My RP story is just about the EXACT same (i started like...maybe 4 months after you) ,and i can grasp your question like this :
Theres no n00by RP (Tools not included) as everyone has diffrent RP styles,so really its a matter of opinion...
When i first popped into RP i was the kind that took it so unseriously i made things up from the top of my head,God-modded and did a LOT of things that i now know arent proper RP,BUT my style is still the same,just more serious.
RP has no n00bs and no veterans in my opinion,just players that have diffrent viewpoints and styles. 
To be a vetran RPer, you need to have played on Virtue...
In all seriousness though, not including a huge 6 month gap between leaving Virtue, and joining Union, i had maybe 3-4 months more experiance than you.
No tabletop experience.
No other MMO experience (i tried, realy).
I do however have a small amount of experience of RPing Forum NPCs for competitions.
i think the move from N00b to vetran isnt that clear. you can be a n00b for a short time, and not be a vetran. Britanic for instance, i wouldnt call a n00b, but he's only been RPing a few months.
Well you could look at it this way;
Noob RPer
John: *goes for a body slam*
Sarah: *Uses super wings to stop attack*
John: *swings for the upper body*
Sarah: *Uses super wings to stop attack*
John: *shoots at Sarah with a gun*
Sarah: *Uses super wings to stop attack*
John: *gives up and walks away*
Veteran
John: *goes for a body slam*
Sarah: *flips backwards*
John: *swings a punch*
Sarah: *retaliates by jumping over John*
etc etc, as in God moding could be taken as being noobish. And other styles may be more advanced.
Interresting question.
I don't like the labels "n00b" and "veteran". I much prefer "good rp:er" and... "not very good rp:er".
I've only played CoX since october last year and only RP:ed since march (when I got mixed up with Britanic/White Vampyr and the Hyperion Watchmen... no wait! I did some forum rp:ing in Britanic's "Riot in the Row" story before that.)
But I've been playing various roleplaying games (tabletop and storytelling) for 25 years!
And what characterises a good roleplayer in my oppinion, is the ability to let his/her character go. To risk its life so to speak.
Inexperienced roleplayers have a tendency to "optimize" the character. To make it über-powerful and without flaws.
An inexperienced storytellers are even worse, since they have more "power" at their disposal. They either make the stories to easy (and therefore boring and without a "drive") or too hard (making the players frustrated and/or with a feeling of being dumb).
In this game, both forum-wise and IC, the "God-modders" are the ones that are "not very good rp:ers".
They are the ones that makes it difficult for everybody else to enjoy the roleplaying.
I've no problems with god-modders. They're easy to deal with.
"[god-modder's character] uses his awesome powers to annihilate [other character]"
"[other character] looks to the sky and wonders where that gust of hot air came from.", /ignore god-modder, carry on as nothing happened.
Not a problem, but ultimately boring.
When does one become a good roleplayer? Don't know.
I know of people that have never RP:d before but are good the first time they try it.
And people that have played for 20 years and that are... not good.
Some people have it and some don't. Most can learn to be good, but then again... some never will grasp the concept of good roleplay.
And to clarify something. Good roleplaying has nothing to do with the "techniques" of RP:ing in CoX.
But it makes the whole experience smoother and easier to follow.
I'd say it depends, really... it's quite subjective. Take me, only a few IRC RP things done before Feb/March 2005, when I joined 'The Society of the Phoenix' RP supergroup, and started attending GG too.
2 and a quater years later, and I'm still about, apart from some breaks. I'd say that qualifies as a veteren CoH EU RP'er. Yet only some of that knowledge can apply to WoW, which I also play. So then you get the split between being (Well, hopefully) a good roleplayer, but being a new RP'er to the setting.
From Newbie to Veteran? I haven't thought of it like that, more on the terms of good/bad RP or different styles. The term n00b I reserve only to those tools who are ignorant and not willing to change their ways as it's the world that is wrong, not them.
