The Liberation Front - Anarchist Super Team

I think there's a fair amount of difference between the TLF and the LF. From what i see, the LF is merely against government, where as the TLF is against... everyone, basically. I'm not sure if Hates shares XV's attitude to the anarchy thing, but XV is very much for "Burn it to the ground and rebuild on what's left", which i think is what Hates is on about in his "Land reclamation" speech. The LF are probably a lot more moderate, looking for reform rather than hostile takeover.

Again, just how i see it

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((I doubt that Superman exist as a comic in CoX (because of the trademark laws) and personally I doubt that there's even comicbooks about superheroes since they figure frequently in the news and tabloids (much as our celebrities. I mean... how cool would it be to subscribe to the comics "Steven Gerrard" or "Keanu Reeves" for example.)

The comicbook The Watchmen show this pretty neat I think. In there, supers are present so the comics (or at least the comic that's part of the story) are about pirates.


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((I know... Watchmen is kinda awesome, yeah. However, other comic books about "supers" have had superhero comicbooks in them, so I see no real reason why not... It's like saying there should be no comic books about GI joe in the real world, because there are actual soldiers and ninjas etc... =) ))

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Now I'm not trying to "god-mod" you into anything. If you think that a Superman comic is needed in your playing experience, then by all means! I wont stop you!


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((Not needed, but helpful. Or at least some kind of fictional archetypal hero - if there are "Statesman" comicbooks in the CoX world, they would do almost as nicely. The point A-bom is trying to make is that things aren't nearly as "neat" in the "real world" as they are in the mindsets of people like Statesman etc. It's an ugly world, that sort of thing. It's still possible to have both the "four-color" black-and-white superheroics in the same world - I mean, Marvel has room for both gritty stuff like Wolverine or Punisher (blood, gore, and sometimes political incorrectness) and four-color heroics of people like the Avengers. Same world, seen through the eyes of different people.

if all "real-world" references are removed - well, then it becomes almost impossible to actually discuss stuff in-game. Seen the latest Bruce Willis? Sorry, no Bruce Willis in CoX. Do you like President Bush? Sorry, no such animal. The game becomes, empty, flat, two-dimensional - as all forms of actual communication or discussion becomes impossible. Conversations descend into platitudes and politically correct "weathertalk". I find a world where one can at least make references to pop culture - and history - much more satisfying...))

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But if you interact with my characters and bring up said hero, they wouldn't know who you talked about.))

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((Probably wouldn't. A-boms rants in-game seldom mentuion superheroes by name, but might refer to them as "silly people running around fighting two-dimensional villains in trashy comic books" or something similar...

Until canon in the matter is resolved - not the "superman" issue but the "comic books in CoX" issue - I'm going to assume they exist. I see no indication that they don't. Watchmen may be a great comic, but it's grittier, nastier, and darker than CoH and the explicit lack of superhero comic books is a part of that "realism".))

//Krank, writing enormous posts

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I think there's a fair amount of difference between the TLF and the LF. From what i see, the LF is merely against government, where as the TLF is against... everyone, basically.

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((Correct. But the LF is not only against "government", but rather it adopts the anarchist ethic that hierarchal systems are harmful in themselves - "communication is only possible between equals", to quote from my favourite novel, the Illuminatus! trilogy.

And yes, this creates kind of a problem since every supergroups *has* to have a leader, but on the other hand - there are no problems with temporary, informal leaders who rules simply for as long as others agree to follow him, from their own free will, without coercion. ANd leadership can be rotated, I think.))

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The LF are probably a lot more moderate, looking for reform rather than hostile takeover.

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((Not all of us - however, as the LF keeps a pretty small "common ground" in order to open up for as many brands of anarchists as possible, it's certainly possible that some (or many) of our members have different agendas.

A-bom, for instance, wants to do away with all leaders - he's just beginning with the most corrupt ones, working his way up. The bigger problems first, so to speak.))

