Pocket D's, gone down a notch?

It's all k doods. I totally might turn up every now and again to liven stuff up. Rly tho I might come off like a tool but you just gotta give me a chance.

Actually, we had a line between good RPer and RP elitist 'back in the day', so to speak - usually that the so-called elitists would cling to their view, their perspective and their method and refuse anything that deviated in the least, whereas the rest attempted some level of patience and flexibility.

In short, the elitists were the good RPers that couldn't stand even those that didn't know but wanted to learn, or even a decent chunk of the other good RPers simply out of style clash.

The term kindof dissolved though and turned into what FFM describe, and with several sourcebooks of written canon (however contradictive), the terms "RP elitist" and "Lore elitist" generally was ascribed to anyone who thought that you really shouldn't completely ignore the setting, backstory, overall impression on the world and cause and effect in itself.
/shrug

Yes, I've envied this community because you could talk about things without tearing eachother to shreds. Pardon my latent bitterness. :|


Putting things into defined terms.. I think really what makes a good Rper is as simple as respect - to the world and those around you - and expression - the ability to express yourself and your intentions, aswell as understand that of others.
The one line between elitist and "just good RPer" would be patience and flexibility - some leeway for those who have a different way of things, though not to the extent that you try to embrace everything. In short, enough patience and flexibility to accept the "don't know but want to learn" crowd without being burned out by the "don't know but think they know" one.

Finally, I guess, know your limits.

I'd like to say really all of above is just common sense. Unfortunately however (and as history and the testimonies of this thread has proven), common sense is anything but common. :<

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Which means most non-rpers HAVE to use PD's to store their salvage especially if they're not in an SG/VG with their own invention storage (let's face it...most tools aren't in groups) which inadvertently drags in the griefers and people who just want to hassle RPers 'because it's fun'.


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there are vaults all over paragon and the isles..... of course the tools arnt likely to find them, seings theyre not that bright.



i also want to retract the term "pvper" from earlier posts. it was just a general blanket term due to the number of people who are there to use the arena, and then spend their time griefing.
I know quite a few people that i would lable as "pvpers" who are actualy nice people.

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On the subject of elitism: Being an elitist is looking down on one part of society and refusing to see another sides story (it's my way or the highway syndrome), this did become most clear during the forum split with the people for heroes plotline, some people of BOTH sides refused to see the points that some people were making and come to a friendly conclusion. So people on both sides could be labelled elitist.


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Just as a point of note, that plotline isn't the first time the RP community has schismed, and it won't be the last; you can be sure of that. Not trying to doomsay, but these things are cyclical. I think it's about the third split I've seen since being here.

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If you point blank refuse to help (even giving just small pointers in /t quickly) a ROOKIE who is blatently there to try and improve, then your an elitist. Since there is one thing that this RP community needs, to be able to stick together for a change instead of yanking itself apart as we constantly seem to do. Teach those rookies that wish to be taught otherwise they're going to think the RP community on CoX sucks as much as it does on WoW.

there...all done...

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When you've been accused dozens of times of elitism when trying to help people in the past, does that give you incentive to go through it again? No, not really... Quite the opposite in fact. At the end of the day, you cannot tell how a person is going to react to "teaching"; and could quite easily jump down your throat for trying. So, once bitten, twice shy.

Kind of sad really, but it's the way things seem to work. We older RPers (I use the term as in those of us that have been here a long long time) have had it happen to us several times. It happened to some of those that did it to us, and now it looks to be the turn of the newer generation.

(Please note, this is a generalisation. I'm not trying to point any fingers at anyone, or burn any crosses or anything; it's simply an observation.)

PD's salvage vaults are simply the easiest to find, as Lunk said, the tools ain't that bright and will often go for what they think is the easier option.

I've tried to do plotlines that don't as such, actively try and alter the world at large (since we all know that altering the game through RP plots is impossible, it's a static enviroment unlike those in P&P games where the players really can alter the enviroment around them). The walking toasters is a good example, don't want to have one or want your character to think they exist don't have your character buy one and just ignore it.

