[ QUOTE ]
All foes are herded nicely around the tank, in the AoE of his aura, and you say it would be better to taunt than fire off a PBAoE attack?
[/ QUOTE ]
Gauntlet IS taunting on the other hand.. I am biased as I have always been since I can kill an enemy in about same time it takes a scrapper to kill a herd. Attacking is pretty pointless to me and taunt is after all autohit and recharges and activates faster than most my attacks anyway.
I wouldnt mind respeccing most of my attacks away since they are worth chicken poop anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Numbers/statistics are better than playing and enjoying the game as is?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to say that I hated I5 and ED because I feel they forced me to pay attention to the numbers..
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't have to tho, you can certainly get by without it... apart from knowing that more than 3 of any enhancement type is a bad thing to do I don't really have a clue about any of the numbers. And I think I prefer it that way..
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I do if I want to maintain a fraction of my survivability of before. Not to mention not having my play constantly interrupted by dying.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I knew there was a reason I kept from posting.... I cant believe how far people are willing to go just to say they've been here longer, which doesnt necessarily mean that they know more......
I think ill go back to enjoying the game and steer clear from areas such as this. I cant believe what Im reading.
.....Thanks for all the fish!! They definately knew better :-)
[/ QUOTE ]
Why dont you do better than that and come out with numbers, talk game dynamics, come up with something?
[/ QUOTE ]
Numbers/statistics are better than playing and enjoying the game as is?
[/ QUOTE ]
Stasis i said that so he might say something useful and not a concoction from his own frame of mind. This guy believes that tanks should do damage and so do I, I never said any different. The thing is people should play their toons how they like to play them, I never said any different. I play all my toons how i like to play them, how i play them is from the perspective of all my other toons. Other people may wish to differ. We all have different ideas of fun. If i asked a 100 people on "whats the right way to live" we may all have different answers. You team with people for different reasons. I have said that the minimum requirement for a tanker to tank is gauntlet and its true. I uphold my opinions until the day i am "proven" otherwise in which case I will change them.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Numbers/statistics are better than playing and enjoying the game as is?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to say that I hated I5 and ED because I feel they forced me to pay attention to the numbers..
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't have to tho, you can certainly get by without it... apart from knowing that more than 3 of any enhancement type is a bad thing to do I don't really have a clue about any of the numbers. And I think I prefer it that way..
[/ QUOTE ]
I like some numbers because going by feel isnt always the best way. I dont have that unnatural psychicness that allows me to get things right. I have to look things up, i may go test to be sure. I dont min/max all my toons even with numbers and i dont go all out for certain things. My tank Shannon is not the hardest kill in the world, she is very damaging and has pretty damn good and flexible taunt control which i find useful. The reason why she isnt as hard as i could get her is because i have that much faith in what magic the other defender sets etc can do. However id like to find ways in how i play that gives everyone a good chance of being good at what they do.
To @Sin I agree with you wholeheartedly, with some people i dont know why they made a tank, perhaps they are new to the game but sometimes they arent.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Numbers/statistics are better than playing and enjoying the game as is?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to say that I hated I5 and ED because I feel they forced me to pay attention to the numbers..
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't have to tho, you can certainly get by without it... apart from knowing that more than 3 of any enhancement type is a bad thing to do I don't really have a clue about any of the numbers. And I think I prefer it that way..
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I do if I want to maintain a fraction of my survivability of before. Not to mention not having my play constantly interrupted by dying.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, I wasn't actually saying that you (as in hammer) didn't have to, it was more of "yes, but you (as in generic) don't have to do that"
And I still think you (generic) don't have to know anything about the numbers, just a general knowledge of how to slot.
This is getting confusing now... but basically... the average person could get by without having any knowledge of numbers and statistics, still have fun and still not die all that much. Admittedly not everyone enjoys playing the game that way and would prefer to know all about the numbers and the stats. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
I agree, totally. The Scrapping tanker IS the norm and should therefore be referred to as a tanker. Tanks with only shields should be given the alternate name!!
*Goes into deep thought*
Jank Tank?
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[ QUOTE ]
Freedom Falcon,
I speak here as someone who teamed with you way back in yout "teen" levels and later on, was on a lowbie team that you tanked for when you were in your early 30s just to help out (you were not exemped and thus got XP yourself) Far from getting pwned I think you have tanking down to a fine art.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you Lady, I appreciate that.
[ QUOTE ]
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[/ QUOTE ]Blasters don't have a secondary with 8 healing powers though.