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if all "real-world" references are removed - well, then it becomes almost impossible to actually discuss stuff in-game. Seen the latest Bruce Willis? Sorry, no Bruce Willis in CoX. Do you like President Bush? Sorry, no such animal. The game becomes, empty, flat, two-dimensional - as all forms of actual communication or discussion becomes impossible. Conversations descend into platitudes and politically correct "weathertalk". I find a world where one can at least make references to pop culture - and history - much more satisfying...))

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Ah the thing is...this world has it's own references. Yes you can slip in movie references those are fine. The game has a history all unto it's own completely seperate from 'our' world. There's an official timeline somewhere on the main site (would post a linky but not sure where to find it) which fills in a lot of story. Everything pre-1900's is pretty much the same though. Check out Paragon Wiki for background details to quite a few of the enemy groups (Paragon Wiki>table of contents>enemies and then choose a group).

Warning: What follows is a personal view, please do not take it as criticism or having a go at you personally.

You have to understand this world isn't ours but with superheroes and supervillains, it's a completely different dimension if you will with it's own timeline, brands etc. (for example heroes often use up-and-away Cola or my villain does his weekly shopping at Big Al's supermart both of which exist ingame).

There is superhero merchandise however, it's been made note that there are action figures of the surviving 8 and others, dvd's such as 'greatest battles of the statesman' i can assume would exist, Halloween costume parts of Statesman, Lord Recluse, Back Alley Brawler and even a Hamidon costume are all ingame. I can easily imagine there's a Hero Corp cartoon on TV as well.

So comic books would exist but they'd be more a stylised retelling of heroes greatest battles or 'further adventures' where the writer has been given permission to do fictional stories based on the popular heroes.

Superman = Statesman ingame, he can fly, has super strength, is pretty much invulnerable to all but the heaviest of super villain attacks (it takes 8 very powerful supervillains to bring him down, that's pretty hardcore) basically he has all the abilities of superman just he isn't copyrighted to a source outside cryptic, he's very much a four colour hero as are most of the surviving 8.

so in short.
Movies and actors: Fine, reference away, after all a 'normal man' defeating hundreds of bad guys would be uplifting to the masses or a black and white movie about a crazed scientist resurrecting the dead is also good.
politics: it's pretty iffy, i don't think Bush is President in CoX world.
Comics or our world: very iffy, most of them don't exist due to that it would break copyright laws (and Cryptic already suffered enough of that with the Marvel lawsuit) but using characters already in the game as comic book characters i imagine nobody would argue with you that there wasn't a Freedom Phalanx or Hero Corp comic book.

It's hard to judge what is and what isn't going over the boundry of what would be in the game. Do what you feel like what i've said above is just a personal view on things, others will have vastly differing views, that's the beauty of life.

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Ah the thing is...this world has it's own references. Yes you can slip in movie references those are fine. The game has a history all unto it's own completely seperate from 'our' world. There's an official timeline somewhere on the main site (would post a linky but not sure where to find it) which fills in a lot of story. Everything pre-1900's is pretty much the same though. Check out Paragon Wiki for background details to quite a few of the enemy groups (Paragon Wiki>table of contents>enemies and then choose a group).

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I've looked at them, and at a bunch of other stuff as well. The thing is, most of the stuff I've managed to dig up is directly supervillain/hero- related. What I'd need is other stuff - like I said, movies, music, politics, that sort of thing. Or are superheroes always politically correct in this world? Is there no room for political dissent, for radical thought, for non-conformist views?

Is EVERYTHING in this world superhero-related?

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Warning: What follows is a personal view, please do not take it as criticism or having a go at you personally.


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As a person who often try to question the status quo and the time-tested truths, I'm kind of an expert at not taking critizism personally =)

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You have to understand this world isn't ours but with superheroes and supervillains, it's a completely different dimension if you will with it's own timeline, brands etc. (for example heroes often use up-and-away Cola or my villain does his weekly shopping at Big Al's supermart both of which exist ingame).


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Agreed. But did you know Big Al's use sweat-shops, or that Cola actually put addictive substances in their soft drinks?

Corporativism kind of creates these kinds of dark situations. I'd have a very hard time swallowing a world in which capitalism is completely unproblematic.