The Chronodyne plotline, while it did seems freeform i actually had a planned ending from the outset. Enough reports of drugs being burned and goons being arrested, then of course the Family was going to yank it off the streets and refuse to ship it, no matter how much money they made off of it, just proved to troublesome. The plotline involved a large number of people and seemed to go down quite well. Those that didn't want in, could ignore it.

But anyway thats enough of me prattling on about that.

In response to Kompi, most of the RP community does possess common sense, yes we have blown up into fullblown fights over one plotline (though admittely even that you could still actively ignore it or atleast play your characters apathy towards it IC, some people really took an OOC afront to it...but hey). Normally we quietly talk about things and discuss them, 89% of the time we get along.

There is of course factions amongst the RPers but then even a minority has factions within it. I don't mean semi-rpers and the like, i mean factions that possess different styles to others.

My character adjusts to the situation and who he is with. Around his fellow EVIL members he lets his hair down and is often seen as the nutjob scientist of the group with a family of bickering robots. Around women he sticks to a gentlemanly conduct code almost victorian in its ways. However that still doesn't stop him being evil. The Chronodyne plotline revealed the over the top madness was often used as a front to make himself seem harmless, when really he was actually being cold and calculating in his methods.

Now some people don't like characters like that and that's fair enough. I respect anyone that knows more about the lore of the game than me (i use to be a massive lore buff in WoW...even though i wasn't on an RP server, i just found it interesting).

RP as with anything is a personal taste, very personal infact. If you're teaching the rookie the ropes, teach them the basics and let them advance in their own way to create a unique and interesting character, don't tell them they HAVE to RP in a certain way because that just stunts creative growth.

In response to FFM: If you see someone actively trying to RP to a reasonable standard but they slip up here and there, that's what i mean by giving them quick pointer. It's a hard line to judge whose a rookie and whose a n00b. Heh i was a rookie not so long ago, was kind of nice to people occasionally give me /t pointers along the way.

I'm rambling aren't i...

sorry.

Posting on behalf of Shadowe:

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I've not been here as long as some RPers, and I know that I've let myself be dragged into some silly arguments in the past (for the record, it's never personal, guys), but this is a matter that's really close to my heart: How do we attract new RPers to the scene on CoH, without being seen as a clique? And we are, trust me on that.

As Z can attest (and possibly FFM if he can remember back that far) due to some trawling of the old GG thread, I turned up at the statue in January 2006.

Once.

I tried. I really did. But it's damn hard to get involved without being pushy, and given that I'm generally quite shy and afraid of putting myself forward (it's true!), that single time ended in ignominous failure. But, thanks to the efforts of some people there I wasn't put off going back. It just took me 4 or 5 months to get my head straight about it and try again. I actually wish I'd been more persistent first time round, but like I said, I'm a bit shy about that sort of thing.

Now, I mentioned the chap we call 'Tool' a bit earlier. I'm of two minds with regard to him. First off, he can be annoying as hell. He butts in to a lot of conversations and this winds a lot of people up. I'm one of them. Seondly, though, is the fact that he keeps trying. If I were to go back and look at my chatlogs, I'm sure I'd see a learning curve. He's a lot better than he was, and I rejoice in his presence at times, because it means that the RP community members who turn up at GG haven't stagnated.

The thing is, like FFM said, I'm there to RP my toons, and interrupting that to educate someone on what we consider 'proper' behaviour is... frustrating.

So, flat out question, then. What can we, as current RPers, do to try and make sure that new RPers aren't driven away by our seeming-closed-off-ness. Because we do appear that way.


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Well I admit most of my examples and experiences are centered around Earthen Ring - still getting settled in here. I don't doubt that the roleplaying element lacks common sense (after all, it was my description of what makes good roleplayers, heh), I just lack faith in that its tormentors do.

For the record, the Earthen Ring community certainly had the get-along percentage at lower than 89% :>

heh figure off the top of my head, would have said 99% but we do have constant if friendly disagreements on things. Though it's nice to know that it does seem to be a common consensus that PD's isn't what it use to be and it's not just me being a grumpy young man (23) about the whole thing.

