[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With tough and proper slotting you hit the S/L resist cap, while also having quite high defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
I`m actually not sure about that. Its possible im confusing energy with S/L. For instance against Nemisis minions, they could never even scratch me, no matter how many they were. Now, I have to be a bit more crareful. I dont seem to be quite as incvulnerable in a large crowd.
Oh and I did mention that I cant get there without tough.
I never had tough before i5.
But that could be my imagination I suppose.
[/ QUOTE ]
Try a few builds in a hero builder (Mids is a good one).
With Tough it is quite easy to hit the S/L cap for tanks.
Personally I skipped Tough and went the Aid Self/Dull Pain route.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and I did mention that I cant get there without tough.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is true, or at least was before IOs. Im not sure if it has changed since then. Personally my invul tank has never had tough and still doesnt.
[ QUOTE ]
Try a few builds in a hero builder (Mids is a good one).
With Tough it is quite easy to hit the S/L cap for tanks.
Personally I skipped Tough and went the Aid Self/Dull Pain route.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for the advice. I did actually state that you can't reach the cap WITHOUT tough.Which implies I know all about tough. I also mentioned that I have it. In fact in the very quote you list I mention that I didn't have it before I5 and which implies I do have it now.
I've just reread it to see if maybe I wrote in an illegible way but no, it's as clear as day.
I tried the aid self route but that doesnt go too well with energy melee. And it felt kind of out of theme somehow.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
Tankers were one of, if not the slowest levellers. And I actualy play mine very well. This is a nonsense arguament. That they were slow levellers is a fact not an opinion.
[/ QUOTE ]It's everything but fact. By FAR the fastest way to level solo was playing a fire/ or /fire tank, herding and burning hazard/trial zone spawns.
[ QUOTE ]
I was saying we were not unkillable.
[/ QUOTE ] So, it's fine if it takes a 100+ foes to bring you down, as long as it's possible for you to die?
[ QUOTE ]
We`re actually not as strong against S/L as we once were. Certainly not without tough.
[/ QUOTE ][ QUOTE ]
I`m actually not sure about that.
[/ QUOTE ] Yet you keep making statements like these as if they were facts.
Oh, and calling yourself one of the best tanks in the game is pretty arrogant, although considering how you state you can't tank for an 8-man team against rikti, it comes out more as ridiculous.
On the American servers, a "need for fix" basically comes up everyday with so much maths, you wonder, do these people play? These people have been Tanking from word "go" and put down more "yucky" maths down than I could lift with a stick let alone shake one at. The "need" for extra energy resist, would get alot of support. Expectations differ.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for the advice. I did actually state that you can't reach the cap WITHOUT tough.Which implies I know all about tough. I also mentioned that I have it. In fact in the very quote you list I mention that I didn't have it before I5 and which implies I do have it now.
I've just reread it to see if maybe I wrote in an illegible way but no, it's as clear as day.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was going by this statement:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With tough and proper slotting you hit the S/L resist cap, while also having quite high defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
I`m actually not sure about that. Its possible im confusing energy with S/L. For instance against Nemisis minions, they could never even scratch me, no matter how many they were. Now, I have to be a bit more crareful.
[/ QUOTE ]
Edit:
I do have to ask again.. are you going to put forward any evidence that Inv tanks underperform compared to the other tank ATs?
It is what you are going to need if you want any changes made.
[ QUOTE ]
Tankers were one of, if not the slowest levellers. And I actualy play mine very well. This is a nonsense arguament. That they were slow levellers is a fact not an opinion.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's everything but fact. By FAR the fastest way to level solo was playing a fire/ or /fire tank, herding and burning hazard/trial zone spawns.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct about fire/ fire. However, as the title of this thread is invulnerable tanks, and as I have made it clear I am referring to invulnerable Tanks can you forgive me for assuming you must have known that I was referring to invulnerable tanks from the off?
Fire/ fire were far and away the most powerful Tankers. All the other versions fit into the catagory I described. Slow levellers.
[ QUOTE ]
I was saying we were not unkillable. So, it's fine if it takes a 100+ foes to bring you down, as long as it's possible for you to die?
[/ QUOTE ]
100 foes to bring me down? Dont insult me. They wouldn`t have made a dent. However sappers, rikti, malta, etc etc could bring me down the same as anyone else. In fact, as I was the one aggroing the damage, faster.
[ QUOTE ]
We`re actually not as strong against S/L as we once were. Certainly not without tough.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I`m actually not sure about that.
[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]
Yet you keep making statements like these as if they were facts.
[/ QUOTE ]
I apologise. It is a fact I cant get to the cap without tough, (IOs not withstanding.)Clear now?
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and calling yourself one of the best tanks in the game is pretty arrogant, although considering how you state you can't tank for an 8-man team against rikti, it comes out more as ridiculous.