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There is superhero merchandise however, it's been made note that there are action figures of the surviving 8 and others, dvd's such as 'greatest battles of the statesman' i can assume would exist, Halloween costume parts of Statesman, Lord Recluse, Back Alley Brawler and even a Hamidon costume are all ingame. I can easily imagine there's a Hero Corp cartoon on TV as well.

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Great. I'll change the Superman reference right away (though I still like the original title's eyecatchiness)...

(and there's a new blogrant there now as well - see if you can spot any "wrong" references I might've missed. We still got a Gill Scott-Heron, right?)

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politics: it's pretty iffy, i don't think Bush is President in CoX world.

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OK, so no mention of Bush by name. Do we have a president? Are there still CIA? Do the US still intervene in the affairs of others? Is there still a "Guantanamo Bay"?

Or is it completely impossible to actually have a conversation, in-game, about politics? Is it impossible to have a politically active superhero?

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It's hard to judge what is and what isn't going over the boundry of what would be in the game. Do what you feel like what i've said above is just a personal view on things, others will have vastly differing views, that's the beauty of life.

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Yup. The problem becomes interaction. I can believe the world is flat, but as soon as I'm gonna discuss geography with someone who doesn't, there will be friction.


My goal here is to have a superhero (or team) that has a more "dark" view of things (society and its politics and structure). Given that the Avengers and Punisher can exist in the same universe, why can't the Freedom Phalanx and A-bomination?

All the major intelligence and government agencies are there. CIA, FBI etc. and i'd assume they're still doing the covert operations and the like, just using superheroes for their 'black ops' instead of soldiers.

While there isn't a Guantanamo Bay but the is the Ziggursky Prison which is a prison for those who have super-powers, i've seen the inside of it, it's dark, dank and reminded me of the prison colony planet from Alien 3. Though admittedly at the time i was escaping from said prison IC wise anyway i imagine the rest of it is a lot more secure than that 1 section you see in the villain side tutorial. The place still looks pretty inhumane for a prison though even if it is holding the world biggest 'potential evils'.

Well there's one man incharge Isles side and that's Lord Recluse...so that's a lot easier to figure out.

However Paragon side i'm not sure who is president of the USA, though i'm sure someone can drag it up and link it for us. Every time the president is mentioned ingame it's just as that 'The President' i believe.

As for Big Al's using sweatshops, my villain would say that was a good thing, it keeps the prices down after all. Also Big Al's only exist villain side...so you'd find they're probably using WORSE tactics than just sweatshops, there's something for your group to aim at.

As for a politically charge SG, i don't see anything wrong with it. Often you mind most RP SG's are a real mish-mash of people with various beliefs, life-style choices and a common goal, to stamp out crime with as bigger and heftier boot as possible. Villain side most aren't organised behind a common goal of 'ruling the world' as most hero side seem to believe.

EVIL is a bunch of mercenaries for hire out to the highest bidder and as such is quite a large mix of personalities and expertises. The TLF is out to cause the chaos and destruction through which mankind will struggle and thus become stronger though it means levelling pretty much any form of establishment. The Court of the Blood countess is a gathering of those of a gothic nature. The New mafia is organised crime syndicate.

The thing is there is also one major enemy group who would be the target of anarchist heroes...Crey, they are the corporation that does inhuman genetic experiments, blows up competitors, gives government backhanders, secretly funds gangs so the need for the Crey Protectors in certain areas comes in and thus they can up their fee.

They're quite evil...

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All the major intelligence and government agencies are there. CIA, FBI etc. and i'd assume they're still doing the covert operations and the like, just using superheroes for their 'black ops' instead of soldiers.

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Nice! Whole bunch of plot ideas popping into my head...

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While there isn't a Guantanamo Bay but the is the Ziggursky Prison which is a prison for those who have super-powers, i've seen the inside of it, it's dark, dank and reminded me of the prison colony planet from Alien 3. Though admittedly at the time i was escaping from said prison IC wise anyway i imagine the rest of it is a lot more secure than that 1 section you see in the villain side tutorial. The place still looks pretty inhumane for a prison though even if it is holding the world biggest 'potential evils'.