After a quick think: I think one could be considered Veteran when he has been roleplaying in more than one community / system. Why? Because only then perceive the differences and similarities of different RP, and what is inheritant to the system, and what is more general way.
But like someone already pointed out, being a veteran and being a good roleplayer aren't the same thing. Some are just good at it the first time they try, some take long time to learn, and some maybe never learn.
Even if the whole good / bad RP is highly relative and mostly applicable as good = close to how I RP, bad = not the way I RP.
Begining to see it now, a so called 'Veteran' could of RP'd for 20 years and still be poor at it. A week old player to RP could be better than the player whos been doing it for 20 years. Or atleast has the potential to be, so really, how long you've been doing it hardly comes into it?
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Begining to see it now, a so called 'Veteran' could of RP'd for 20 years and still be poor at it. A week old player to RP could be better than the player whos been doing it for 20 years. Or atleast has the potential to be, so really, how long you've been doing it hardly comes into it?
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Beeing a "Veteran" doesn't mean that you're good at what you're doing. Only that you've been doing it for some time.
And if you've been doing it for a length of time and still suck at it? Warning!
I'm pretty lenient when I RP in CoX. I've learnt the "tools of the trade" by observing others and will therefore assume (foolishly perhaps) that other newbies will do the same. No-one is a master from the beginning. Especially when RP:ing in an online-game environment is very different from RP:ing a tabletop game.
A sign of a good roleplayer is that as experience accumulates they see what problems there can be, what mistakes there are to be made, and then take measures to prevent mistakes from happening and find ways to avoid clashes.
Experience takes time, and time is what usually defines a veteran.
So, there are good veterans who learn, and bad veterans who refuse to learn. As has already been said, a good beginner can easily trump a bad veteran in quality.
I have been a roleplayer for twenty years and MMORPG'ing for three. A veteran, most likely, how good I'm at it depends on perception. And I figure I definitely have lots to learn still.
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Begining to see it now, a so called 'Veteran' could of RP'd for 20 years and still be poor at it. A week old player to RP could be better than the player whos been doing it for 20 years. Or atleast has the potential to be, so really, how long you've been doing it hardly comes into it?
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Pretty much, IMO, yes. "Veteran" isn't dependant to how good you are at RPing, although by indirect link can give some idea. As in, despite ice cream sales and drowning accidents being both high in the summer, one doesn't cause the other. But having a lable and trying to define that is always a tricky question and never will everyone agree 
. Me, I'm just a roleplayer. Immersive storyteller, if I want some definements.
Generally people tend to become better at roleplaying when they have been doing it for awhile. When they learn the conventions and cliche's of it, and learn to avoid or use them to their advantage. But that's not quite enough to make one really good roleplayer. Roleplaying is a mutual effort, and learning to be a teamplayer is something some people never learn.
Perhaps the difference between newbie and veteran (in CoH mostly) is that when first rolls Alien Lesbian Fairy Catgirl In Short Skirt Who Has Amnesia And Her Family Was Horribly Killed By Rikti he thinks it's brand new, great idea that'll impress everyone. The veteran knows it's been done to death a few times already, and tries to bring some new perspective to it, or just make fun of the cliche.
Out of my characters, Pyranha's background story (in her Bio) says something like "City reecords show that she tells she had amnesia and her family was killed by the Rikti, and her age is 21." I think there was three cliches mixed up in that, the only catch was that it was actually what she had told them, and it was a story to cover up the fact that she was a fifteen year old runaway girl, with two very much alive and worried parents in some little town in Michigan.
But I was a newbie once too, and had my characters of Tragic Past and Butchered Family and all that. 
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But I was a newbie once too, and had my characters of Tragic Past and Butchered Family and all that.
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Heh, we've pretty much ALL done something like that at some point. If you've ever read Miss Ellie's Diary; you know how [censored] her life before Paragon was! 
For me, I think the telling difference between a "newbie" and "veteran" roleplayer, is the ability to consider In Character Actions = In Character Consequences. Too many times have I seen people come up with intersting ideas; and then totaly ignore the consequences of their idea; which kinda makes interacting with them rather dull and boring for everyone else.
