Pocket D's, gone down a notch?

Bet you 50k inf that you won't find it anywhere on any of the boxes!

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Bet you 50k inf that you won't find it anywhere on any of the boxes!

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Thank you for the influence. Because my CE CoV box says... "The most diabolical MMORPG ever made!"

Ahem.. I said "CoH is not an MMORPG". CoH = City of Heroes, not City of Villains!

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Ahem.. I said "CoH is not an MMORPG". CoH = City of Heroes, not City of Villains!

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But of course. It is not the same game. It is something completely different.

Indeed! I one, you're in Paragon City and play a superhero! In the other, You're in a place called The Rogue Island and play a nasty piece of work! Totally unconnected!

I was pretty sure it was a Massivly Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

(Evidence one. "City of Heroes (CoH) is a massively multiplayer online role-playing computer game" - Wiki)
(Evidence two. "The Super Powered Massively Multiplayer RPG" - City of Heroes offcial US site.)
(Evidence three. "City of Villains™ is the standalone sequel to critically acclaimed MMORPG City of Heroes." - ign.com)


Nevertheless a pointless arguement, even the OFFCIAL site says its an MMORPG, what more evidence do you need?

City of Heroes/Villians is an MMORPG, but it does fall into the MMOG category CoH/V is a type of MMOG the type of MMOG is an MMORPG. ( MMOG )

What makes an RPG?

Is it the building of a character, the skills, powers, equipment and such?
Then yes, it's an RPG.

Is it interaction choice that makes an RPG?
Then... personally, I wouldn't class this as an RPG.



It's all about definition...

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(Evidence two. "The Super Powered Massively Multiplayer RPG" - City of Heroes offcial US site.)

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CoX = MMORPG, As defined by NCSoft. I needent waste more time on this thread whether CoX is an MMOG or an MMORPG. NCSoft Says its an MMORPG, as does Wiki, as does ign. Yet you disagree with even the company that developed the game.

The bottom line, CoX IS a type of Massivly Multiplayer Online Game. But its catogrised under Massivly Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

Fine with me

Just thought it'd be interesting to hear YOUR views, as a player of the game.
Whether YOU think this is an RPG game...
Whether this is a game designed to RP in...
Whether it's a game where we RP despite of the game...

Note: this isn't just at ECHO but a question for everyone.

But if you'd rather be sheep...

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But if you'd rather be sheep...

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i'm a goat.



(okay, i was hoping i could get this back on topic, but thats the best it got)

Question: Pocket D's gone down a notch?

My answer: Nah I dont think so, not really. But then again, I'm not a frequenter. I use the nightclub as I use other locations in the game for plot development. Usually, when I am actually there, I bump into people my character might know and may stand around to greet.

I find two sorts of players distracting to my enjoyment.

First kind is the griefers. I'm not sure how much it has to do with PvP though. These people find it amusing to harass others for one reason or another. They can be antisocial but judging by the language I most often come across I'd say they are just young people. Rude, obnoxious, owning the world and young. For some that wears of during the years, others remain idiots their whole entire life.

Why do they mock roleplaying then? I have no truths but I have a theory that I believe explains at least a chunk of them.

Those players have come to CoH (or any other similar game) to "just play the game". Their characters are just their personal portals into the game world where they experience the game. They probably enjoy the story too, as told by NPCs. They read the mission descriptions and then go bust the mobs (or screw the stories and just bash). To them the world that they inhabit are defined strictly by their personal experiences - enhancements, insiprations, bosses, minions, story arcs. They don't immerse and emphatize with their characters just as I just produce infantry in Starcraft and send them to the slaughter by tens and hundreds. What they see is what they get.

Then they see two people standing by the corner of a building. Players, not NPCs. Why are they there? They can't be waiting for a mate because the mission entrance is not nearby. They are using emotes but somehow they aren't just goofing around. And what are they talking about? They don't talk about their real lives or even about the game like which AT to roll next after thei level this toon up. They talk about some mission as if it really mattered them. They talk about things that suggest personal histories to the characters, social lives, hopes and fears.

That's when the rug gets pulled from under them. They define the game world by what they experience directly. What they now face is a totally new look at how to play the game - by adding your own details, events and stories. Make-believe stuff that does not exist except by some weird common agreement with the other roleplayers.

They simply don't understand or see what exactly is going on. To them the imaginary social context belongs to the kindergarten where they played mom and dad and son and daughter and family dog. It's childish. It's something that they outgrew years, or maybe just year ago. It's stupid and beneath them.

This is where it gets ugly. They don't understand what the roleplayers are doing but they get the feeling that the RP'ers are having fun. They have their own community and "the thing" and they are enjoying it. And the griefers and tools, they have a vague sense that they are missing out on some fun. They get jealous and meanwhile they are too scared and proud to ask what it is that the RP'ers are doing. It's just some stupid child thing anyway, why should they ask about it, and besides their mates would think them sissies.