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And are there really only "supervillains" there? I've heard of at least forty people who hadn't done a thing, a few of them don't even have superpowers...

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However Paragon side i'm not sure who is president of the USA, though i'm sure someone can drag it up and link it for us. Every time the president is mentioned ingame it's just as that 'The President' i believe.

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Well, I guess "The President" it is. Could I still refer to him as "commander-in-thief" and similar? I mean, there were a lot of question marks regarding his campaign, but they've hushed most of it up...


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so you'd find they're probably using WORSE tactics than just sweatshops, there's something for your group to aim at.

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Worse than sweatshops... Heh, I can just feel the plots falling into place =)



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The thing is there is also one major enemy group who would be the target of anarchist heroes...Crey, they are the corporation that does inhuman genetic experiments, blows up competitors, gives government backhanders, secretly funds gangs so the need for the Crey Protectors in certain areas comes in and thus they can up their fee.

They're quite evil...

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Agreed. They're next on my hit list, once the Council has been stomped out good...

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Is there still a "Guantanamo Bay"?

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i'd say there most definatly is a 'guantanamo bay', but i doubt it contains a bunch of terrorist suspects.

Theres a major difference in the recent timeline and what i see in game that suggests this.

1: the rikti war. America was in no fit state to go into 'police actions' against the taliban.

2: bush may not be the president. no bush administration, means no war on terror.

3: ive yet to hear anyone mention the war in iraq IC. so im assuming the above 2 must mean that there was no war, or that it was on a much lower scale than we had in the RL

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Or is it completely impossible to actually have a conversation, in-game, about politics? Is it impossible to have a politically active superhero?

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theres communists left right and center :P

and another good example of this is the alliance between the TLF and EVIL.
There was a discussion between Hatesman and Lunk about politics, when they talked about working together.
Both have strong, and generaly apposing political alliegences.

so yes, its more than possible


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My goal here is to have a superhero (or team) that has a more "dark" view of things (society and its politics and structure). Given that the Avengers and Punisher can exist in the same universe, why can't the Freedom Phalanx and A-bomination?

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well, if your looking for a nemesis, I'm your man.
My main, Lunk, is an industrialist, a slum lord (although he bought the property with the intention of renovations) he runs an organisation that "preys on suffering for profit" (or offers hope to those with no other choices, and the right money... depends on your viewpoint), he works through legal loopholes and institutional corruption, he has a history in the millitary and has strong nationalist EU views, and is an authoritarian.

And i'll be happy to lay the smack down on some anarchists

The other major problem was the fact the Ritiki war screwed a whole lot of stuff up and technically world is still in the rebuilding phase. Perhaps the president is still using his 'emergency powers' to stay in office, we don't know, the devs don't give us a whole lot of non-super power related background as you said, it's all very much about the heroics/villainy.

Unfortunately for CoH the world is very much black and white when taken at the value the Devs give it, 'you're a hero, you do good things, people love you'. This problem is shared with CoV where everything is very much the dark side of things and it doesn't give a lot of room for misunderstood heroes who fell on the wrong side of the law, it's very much a 'you're bad, you do bad things, people fear you' the devs really don't like the option for ambiguity in either side of the game to occur naturally, it is we, the RPer, that force this ambiguity into the game.

It's odd you simply just don't get punisher style heroes in CoH if you take it at face value, you don't kill, you arrest/defeat (i mean defeat...come on, i'm a villain for heavens sake...of course i've mercilessly butchered the underlings. I defeat Heroes, I kill minions...atleast that's how i see it).

So go ambiguity and heroes and villains which tred the line, go...be free...

It would help a lot more if they introduced the 'going rogue/reformed' option where you could switch sides but as i've said the devs don't like ambiguity and also it was too hard to balance...(i.e. they cba).

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The other major problem was the fact the Ritiki war screwed a whole lot of stuff up and technically world is still in the rebuilding phase. Perhaps the president is still using his 'emergency powers' to stay in office, we don't know, the devs don't give us a whole lot of non-super power related background as you said, it's all very much about the heroics/villainy.

