down to some of your other posts in other threads, wether they have been taken the "wrong way" by some of the people you feel are attacking you. I think the reason that maybe some people have started to get defensive is that the forum has been populated recently with threads of stop this and stop that. Threads then appear asking for changes to be made that would directly affect how those people play.
To answer the question, if containment was going to be replaced, i would replace it with a modifier that decreased damage for team size, but increased mags of holds. This would work by allowing the soloer to do more damage, but then as people joined the team I would decrease in dishing out damage but be able to hold the bigger mobs for longer etc. Dont know how hard to implement but just a suggestion that would keep most happy.
That the sort of thing you after?
Exactly. I like the idea very much.
I really should do something about this signature.
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So you would like to see a fire controllers primary buffed?
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Yes pls - my roller can't out blast a blaster....