Lack of understanding, fear of ridicule if they show interest, jealousy over others having seemingly more and a touch of antisocial behaviour lead quickly to resentment and that manifests as griefing.

I know that this does not apply to everyone who behaves in this manner but I think it explains some of it.

This group is sort of simple to handle. There's probably not much hope of talking to them in peace and expecting that reason prevails. While these people are a major annoyance they do go away with time. They are easy to write off as morons and once they get through with you they vanish like a bad smell.


The other group that I find actually way harder to deal with are people whose way of roleplaying differs from mine enough and in the wrong way. To narrow it down here I mean semi-RP'ers, people who merrily mix IC and OOC.

As said complete OOC'er griefers can be dismissed. They don't get a chance to affect the IC life of your character however irritating they might be to your-IRL-self. It's those semi-roleplayers who by their IC actions can affect your character's perception of the world and touch your immersion.

It's people who find it natural to announce their return from afk in Local and with the same sentence resume their IC chat with someone. People who contact you via tells without any regard if your character is available, carrying a phone or even just wishing to disrupt whatever it is that they are doing just to talk with them. People who use in-game terms extensively to describe their world (like the names of the powers) and expect it to make sense to others as well. People who read your bio and refer to the facts stated there as if they knew your secret origin (then again I personally put in my bio only stuff that people could know about). In general it's people who don't stop to think what their characters should know and instead use just what the player knows.

This lot is harder to notice than the griefers and they can wreak some IC damage as well. At the very least they provide some level of irritation when you have to manage their IC input constantly and weed out all the immersion breaking stuff. It's taxing and for me at least something I'm not willing to do as a rule. I can take small amounts of it but that's it.

Considering those two groups I would have to answer affirmative to the question. When I started to frequent Pocket D about nightly some time last September-October there were several weeks without griefers hassling us. Even when they appeared it was a rare occurrence and distinctly isolated incidents. Now it seems they occur more often.

Also the semi-RP'er population was almost non-existent. Now sometimes when I whoosh by I get the impression as if they could be the majority. Granted I have not played with most of them to have any definite opinions but in some cases already the grammar that I see in my local puts me off enough to not even really want to.

In both counts Pocket D indeed has gone down, not even just a notch but a plunge.

I don't go there that often any more myself. Coile has had other things to deal with for the most part of the year and as his social circle has stopped frequenting PD as well so there's seldom a good enough reason to go there.

Tho, the last time Coile went there I had some real good time with Unity Vigil and EVIL.

Nice post there Coile, thumbs up! Very good assessment of the griefers and semi-RPers!

As you say, the griefers CAN be ignored, albeit with some difficulty if they start power spamming, but the semi-RPers are another story altogether. We can try educating them I guess, sending them tells asking them to use OOC markers and suchlike, but at the end of the day it usually doesn't work. So you're left with the options of either trying to handle them IC, or ignoring them too; which will affect your immersion to varying levels.

Well, Coile managed to put what I was trying to say much, much better. Good post, I think you hit the nail on the head with the first one, I've often heard people say that they 'don't understand' roleplaying, so that reasoning makes sense. Or to psychobable, it has face validity.

And same with the latter, including the problems of dealing with them that you and FFM mentioned. Personally? I hide behind a staircase and take a look about Pocket D, listening and looking to see who's there. If there's people I know of, I go up. If there's people I don't know of, but they're roleplaying to a reasonable standard after some observation, I'll head up. Most nights? I just think "Urgh... I can't be bothered..." and head off. Maybe that's me being elitist, maybe it's just me trying to ensure I don't get fustrated and annoyed with something I do for fun.

Coile put it spot on, summed up the situation perfectly.

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Maybe that's me being elitist, maybe it's just me trying to ensure I don't get fustrated and annoyed with something I do for fun.

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I wouldent say it was elitist at all Z. When im at D's nowadays (Seems it is currently the only place to find a bit of Villian RP, bar the SG.) i just hang around in the Tiki lounge, or monkey bar, the blue bar has became a no fly zone for me atleast, i dont even go there to check. Whether thats elitist or what i dont know, nor do i care.

Last night i had some great fun, Nick (Nightschild/Tant) was the first character to pick up demonic scent on Echo and its sent a huge long running plot on the way and this began in D's. Its simply finding the right spot at the right time and with the right people. I couldent put it better than Coile though he has went over the problems in D's (and more!) with detail and its 100% spot on.


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you hit the nail on the head

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And same with the latter, including the problems of dealing with them that you and FFM mentioned. Personally? I hide behind a staircase and take a look about Pocket D, listening and looking to see who's there. If there's people I know of, I go up. If there's people I don't know of, but they're roleplaying to a reasonable standard after some observation, I'll head up. Most nights? I just think "Urgh... I can't be bothered..." and head off. Maybe that's me being elitist, maybe it's just me trying to ensure I don't get fustrated and annoyed with something I do for fun.