[/ QUOTE ]
ok Maxi. I have never ever mentioned anything about how good I am till that twerp implied I cant tank, just because I brought up this thread.
I won't say how good I am again either.
And do you honestly think I can't stand up against Rikti or anyone else?
You know what, I miss the american forums. No one is as flamy or infantile as here. They just aren't so pedantic. it's mostly adult discussion and they just don't generally try to knock posters from pillar to post the way you do.
And if I could transfer from here to there I just might.
Will you miss me?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
I do have to ask again.. are you going to put forward any evidence that Inv tanks underperform compared to the other tank ATs?
[/ QUOTE ]
In xp/time terms for me it does, I was Inv/ss to start and no way could she make the xp/time that my fire, stone or ice does. Damage auras count for alot imo.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Will you miss me?
[/ QUOTE ]
I personally feel that one person on this thread has had to answer to too many people at once who have suggestive judgement and/or inciteful words put within text along with non constructive stuff from Hammerfall as usual 
I'd hate for these forums to lose anyone to the American Forums cos thats the ultimate low 
I kicked a petless Mastermind and thought I start a troll thread that can have people flamebaiting eachother for months over the moralities of it.
Give me Bridger anyday!
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
I was going by this statement:
With tough and proper slotting you hit the S/L resist cap, while also having quite high defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I`m actually not sure about that. Its possible im confusing energy with S/L. For instance against Nemisis minions, they could never even scratch me, no matter how many they were. Now, I have to be a bit more crareful.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do have to ask again.. are you going to put forward any evidence that Inv tanks underperform compared to the other tank ATs?
It is what you are going to need if you want any changes made.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have no idea how the others perform. I was referring purely to the Invulnerable Tanker.
And how other ATs perform at 100% of their efficency at a far higher rate than we can.
This is because an increasing amount of time we find our selves against energies we SHOULD have resistances to but no longer do.
This means our primary powers are under performing when every other ATs are performing just fine.
This then means, that in a team that faces, for instance, COT, no matter how well we are performing, because we cannot utilise our primary powers fully, (can't take the damage) any other AT in the game can take our spot and, because their primary is working fine, can fill the team space better than we can. BABOOM.
I'm bored of this now.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tankers were one of, if not the slowest levellers. And I actualy play mine very well. This is a nonsense arguament. That they were slow levellers is a fact not an opinion.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's everything but fact. By FAR the fastest way to level solo was playing a fire/ or /fire tank, herding and burning hazard/trial zone spawns.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct about fire/ fire. However, as the title of this thread is invulnerable tanks, and as I have made it clear I am referring to invulnerable Tanks can you forgive me for assuming you must have known that I was referring to invulnerable tanks from the off?
[/ QUOTE ]Is said Fire/ or /Fire, not Fire/Fire. That includes Inv/Fire. Just because not all tank sets were fast solo levelers (And any tank teamed with a blaster was pretty much the fastest leveling duo btw) doesn't mean you can say that tanks were one of the slowest levelers, because they most certainly weren't.
It's like taking a look Earth/ and Ice/ controllers of today and stating that controllers suck at dealing damage.
[ QUOTE ]
And do you honestly think I can't stand up against Rikti or anyone else?
[/ QUOTE ] Since you yourself said:
[ QUOTE ]
Against everything else it simply isn`t. Particularily now, with the psionic damge of the Rikti, which covers the entire of issue 10.
I am not yet fully IOed (with the sets I mean) but currently cannot withstand 8 team damage for long if the damage is anything other than S/L.
So, in those senarios I don`t always taunt.
[/ QUOTE ], I'd have to say yes.
[ QUOTE ]
You know what, I miss the american forums. No one is as flamy or infantile as here. They just aren't so pedantic. it's mostly adult discussion and they just don't generally try to knock posters from pillar to post the way you do.
[/ QUOTE ] Feel free to use the ignore feature if you dislike my posts.
[ QUOTE ]
This then means, that in a team that faces, for instance, COT, no matter how well we are performing, because we cannot utilise our primary powers fully, (can't take the damage) any other AT in the game can take our spot and, because their primary is working fine, can fill the team space better than we can. BABOOM.
[/ QUOTE ]And yet, you seem to be the only tank in this thread who's having problems taking damage.
(Seriously, CoT? They hardly even DO damage!)
[ QUOTE ]
Will you miss me?
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I personally feel that one person on this thread has had to answer to too many people at once who have suggestive judgement and/or inciteful words put within text along with non constructive stuff from Hammerfall as usual
I'd hate for these forums to lose anyone to the American Forums cos thats the ultimate low
[/ QUOTE ]
love you too. 
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
On the american forums they want unyielding debuff removed, in a way this is asking for extra damage mitigation to almost all damage types.
Now a suggestion for extra resistance is a smaller request. How many would rather have 30% resistance to energy than say 27,3 in total? Its a nicer rounder figure and best of all Scrappers and Brutes who when it comes to invulnerability have passives abit more worth taking.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do have to ask again.. are you going to put forward any evidence that Inv tanks underperform compared to the other tank ATs?