Shadowe does have a point, how do we encourage new RPers? Well thankfully i've seen CitzenStu as Sneed several times now and actively make a point to talk to him IC, he's actually pretty damn good at RPing.

I do still manage to enjoy some time in PD's. Last night was pretty good, got the chance to slip into what i call 'old doctor mode' where he's more insane and a little bit more ranty. Just as Lunk...he was there for it.

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On the subject of elitism: Being an elitist is looking down on one part of society and refusing to see another sides story (it's my way or the highway syndrome), this did become most clear during the forum split with the people for heroes plotline, some people of BOTH sides refused to see the points that some people were making and come to a friendly conclusion. So people on both sides could be labelled elitist.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just as a point of note, that plotline isn't the first time the RP community has schismed, and it won't be the last; you can be sure of that. Not trying to doomsay, but these things are cyclical. I think it's about the third split I've seen since being here.

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And I've seen twice more. Heck, we had an RP community schism in the first month of the EU game going live. First ever GG meet? There was an OOC chat beforehand between a group of players after a huge argument on the forums. History will repeat itself time and time again in the same fashion, some faces and names change, but it'll stay pretty similar.

Heck, maybe it was thrice more times than three these eyes have seen. It's one of those things you learn to live with.

Sometimes I'll point things out, it depends on what mood I'm in really, and how the person seems to be acting. But as people have said, after a while you just lose patience with doing it for nothing (if you're lucky, if not, you get verbal abuse and snarkyness), and that patience is a very, very hard thing to recover.

Like with Bartending as Alraune. I tried to be patient, but in the end the stress of having to put up with godmodders stealing, refusing to pay for drinks and the like, things that I could do nothing about, got to me and I just quit it.

After a while with these things, a general feeling of apathy sets in. I know that's stopped me logging in lately.

It'd be nice to change that, but at the moment, I just get fustrated if I try and force myself in.

heh, not been here long enough for the jadedness to set in (another 10 days till i finally get the three month reward..yay).

Though i did suffer what i call 'WoW Burnout' which is where you just can't stand the game anymore and you have to go play something else as a breaker game (a game which breaks up playing WoW). Oddly thanks to the RP scene my breaker game became the one i play more than WoW (i still play it once or twice a week, i have friends on there so it's nice to just chat to them).

Through trolls, schisms and waves of griefers this RP community shall endure. Though i am wondering, most of the tools do seem to be low level and it suggests that it's the free trial thing...so give it a month and most of the tools will have gone back to playing WoW etc.

Well i can live in hope can't i.

Edit:
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it was thrice more times than three these eyes have seen

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How very poetic and lovely, i really like that Zortel. Not often you see something like that and it brightened my day, don't ask me why, it just did (please not this is not sarcastic, i actually do like that poetic phrase).

I was playing my Forsaken Priest earlier on in the day, he likes to preach, you just get in a mindset for these kinds of things.

Respect, Tenacity, Power! We are Forsaken in name only, for the Forgotten Shadow guides us. Praise be the shadows!

Ye gods! I really must rescue the poor girl from WoW...

Heh makes me wish i'd tried to RP on WoW now.

Though a Dwarf hunter with a spider for a pet...hmm..not very dwarfish.

(camped for eight hours to get that spider at level 27, Naraxis, rare spawn named with the unique thing being it's the only tameable spider with its markings in the game, found in Duskwood. Yeah spiders aren't great in WoW pet terms...but everyone else had a cat, or a boar, i wanted to be different...part of me wishing i could change my bots to Arachnobots because of my affinity for my old WoW pet).

Still think my best moment of RP in WoW wasn't even on an RP server.

Picture the scene, it's fairly late at night and for the last hour you've been hearing reports of an 80 strong horde raid fighting their way first through theramore, then the wetlands, then lochmodan. It was clear where these guys were heading for Ironforge (dwarf capital) when you hear someone doing a /y that the raid is at the north gate pass.