Another thing is the ability to get along with other peoples styles as well. I'll gladly admit that's something I've had problems with in the past; and it's caused arguments on more than one occasion; but I try harder now to get it through my thick skull that my way isn't the only way!
IMO though, one of the biggest indicators of a "newbie" roleplayer, is godmodding. It seems to be a concept that's rather difficult for inexperienced RPers to get to grips with.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Aye, everyone's had characters or things happen like that to their characters. I know I've messed up a bit, and still can at times. I'm not infallible, I'm mostly human, just like the rest of you.
And of course, everyone has different styles, and then you get groups of people with similar styles, and so on and so forth. I have some trouble getting along with some styles at times, (Don't worry, not anyone in this thread. ) but I do try to deal with that.
*End rambling.*
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How long you've been doing it hardly comes into it?
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Well... I wouldn't agree with that completely.
Sometimes, time can be one of the biggest factors, I think, but that's because I put most of it down to expierence.
"The more you roleplay X, the better you get at roleplaying X" is how I seem to operate.
To start with, I was perhaps the tooliest, most awesomely rubbish roleplayer at the time. I learned from my mistakes and begun to adapt to what seemed like a 'better' way of roleplaying, i.e not Godmodding and stuff.
I wouldn't go as far as calling myself a veteran (26 months of roleplay in hand in CoH, plus a year or so of forum RP), but I'd like to think I've improved from the first few days.
Despite what FFM says. =P
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Despite what FFM says. =P
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Oh I could say so many things there...
But I won't, promise!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
I think finding a good concept and sticking with it is a sign of a good RP'er. -"My character is an elf who knows kung fu! No wait.. he's a cyborg from the future now! Bah.. being a cyborg is boring, I'm turning him into a vampire lord."
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I think finding a good concept and sticking with it is a sign of a good RP'er. -"My character is an elf who knows kung fu! No wait.. he's a cyborg from the future now! Bah.. being a cyborg is boring, I'm turning him into a vampire lord."
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But say the char underwent major plots that changed it. Ive had this debate over Echo, my main.
She started off as a Vigilante in London, which was backstory, classed as Meta for being 'inhumanly athletic and fit' Ok, she gets revenge on the person who blew her arm off, and learnt what i like to call 'Negative Chi' Thus her Dark/Dark powers. Now into the game 6 month in she turns into a demon, 4 month down the line the demon is supposidly removed from her, which were all pretty major long going plots. Aout another 6 month down the line, she starts getting intrested in how the Mu fight, ends up with another plot in which she aquired a 'Focusing crystal' which is of Mu origin, it gets whacked into her arm for good, and now she can use Energy Melee / Elec. IC wise it did make all perfect sense, but there was admittingly OOC drive behind it. I still like playing the game other than Roleplaying, i liked RP'ing Echo alot, but i started to get extremly tired of the Dark/Dark powerset. So i cooked up this plot, i put in on EVIL's boards every single explanation behind every power she has, all the science behind it and so on.
Now fast forward another about 6 month to today, the demon in her activated from another group members plot, and now shes back to demon.
Thats all happend in 19 months, even though everything makes IC sense, is it wrong to change a char THAT much? I personally enjoy it, but i'm told that it breaks immersion for other players, i disagree, but i'd love to see what others think.
I think Zurra means like someone I knew, who had his character change with no reason or warning depending on what TV show he had watched the previous day or earlier, would kill and ressurect his character without a moments notice, and personality swang wildly for no reason either.
Ah yes, i know. And i agree totally, changing a characters backstory is a no no. I would say once the chars been 'fleshed out' the backstory should be set in stone. But thats my opinion, was just asking about Echos situation. 
And yeah Z ive come across chars like that before too. Its like meeting a diffrent char every day. Not good.