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That might be the official story... What they WANT you to believe =)

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Unfortunately for CoH the world is very much black and white when taken at the value the Devs give it


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Well, "face value" can still just be the "official story"... The way I see it, there are lots of holes to exploit.

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, 'you're a hero, you do good things, people love you'. This problem is shared with CoV where everything is very much the dark side of things and it doesn't give a lot of room for misunderstood heroes who fell on the wrong side of the law, it's very much a 'you're bad, you do bad things, people fear you' the devs really don't like the option for ambiguity in either side of the game to occur naturally, it is we, the RPer, that force this ambiguity into the game.

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Yup. And I got no probs whatsoever with doing so =)

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It's odd you simply just don't get punisher style heroes in CoH if you take it at face value, you don't kill, you arrest/defeat (i mean defeat...come on, i'm a villain for heavens sake...of course i've mercilessly butchered the underlings. I defeat Heroes, I kill minions...atleast that's how i see it).

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Uhm... Well. The police might call it "defeat" or "capture", but... Well, let's just say I doubt it. When a villain is brought in with five feet long bone spikes sticking out through their torsos, I call that "dead, or almost dead". They might get some info from them before they pass away, but hey...

Spines, as a power, doesn't really lend itself well to the whole "capture" thing. Which is the way I like it... No matter how you look at it, half a dozen sokes through the abdomen is generally enough to incapacitate someone pretty much permanently...

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It would help a lot more if they introduced the 'going rogue/reformed' option where you could switch sides but as i've said the devs don't like ambiguity and also it was too hard to balance...(i.e. they cba).

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Well, I've no problem with the current set-up. I just see it as an "official image", the one presented by the government etc. Below the surface of the black-and-white are, as always, not only shades of grey - but lilac, rad, blue and green as well...

aye tell me about it.

Spines, Broadsword, Katana, Mace and Battle axe all really don't lend themselves well to the whole 'arrest' thing.

"Here you go...here's the bad guy..."

"erm...son...he's got no legs..."

"it was to stop him running away...but i arrested him i did..."

Krank. Almost everyone in Paragon and the Isles would have been around during the Rikti war. And a very large number of them probly fought in it, so remember that before saying: "Thats what they want you to believe!"


And yeah I've noticed how few classic supervillains are out there. Thats why I liked one of my old characters Professor Terror. He was a classic mad scientist villain who lived to rule the world.

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Krank. Almost everyone in Paragon and the Isles would have been around during the Rikti war. And a very large number of them probly fought in it, so remember that before saying: "Thats what they want you to believe!"

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((I'm not tryint to claim the Rikti didn't exist. I'm just suggesting they were created by the government, using secret technology, and then unleashed upon the earth in an effort to take people's minds off internal US politics... or something. Sure, they came - sure they slaugfhtered - but *why* they did so and where they *really* come from is anyone's guess - and A-bom has at least a dozen "guesses"...

And personally, I kind of hate "classic" supervillains and heroes. A-bom too. They're flat, two-dimensional, boring. I guess you could say I'm more of a Morrison/Moore/Millar fan... ))

well actually if you have Omega clearance you know all about the Rikti, where they came from, what they are and like.

But you need Zeta clearance to know about Omega clearance (or look it up on Paragon Wiki...once you start fighting the Rikti...look back to the Lost...soon you're eyes will be opened).

I have said too much already...WATCH THE SKIES...

<disappears>

Goiung by both Marvel and DC standards I'd say that despite costumed super humans running around there would still be comic books, and by the examples of DC and Marvel not just of existing heroes.

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You're making a second TLF? Why not co-lead the first TLF? Kinda pointless having two of the same thing.

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I dare say you're more than welcome to become an Arch-Villain in the TLF if you have any Super-Villains. As for there being 2 groups a problem, well, one is Genuinely Heroic, trying to beat the system to free us all. What I believe in real life. The second, the TLF, is a warped version of my political views to better unite super-villains to a cause. Because after all, most super-villains live to rule the world, destroy and kill heroes.