Thankfully one of the members of the top raiding guild on the server was on. Hearing lines like:

"We'll hold them at the gates, it's small and a choke point, remember..i want battle lines people."

"Warriors, first row, rogues just behind them, hunters i want traps of any kind you can throw down to slow them down, pick your targets carefully, if it's in a dress, shoot it. Cloth wearers i want you as far back as feasibly possible while keeping in range, they will break the lines so mages, warlocks, watch out for the priests."

"anyone not willing to take part in this battle i suggest you use the deeprun tram to evacuate, i want a small group of people to guard those not wishing to fight while they make a run for the tram, we don't want them drawn in".

Just made it feel like an RP moment and at the same time quite epic.

I think the horde were quite stunned when they arrive seeing a properly drawn up battle lines (even if it was a mishmash of all sorts of armor and weapons) and if only they could have heard the cry of "SHIELD WALL" as they charged. It felt inspiring and we managed to hold them off until reinforcements arrived through the Deeprun tram (a high end guild had just finished a Molten Core raid late at night and decided to join in the fun).

I suppose every game has it's chances for epic encounters. Yes we may slag off WoW but there are still times when you sit there and bask in RP glory.

<Digs out old FlagRSP>

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Cassia Speedsteel

Slender and agile her form is near perfect, her short jetblack hair often blowing in her face enough to annoy her at times. She looks in her early twenties and has quite remarkable eyes they seem to glow a vibrant sky blue when shes excited or filled with adrenaline, odd for a human. Theres also a tight choker around her neck, so tight it looks to be constricting her it seems to be made from Thorium and has writing all around it seems like High elven or Darnassian, on closer inspection it seems to be one piece, unremoveable, and reads...
.
"Al fulo osa do'rah T'as'e"
.
On her right hand is also something eye catching a large flawless diamond ring, perfect, symbolising her Engagement to Patchorus. She always looks around her enviroments, looking for threats, escape routes anything that would aid her if the worst happened. She made the mistake of not doing so once, if you ever caught a glimpse of her right hip you'd see why.

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<Hides>

I hope when you more experianced RPers are in you do not mind a newbie comming in and giving it a go, I would like to RP correctly so if in my villan form I may act a bit nasty but she is steeped in shadow energy so is a bit of a cow

No one minds a newbie, it's when they start mixing IC and OOC, and going a bit overboard with "evil" that difficulties arise.

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<Digs out old FlagRSP>

[ QUOTE ]

Cassia Speedsteel

Slender and agile her form is near perfect, her short jetblack hair often blowing in her face enough to annoy her at times. She looks in her early twenties and has quite remarkable eyes they seem to glow a vibrant sky blue when shes excited or filled with adrenaline, odd for a human. Theres also a tight choker around her neck, so tight it looks to be constricting her it seems to be made from Thorium and has writing all around it seems like High elven or Darnassian, on closer inspection it seems to be one piece, unremoveable, and reads...
.
"Al fulo osa do'rah T'as'e"
.
On her right hand is also something eye catching a large flawless diamond ring, perfect, symbolising her Engagement to Patchorus. She always looks around her enviroments, looking for threats, escape routes anything that would aid her if the worst happened. She made the mistake of not doing so once, if you ever caught a glimpse of her right hip you'd see why.

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<Hides>

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If that made you go into hiding, I won't show my newbie rp messages. words involving in the description include: "delicate, perfect, melodic, see thru dresses, arrows that never miss, inhuman traits not noticed at first etc etc"

Was just my WoW 'Bio' thing, WoW is generally disliked on all other games. (Bar WoW)

But I must add that my language wasn't(and isn't) as good as yours!

I don't like WoW, but I have no idea why as I've never tried it and I love Warcraft I-III :P

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No one minds a newbie, it's when they start mixing IC and OOC, and going a bit overboard with "evil" that difficulties arise.