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Begining to see it now, a so called 'Veteran' could of RP'd for 20 years and still be poor at it. A week old player to RP could be better than the player whos been doing it for 20 years. Or atleast has the potential to be, so really, how long you've been doing it hardly comes into it?
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Exactly. RP is mainly about imagination, creativity and social skills. You don't need experience in RP to have any of these. Those who have these attributes usually tend to be decent roleplayers. The rest comes naturally with the familiarity with the world you RP in.
The worst kind of RPer is the previously mentioned god-modder who just wants to cover his low self-esteem by pretending to be the greatest thing alive. His character is usually named after the devil himself or his pendant in some fantasy movie or video game or anything else with godlike powers and/or his backstory says something about being a direct subordinate and agent of said entities. He will never understand that others will not be awed by his mental masturbation.
Other bad RPers lack imagination or are too introverted to actually play their character. Some can be helped, others are hopeless.
And then there are those who pick up RP like they had been doing nothing else in their lives. They act and talk in a believable way for their characters, actually have believable characters and are generally fun to roleplay with.
So, there is no seniority in RP. You can be a newb roleplayer, some may even be n00b roleplayers, but being a 'veteran' is in itself absolutely worthless.
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Thats all happend in 19 months, even though everything makes IC sense, is it wrong to change a char THAT much? I personally enjoy it, but i'm told that it breaks immersion for other players, i disagree, but i'd love to see what others think.
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Keeping a character 'alive' while re-creating the ingame toon with different powers is all fine with me. Actually I really love it when someone puts that much effort in his characters. I did something similar when electric brutes and dark stalkers were introduced. I had to try both and I didn't like the playstyle of two of my dearest toons (RP-wise), so I invented a story how these two (fortunately they are brothers) simultaneously acquired their new powers.
In my opinion it does not break immersion for other players when toons change that much. To the contrary: Imagine how alienated you would be at first if a friend/acquaintance of yours underwent such a drastic change. It would break other players' immersion if you told them that the previous Echo had never existed or something like that, but as it is it's perfectly fine.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Ah yes, i know. And i agree totally, changing a characters backstory is a no no. I would say once the chars been 'fleshed out' the backstory should be set in stone. But thats my opinion, was just asking about Echos situation.
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>.> I've done a few retcons in my time, but those were changes for the better, to make things more concrete, make sense more, or evolve backstory to something better.
I'd give examples, but I have to head to work now!
I think I threw myself in at the deep end, as far as RP is concerned. I started about 3 months ago, with my first RP character being a female demon. I never really felt out of my depth, and her backstory pretty much evolved on the first night.
How does one class oneself as a veteran? Personally, I don't even though I have what I would call a moderate amount of experience. I think like most titles, it should be one ascribed to you by others not necessarily taken by oneself. It's not always about time served (even if that is a traditional view) but about the skills that a person has. As others have said, I've met supposed 'veterans' who made some awful errors and godmodded me about and then there are some people who said they were new to the RP scene who amazed me with some stunning RP. Like all these things, it should be something taken with humility, that there is always something new to learn and that it's never possible to 'know everything'.
Personally I've only RPed in CoX for about a year (although there was always tabletop before that...) but I sometimes get people asking me advice and that always makes me nervous in case I get something wrong! A veteran might not always be someone with a lot of time under their belt but someone with patience, acceptance of others and a willingness to try something new.
And regarding retcons, I'm glad I'm not alone in doing those. Sometimes I love a character but after a while I come to realise that I don't actually like playing the toon in game. Coming up with a storyline to explain the change is always fun.
Peace y'all.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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... When does a 'n00b RP'er' become a 'Veteran' is it dependant on typing style? Character backstory? How you go about Roleplaying? How long you've done it for? I dont know myself, which is why i'm asking the community.
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What does it really matter. As long as both yourself, and the others around you enjoy roleplaying. If they are then you are doing something right.
To me veteran or noob are merely labels. While the veteran may have developed, and figured out all the little tricks, and technical details of roleplaying that doesnt mean thay are necessarily any good at it. For an example you could have mastered the English languge, and grammar but still write a terrible book.