TLF Anarchy is exactly as XV said, it's more of a policy that an infinitely angry man conceived to quickly sever the monsters head, totally annihilate it's body and then take its throne. Burn everything to the ground, restart society with the "enlightened", if anyone gets in the way, ANYONE. There's not enough time to deal with it, so they just have to be dealt with on the spot.

I'm just trying now to invent a Hero with whom I can join the LF and actually want and be able to play.

I'm really liking your website by the way, A-bom, it makes me weep when I see my own. terraliberationfront.webeden.co.uk (Not finished, too much to do... as usual.... >_&gt

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I'm just trying now to invent a Hero with whom I can join the LF and actually want and be able to play.

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Saying that... GhostSpy would be a member of the LF if I hadn't joined him up to the Militia, as I'm sure, would The Portent from Militia. Perhaps we could moonlight in the LF? Secret card carrying members?

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All the major intelligence and government agencies are there. CIA, FBI etc. and i'd assume they're still doing the covert operations and the like, just using superheroes for their 'black ops' instead of soldiers.

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they can't conscript them if that,s what you mean, they would have to be recruited like anyone else.

you need to read the Right to Might act history plaques and the back story of the Malta to get a better handle on the covert ops world of CoH.

Also, reading your site, it's good stuff, but how much of the back info have you read? while it may be annoying and spolierish, i would recommend looking up the blurb on all the history plaques for in game.

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I'm just trying now to invent a Hero with whom I can join the LF and actually want and be able to play.

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Nice!

Feeling kind of lonely right now =)

Working on the base - we recently (like today) got a working teleporter (yay for me) but not much else... =)

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I'm really liking your website by the way, A-bom, it makes me weep when I see my own. terraliberationfront.webeden.co.uk (Not finished, too much to do... as usual.... >_&gt

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Actually, I kind of like yours as well...

LF's site will get more stuff soon as well... Such as a "members" section... redesigned the page header today, I kind of like the darker tone =)

I'll add a link from LF to TLF's site, if it's OK...

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they can't conscript them if that,s what you mean, they would have to be recruited like anyone else.

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As far as we know... =)

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you need to read the Right to Might act history plaques and the back story of the Malta to get a better handle on the covert ops world of CoH.


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Well, the REAL black-black ops wouldn't have their history on any plaque, now would they? =)


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Also, reading your site, it's good stuff, but how much of the back info have you read? while it may be annoying and spolierish, i would recommend looking up the blurb on all the history plaques for in game.

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I've read most of it, but feel free to point out any "errors" I might've let slip...

well, nothing about the Malta is from Plaques, it's all from the late game story arch's.

the drugs stuff, "Why hasn't Statesman exposed the CIA drug rings in Central and South America?" well, because they no longer exist, in this world Back ally brawler and the regulators took the fight to the drug barons in South America. and took them down, the drugs have changed and moved on, "superdyne" is the biggest problem now, they aren't sure how or were it's produced, but i'm sure you've encountered the trolls, they are the result of over use of the drug.

as for guantanamo bay, o doubt it exists in this world as if your a super powered menaces you end up buried and cryogenicly frozen under boomtown, like richisman, by Statesman.

this world is both more extreme, and better off. the government has to meny obvious treats to bother making any up and have to reassure people as much a possible that things are getting better as if they were any worse people would be dead.i think this world had, with the first rikti invasion, what Adrian Vedit figured out in Watchman, that they need something to unite against, and they didn't even need to fake it.

So while political discussion is good and interesting, i don't think we can apply to much of what happens here to the CoH world, who need the great Satan of America when you have daemon'a literally appearing right out of the air?

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the drugs stuff, "Why hasn't Statesman exposed the CIA drug rings in Central and South America?" well, because they no longer exist, in this world Back ally brawler and the regulators took the fight to the drug barons in South America. and took them down, the drugs have changed and moved on, "superdyne" is the biggest problem now, they aren't sure how or were it's produced, but i'm sure you've encountered the trolls, they are the result of over use of the drug.