[/ QUOTE ]
In xp/time terms for me it does, I was Inv/ss to start and no way could she make the xp/time that my fire, stone or ice does. Damage auras count for alot imo.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking of 'underperforming' in terms of some kind of generalised 'tankability' factor 
But yes, the damage auras are very nice and the damage output of a fire tank is still pretty good.
I do love my fire tank
[ QUOTE ]
(Seriously, CoT? They hardly even DO damage!)
[/ QUOTE ]
You still here?
I confess. I am a lousy Tanker. I don't understand it. It's too hard. All my teams boot me. I keep dying. And I can't save my teammates. And when I see Rikti I get very scared.
Now can you leave me alone?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
On the american forums they want unyielding debuff removed, in a way this is asking for extra damage mitigation to almost all damage types.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see that one changing personally. Or if they do they would more than likely balance it up by reducing Invincibilities defence by 5%.
[ QUOTE ]
Now a suggestion for extra resistance is a smaller request. How many would rather have 30% resistance to energy than say 27,3 in total? Its a nicer rounder figure and best of all Scrappers and Brutes who when it comes to invulnerability have passives abit more worth taking.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having the passives increased by a few percent would be a nice change. Especially for the /INVs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the american forums they want unyielding debuff removed, in a way this is asking for extra damage mitigation to almost all damage types.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see that one changing personally. Or if they do they would more than likely balance it up by reducing Invincibilities defence by 5%.
[/ QUOTE ]And since that's hard to do fairly with inv scaling as it does, it's far more likely that UY will retain the -def.
[ QUOTE ]
Fire tanks have heavier end use and have less defense vs psionics as they have no +HP power
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just write what I think you wrote..
No +HP Power..
Are you yanking my chain - what about healing flames!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fire tanks have heavier end use and have less defense vs psionics as they have no +HP power
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just write what I think you wrote..
No +HP Power..
Are you yanking my chain - what about healing flames!
[/ QUOTE ]
Since when does healing flames add to max HP?
Lionsbane,
unless you actually know how the game system works it is ridiculous to ask for changes (and it seems you are unaware how def works)
unless you are aware how other sets in an AT work then it it is ridiculous to call for a change to one of them
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fire tanks have heavier end use and have less defense vs psionics as they have no +HP power
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just write what I think you wrote..
No +HP Power..
Are you yanking my chain - what about healing flames!
[/ QUOTE ]
Since when does healing flames add to max HP?
[/ QUOTE ]Technically, healing flames is +HP, while dull pain and the like are +HP and +Max HP.
[ QUOTE ]
Lionsbane,
unless you actually know how the game system works it is ridiculous to ask for changes (and it seems you are unaware how def works)
unless you are aware how other sets in an AT work then it it is ridiculous to call for a change to one of them
[/ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with someone questioning, disagreeing with or, at times flaming me.
I have a real problem with people who question my ability to understand the game in general, (that`s to say the overview not necessarily the ATs.)and I have real problem with people who question that I understand Tanking.
I really have come to the conclusion that the general (and therer are several notable exceptions) level of posters here is infantile compared to the USA.
Not because you disagree but because your reasoning is just almost childlike. And to feel the need to insult my intelligence is disingenous to say the least.
There are far far more intelligent people than you(many of whom I was friends with when I played in the USA) who agree that Invul Tanks are under par these days. So I am in pretty distinguished company (as far as CoH goes.)
They all know the solution but they also know the devs won't implement those solutions. So they constantly look for compromises. At the moment the -5% unyeilding is flavour of the month.
If you feel the urge to either attack me personally or my ability to play the game, please desist.
Because that's really low.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
On the american forums they want unyielding debuff removed, in a way this is asking for extra damage mitigation to almost all damage types.
Now a suggestion for extra resistance is a smaller request. How many would rather have 30% resistance to energy than say 27,3 in total? Its a nicer rounder figure and best of all Scrappers and Brutes who when it comes to invulnerability have passives abit more worth taking.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have to agree with removing the -5% defence OR boosting the passives a bit. I find it ridiculous that scrapper and brute resistance passives get the same percentage of resistance as SR defence passives get defence.
Basically, what we are looking at is SR with 35% def (which from mathematical PoV, is the same as 70% damage resistance)
and each of their passives adding 5.63% defence. Invuln resistance passives add 5.63% resistance for scrappers and brutes.
The SR passives are actually more powerful than tanker invuln passives (7.5%) and this is what I find ridiculous...
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
[ QUOTE ]
to be honest you just dont sound very good at tanking.....
edit: no offense
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For the record I've been a Tanker since the day the game started in the USA. I'm one of the best Tankers in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You certainly dont sound like one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah well, I don't write my legend, Hammer. I just live it.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...