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Unfortunately, this is what I tend to do these days as well. It reminds me of those times when I walk into a bar, don't see anyone I recognise and leave. It's a shame and yes, I'm aware of how incredibly snobby it is but given the grief I've had in there recently, it's the only way I've found to cut down on it. Maybe there is some merit in tucking ourselves away in a little corner somewhere but it would be a shame if the griefers and (how shall I put it politely) the less experienced RPers drove us out of somewhere that's pretty much perfect RP space. We should form a brute squad and go there en masse.

And yes, nice bit of analysis Coile, I would wholeheartedly agree. I think that mentality applies to a lot of people when they see something that they don't understand. It's easier to slate something and ridicule it than make the effort to live and let live. *sigh*

If you think about it, it's what little kids do. They see something new they don't understand, they poke it with a stick!

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If you think about it, it's what little kids do. They see something new they don't understand, they poke it with a stick!

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In which case we should demand a 'pointy stick' emote so that I can go to PD and poke them back with it.

Griefer: "cm to arena wv me, Ill pwnz u."
Me: /em poke
Griefer: "Hey!"
Me: /em poke
Griefer: "Ow! Cut it out!"
Me: /em poke, /em poke, /em poke...

(Just a bit of levity to an otherwise unhappy thread. )

I'd rather have some way of sending 50 volts through their mouse...

A quote from bash.org (praise bash.org!!)

"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"

Is anyone else reading the double XP weekened on Union thing and dreading the number of tools, idiots and griefers it's going to drag in with it.

I'm guessing PD's is gonna be a no go for that entire weekened and we get the fun cries of "union sucks i'm just here for double XP" and the rebuttle of, "Defiant sucks" echoing throughout broadcasting (mental note to self...turn off the broadcasting tab during that weekened).

So in short, hooray double XP, boo, people on defiant coming to INTENTIONALLY grief RPers....great...fricken great..

I'll be grinding to upgrade the UV's base, get Nene to 20 (Woo, second costume) and team with other friends and RP'ers. PD was rather deserted last time.

I'm just asking around about the game, but all things considered would you guys recommend Pocket D's as a good place to meet other RPers? Is it easy to get to and can both heroes and villains go there?

Also, I'm still a bit awkward on the use of chat channels. Is there any way to make it so that channels I'd consider OOC (Global, Team etc.) don't appear in speech bubbles when you write a message in them? Is it possible to write custom emotes (as an example, in WoW you could type something like /me chews on a string of Silverleaf)? How do you get dialogue to appear in thought bubbles (I saw someone do this when they were RPing a "symbiote" (I can guess where he got the idea) with a split personality)?

Alright! *cracks knuckles*

Pocket D is a good place to meet other RP'ers, both heroes and villains can go there, it's a neutral place so you don't have to worry about getting attacked. As for being easy to get to, if you have the Good vs Evil version of the game, you get a teleporter that teleports you to Pocket D, useable from level 3, with a recharge of 30 minutes. Otherwise, you can get there from Kings Row (Close to the station), Talos Island (Close to the station) and FOunders Falls hero side, and Port Oakes (Close to the ferry, but you have to run through Mercy to get there first if you're starting out), Sharkhead Isle and St. Martial on villains side.

Regarding the speechbubbles, I'm not sure if you can turn them off for individual channels, to write custom emotes you can use /em , /e or ; followed by your text, which unfortunately appear in thought bubbles above your head, but in the chat window look like:

*I type /e leans on the bar and orders a glass of wine.*
Zortel leans on the bar and orders a glass of wine.

And it'll appear above your head in a thought bubble as:

leans on the bar and orders a glass of wine.

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Alright! *cracks knuckles*

Pocket D is a good place to meet other RP'ers, both heroes and villains can go there, it's a neutral place so you don't have to worry about getting attacked. As for being easy to get to, if you have the Good vs Evil version of the game, you get a teleporter that teleports you to Pocket D, useable from level 3, with a recharge of 30 minutes. Otherwise, you can get there from Kings Row (Close to the station), Talos Island (Close to the station) and FOunders Falls hero side, and Port Oakes (Close to the ferry, but you have to run through Mercy to get there first if you're starting out), Sharkhead Isle and St. Martial on villains side.

Regarding the speechbubbles, I'm not sure if you can turn them off for individual channels, to write custom emotes you can use /em , /e or ; followed by your text, which unfortunately appear in thought bubbles above your head, but in the chat window look like:

*I type /e leans on the bar and orders a glass of wine.*
Zortel leans on the bar and orders a glass of wine.

And it'll appear above your head in a thought bubble as:

leans on the bar and orders a glass of wine.

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Thanks very much, mate. Hope to see you guys around whenever I'm on.