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Well, that's as far as you know... The drug barons aren't the only drug operations in south america, y'know... And I find it kind of hard to believe that everyone has switched to Superdyne. After all, different people want different things - some want uppers, some want downers, some want angeldust, some want psychedelics. And I strongly suspect that Superdyne can't be all of the above - that'd be a serious stretch of the imagination on my part...

And also I kind of suspect that it takes more than fighting a couple of drug barons to take down the whole shebang. I mean, superheroes are one thing but... A War on Drugs actually working? Now that's fiction...


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as for guantanamo bay, o doubt it exists in this world as if your a super powered menaces you end up buried and cryogenicly frozen under boomtown, like richisman, by Statesman.

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...so you're trying to say that there are no "mundanes" that are [censored] off by the US of A's actions, culture, or all of the above? No moslem dissenters, no revolutionaries, no enemies of the state that aren't superpowered? All criminals, terrorists etc are superpowered? No small, frustrated nations who don't have superheroes, who're angry at America for stepping in and meddling in what they see as their private affairs? Again, I find that kind of hard to believe.

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this world is both more extreme, and better off.

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Depends on your point of view, doesn't it? More patriotic, nationalistic [censored] flying around, for one thing.

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the government has to many obvious threats to bother making any up

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How do you know those "obvious threats" aren't created by the government? A scared people is an obedient people, and enemies are a great way to make people ignore the real issues...

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and have to reassure people as much a possible that things are getting better as if they were any worse people would be dead.i think this world had, with the first rikti invasion, what Adrian Vedit figured out in Watchman, that they need something to unite against, and they didn't even need to fake it.

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On the other hand, the Rikti want away, didn't they? (for the most part, and not including issue 10). Threat gone, now let's see how we can use this to our advantage...



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So while political discussion is good and interesting, i don't think we can apply to much of what happens here to the CoH world, who need the great Satan of America when you have daemon'a literally appearing right out of the air?

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Well, why can't you have both?



To tell the truth, I find a world without political dissent both dull, uninspiring and unbelievable. I can swallow people getting superpowered (and subsequently deciding to play dress-up and show off their personal fetishes), but I won't be able to swallow World Peace, a Nice Government of America (or any other country), Good Patriotism/Nationalism or a Good World Except for Supervillains. It's just a bit too... incredible for my tastes. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth.


All in all, I thank you for your input - but most of it seems based not in canon, but in your perception of it. The canon doesn't say there aren't non-superpowered terrorists blowing things up. It doesn't say there is no Guantanamo Bay. It doesn't say there are no secret CIA-controled drug-rings. Most of it is presented through in-game resources (such as plaques etc), and the thing about in-game resources is that they can be doubted. Everyone has an agenda.

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So while political discussion is good and interesting, i don't think we can apply to much of what happens here to the CoH world, who need the great Satan of America when you have daemon'a literally appearing right out of the air?

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((This. This hard.
Comon foe and all that [censored].



I dont know why, but i actualy took time to read one of the blog entries on the site (once i got past the constant swearing and the qoute by renowned satanist and whackjob, alister crowly, in the corner)
It quite literaly made me shudder.
I honestly hope there isnt too many of your own OOC beliefs mixed in with all that, because it is honestly deeply disturbing.

I dislike american politics as much as the next person. I was brought up a Socialist, spent most of my life around hippies, and left wing Che' Gauvara wannabes. And in general, i've come to realise that the more someone shouts "revelution" the less he knows how society works (although i suppose thats the point of anarchism, being the "stripping down" of society).

Yes, America is corrupt, so are all governments, its how humanity works. We're greedy. Give someone a little taste of power and the cling to it with their life.
But, you remove the government, the millitary, and the police force, and it leaves the weak and the powerless, that you try to champion, open to be abused even further.

If every western government was to turn around, and dispand, what would happen? No protection from crime (oh, no wait, forget that, with no administration, there is no crime. theres no law to define it) No more support for the sick and jobless. And our borders (which no longer exist) are open to the next greedy, corrupt [censored] with a half organised millitary to walk all over us and start the problem all over again, possibly make it worse.