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See I'm the opposite...I stopped going to Pocket D because I once got ridiculed for being steretypically evil, when I was just being a jerk to heroes. Isn't roleplaying a bad [censored] villain allowed? Plus I dig golden age comic books. I want my good guys good and my bad guys bad. Not all hanging out together in a night club But I guess we all looking for different things from the game, each to their own.

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I don't like WoW, but I have no idea why as I've never tried it

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Sorry, but, lol.

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I don't like WoW, but I have no idea why as I've never tried it

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Sorry, but, lol.

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yeah, got to agree with chump norris here on this one.

(see you werent on test tonight you big girls blouse)

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No one minds a newbie, it's when they start mixing IC and OOC, and going a bit overboard with "evil" that difficulties arise.

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See I'm the opposite...I stopped going to Pocket D because I once got ridiculed for being steretypically evil, when I was just being a jerk to heroes. Isn't roleplaying a bad [censored] villain allowed? Plus I dig golden age comic books. I want my good guys good and my bad guys bad. Not all hanging out together in a night club But I guess we all looking for different things from the game, each to their own.

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Roleplaying a bad<bleep> villain is perfectly fine; but what we often get are people going on about gutting people and ripping them apart and doing all sorts of thoroughly nasty to other people. Quite frankly, a lot of people don't want to hear that kind of thing and people who do it frequently find themselves ignored by most everyone else.

If you think about it; hearing about all sorts of nasty crimes in Pocket D is a measure in frustration, especially for heroes. Their IC morals would require them to do something, but they simply CAN'T. So on a general basis, be as evil as you want; BUT people won't appreciate hearing about it being just randomly bandied about.

[ QUOTE ]
Roleplaying a bad<bleep> villain is perfectly fine
.
If you think about it; hearing about all sorts of nasty crimes in Pocket D is a measure in frustration, especially for heroes. Their IC morals would require them to do something, but they simply CAN'T. So on a general basis, be as evil as you want; BUT people won't appreciate hearing about it being just randomly bandied about.

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I remember an undead 'gentleman' in the challet that liked to get in the face of heroes (how he knew they were heroes, I'll never know) and be rather obnoctious, quite concious about his own decaying smell.

There were 4 types of reactions:
a) OOC/IC ignoring, completly not responding.
b) IC ignoring, my mage cast a 'can't hear, can't smell' spell on herself conserning the corpse.
c) Annoyance
d) Diversionairy flirting. After him getting in the face of a friend of one of the scantidly clad heroes (said friend has a sensitive nose), she occupied his time away from the friend with flirting, dangling a line or some such.

And then there were the other villains after 'he' relaxed his entertainment. When he got along nicely... why? If he likes to get in the face of heroes and be obnoxious, why not villains?

Any way...
Over the top evil? Sure go ahead...
Expect some nice RPing instead of being ignored? I doubt it for both OOC "Oh god an other loon" and IC "Can't do anything, why bother" reasons.


For instance, one of my characters witnessed some rather harsh threathening going on in PD. It were characters of 2 friends of mine, and the threatener thought my character would come back after talking with the victim to tell her off... Why bother? Words didn't look like they'd help with anything, at least when threatening, the character was being nice and frank about what she was, rather then be a serial killer with a nice public mask.



addendum: The can't think of any reason anyone would talk to some one who's being over the top evil...

What makes some one an elitist?
I think it's lack of things...
Respect
Understanding
Patience
Tolerance

Any of the above can trigger (moments of) elitisms...

Respect, hardest to explain... Respect is given, earned, or broken.... hmm.. not sure what I want to say with this.. moving on.

Understanding, for other people's needs/desires/skill. Mostly the skill. Understanding that everyone has to start somewhere. Understanding that you too made yor first steps in to ... what ever you're elitist about. That you too made mistakes, that some might make more then you, some might make less.

Patience, if you lack patience you're not going to bother with new people, simple as that. If you lack patience, you will make little to no effort to constructively improve the other's skill.

Tolerance, how much BS can you tolerate?





Personally, I think the first two are cause for more 'long term' elitism, while the latter two are more cause for 'momentary' elitism.