The noob roleplayer may not be up with all the protocols, and conventions of roleplay, but may be blessed with natural talent, fresh thinking, and a wonderful imagination. Of course they could also be a total tool as well, but the same could also be said about some of the veterans.
Another thing to remember is just because somebody doesnt agree with something you have done with a character that doesnt necessarily make it wrong. If you want to make a change thats your decision. at the end of the day the physics of the CoX universe is different to our own, chances are you can find an IC explanation for what you have done.
Hell I did it myself. When I first rolled Britanic he had an eyepatch. Later on I added into his backstory he lost the eye in the Rikti war. After that I got sick of the eyepatch and decided that over time his own amazing powers of regeneration restored his eye. Weak but IC plausable.
Sure some may consider Echo's own story to have outlandish elements, but then entire game is built on this. You wanted to make changes, you made them, and then did the responsible thing and backed them up with IC logic, and story.
Personally Echo you are one of my favorite roleplayers on Union. I remember even before I had any dealings with any of your characters, we were in contact discussing ideas, and opinions. Dont worry too much about labels, styles, and semantics just continue to have fun. If something isn't feeling right at the moment try something else. You play the game for your own enjoyment, helping others enjoy it is a bonus. I dont care if you are a RP noob, or vet, I just like roleplaying with you.
(Hope thats restored some fuzzy feelings for you. If not I may have to resort to some outlandish stunt! )
In my view, "veterans" are the people who are more likely to spot if they are headed towards a 'mistake' and avoid it, or can help someone avoid such a 'mistake'. "Newb" rpers are the ones that are just what 'newb' means. New. And like people have said in the other posts here, they can either be spectacular in that they automatically understand what not to do, or they might need some redirecting.
I also think that the more 'vetern' rpers are more likely to allow something very bad to happen to thier character, while a 'newbie' is more likely to try and think of work arounds (Which I have been more than guilty of numerous times.)
Now, CoX is my first try at RPing so I'm still a 'newb' in my eyes, seeing as I am still learning some of the ropes even after having over 1 year of practice. I still make mistakes but I like to think I dont make as bad ones, or make them as often.
For the changing of characters IC, for my very first RP toon (Solar) his original backstory was that he's a sun denzien and as such is made from fire etc. Now, first of all I made it out like he was quite powerful and that he couldnt actually let any 'skin' show as he would 'be as bright as the sun'. Over time, I forgot this detail and ended up making a costume with some skin showing. So that part got mysteriously erased from his backstory (thankfully most people didnt notice, or just accepted it ). I then started to leave out how powerfull he was, and I think that also got forgotten by me eventually, mainly as I didnt rp him in missions etc and as such didnt get to really use that aspect of his story. In the end just about the only things that remained from his original story was that he comes from the sun and is made from fire, just not on the same scale as I originally made out
After he got boring (I really dont know how Red can stand there all nights just reading the paper...) I created another character, and used my experiance from him to make sure I kept to the same story. I've made some stupid mistakes looking back on it, but I like to think they werent as bad as my frist ones.
And now to stop rambling as I've lost the thread of this post like so many others...
Ok, ive got a question for the Roleplay community.
And from my point of view i feel ive grasped every aspect of Roleplay, nearly 2 years down the line, but some other peoples point of view feel i haven't.
Ive been playing this game since City of Villians launch, about 19 months ago round it off to two years. I had no previous experience in Roleplay at all, infact i often frowned upon it seems i was pretty much a 'PvP'er' in other games, SWG, WoW few others, i respected the diffrent communities in MMO worlds though. I met someone in CoV, they taught me the ropes and i thought it was really fun, no character backstory etc, just plain Roleplay, i ended up joining EVIL you all know and love.
My question though...
... When does a 'n00b RP'er' become a 'Veteran' is it dependant on typing style? Character backstory? How you go about Roleplaying? How long you've done it for? I dont know myself, which is why i'm asking the community.