Yes, government is corrupt, but its the lesser evil than humanity as a whole.
The government AS IT IS needs to be taken down and remolded, not the concept of government as a whole.


anyway, end of rant, this isnt the place to discuss politics. hopefully i havent offended too much.

Hey, come on now.
There are no drug-barons left okay.
No drugs at all but the superadine.

How do I know?

Because Back Alley Brawler say so!
Would you call him a lier?

His pal Blue Steel and the rest of the Regulators can vouch for it! They were there as well.



So you see... It must be true!

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I dont know why, but i actualy took time to read one of the blog entries on the site (once i got past the constant swearing and the qoute by renowned satanist and whackjob, alister crowly, in the corner)
It quite literaly made me shudder.
I honestly hope there isnt too many of your own OOC beliefs mixed in with all that, because it is honestly deeply disturbing.


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((Well... I really am an anarchist, but let's just say I'm to A-bom what Punisher is to a regular person. I'm a total pacifist, for one thing. Wouldn't hurt a fly. I don't believe in revolution. But I do believe we need to slowly move toward a society where governments aren't needed. I'm an occultist, but I don't subscribe to everything Crowley said (though he did have a lot of interresting things to say - and I don't have any grudge against satanists, really. Some of my best mates are satanists). More of a Peter J. Carroll kind of guy. And I curse less.))


((BTW, if A-bom makes people shudder... Then I'm doing a good job. He's supposed to be one of those heroes most wouldn't even call heroes))

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I dislike american politics as much as the next person. I was brought up a Socialist, spent most of my life around hippies, and left wing Che' Gauvara wannabes. And in general, i've come to realise that the more someone shouts "revelution" the less he knows how society works (although i suppose thats the point of anarchism, being the "stripping down" of society).

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((Society, as we know it, is essentially corrupt to the core. I simply hold the more-than-slightly idealistic view that it could be different. I guess I'm simply a hippie, dropped out of a time-warp - a few decades too late.))

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Yes, America is corrupt, so are all governments

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((Agreed. That's how nationalism works.))

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its how humanity works. We're greedy. Give someone a little taste of power and the cling to it with their life.

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((Not all of us. Which kind of suggests that things could be different. Me, for instance, I almost completely lack a power-drive. I don't want to have power over anyone. I'm going to be a teacher, and I agomize about the power I'll have over the students...))

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But, you remove the government, the millitary, and the police force, and it leaves the weak and the powerless, that you try to champion, open to be abused even further.

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((If you do it now, sure. But things can change. Things now are pretty different from, say a hundred years ago. We are constantly moving towards a society with more sharing of information, more awareness, more equalness. As weird as that mught sound, I believe things are better now than they've ever been))

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No protection from crime (oh, no wait, forget that, with no administration, there is no crime. theres no law to define it)

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((Crime is an effect of social differences and upbringing. If we want a world with less crime, we need to create a different world. It'll take time, I give ya that - what we can do today is try to influence the people around us, try to make people more aware of their own values and the constructedness of opinions, ideas and values))

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And our borders (which no longer exist)

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((Borders, like countries, are fiction anyway))

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Yes, government is corrupt, but its the lesser evil than humanity as a whole.

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For now, perhaps.

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The government AS IT IS needs to be taken down and remolded, not the concept of government as a whole.

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((I disagree. Government implies unequality, and as long as there's unqequality there'll be injustice. Communication is only possible between equals. One cannot build any kind of just society on a basis of having some in power and some not. Democracy, while a fine idea, has yet to be realized anywhere. Switzerland comes closest, with their direct democracy, but even they are far from real democracy.))

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anyway, end of rant, this isnt the place to discuss politics. hopefully i havent offended too much.

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((Quite the opposite, this thread is a thread about a highly politically offensive character and his superteam of (hopefully) just as offensive future teammates. And I'm pretty hard to offend - hippie, remember? The only thing I can't stand is people talking down to me. As long as you deal with me as an equal who happens to have different opinions than you, we'll be just fine... =))