[ QUOTE ]
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[/ QUOTE ]
My main priority is in getting hit and trying not to allow others to get hit which is not always possible. If people are going to join you in a cone attack when they could be elsewhere and you cant move because you'd bring direction of fire onto someone else what can you do. But i footstomp and what have you, as much as possible, wherever possible as sometimes there is only so long you can stand up for especially as not every defender will have a heal.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have to say that I hated I5 and ED because I feel they forced me to pay attention to the numbers..
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, I wasn't actually saying that you (as in hammer) didn't have to, it was more of "yes, but you (as in generic) don't have to do that"
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I see where your coming from, but at that time all I had was Hammer, and he was nerfed so much. Still feeling bad about it. Now I have Skyfire and I have gotten back to the game and my other alts, but I am propably never going to get over what ED did to Hammer.
After I8 im gonna have 5 respecs available for him and Ive already went thru basically all permutations of the powers. None of them make any difference, war mace still sucks.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have to say that I hated I5 and ED because I feel they forced me to pay attention to the numbers..
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, I wasn't actually saying that you (as in hammer) didn't have to, it was more of "yes, but you (as in generic) don't have to do that"
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I see where your coming from, but at that time all I had was Hammer, and he was nerfed so much. Still feeling bad about it. Now I have Skyfire and I have gotten back to the game and my other alts, but I am propably never going to get over what ED did to Hammer.
After I8 im gonna have 5 respecs available for him and Ive already went thru basically all permutations of the powers. None of them make any difference, war mace still sucks.
[/ QUOTE ]
What you went through is the same as what any other player went through at that time. After all, ED was, at the end of the day, a method of making the game a lot more balanced. So, supposedly, 'Hammerfall', is now as he should be, whereas before he was overpowered.
Does this mean you will revert to a full shield tank and ditch some secondaries?
[ QUOTE ]
None of them make any difference, war mace still sucks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, I don't even have damage enhancements slotted into my mace attacks in my current build - just accuracy, recharge and end reduction. It's not like my damage is worth a damn anyway so I may as well maximise my quantlet ability. I've tried to find a build I'd be happy with taking onto teams for tanking or to solo with if I wanted to take Gen 2 for a run but I found it impossible to find a build capable of both - it takes forever to take bad guys down unless I sacrifice a whole lot of my team survivability. I've just resigned myself to leaving my guy in a tanking-capable build and ignore any urges to take him for a solo run. Prior to ED soloing was very tolerable - heck I did it most of the way to 50. Of course prior to ED and the global defense changes the Inv side of his build was hideously overpowered. He was min-maxed to every cap possible and was pretty much unkillable. The Inv side needed a reduction and ED et al did that admirably. Mace took a hammering in the process though. That's all as an aside of course...
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I play my tanks as aggressive meat-shields. I will attack for as long as I can afford the endurance cost and on the condition that it's not causing me to lose track of aggro - the last thing you want to do as a tank is for your actions to get the whole team killed, especially if it's because you were too busy beating on that Boss to notice that you'd lost the attention of the other mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Follow this simple guide, and you will be instantly be a good tank.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[/ QUOTE ]Blasters don't have a secondary with 8 healing powers though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, then as an empath focused on blasting 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[/ QUOTE ]Blasters don't have a secondary with 8 healing powers though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, then as an empath focused on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]A good empath in a good team only needs to apply fort, AB and RA's when they're up, as well as few heals and CM's here and there, there's a lot free time there which can be used to focus on blasting
Endurance and Aggro permitting, SHOULD be used for blasting, even if its just a neutrino bolt.
Just because damage is mediocre for tanks and defenders, dosent mean it dosent count.
Really, I cant see any reasonable team complaining about tanking, but every reasonable team should complain if the tank doesent jump in first and grab aggro.
I had to, a couple of months ago, ask a stone tank.. in GRANITE form (yes, granite), without taunt power, to run his mud pots. And every 10 minutes ago I would have to remind him. Now that folks, is behaviour worth complaining about. Not the fact he was hitting enemies with a big axe.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[/ QUOTE ]Blasters don't have a secondary with 8 healing powers though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, then as an empath focused on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]A good empath in a good team only needs to apply fort, AB and RA's when they're up, as well as few heals and CM's here and there, there's a lot free time there which can be used to focus on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]
If empath has so much free time, it's not needed, he will just leech the rest of the team's xp 
An empath could be made to have lots of free time or have no free time to use secondaries its all on the team dynamics. You can either have 1 person as an empath to pretty much worry about or 8 people.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
There is a lot of discussion about specialisation here.
Going back to the OP, the answer boils down to: If you are a certain AT, a team should reasonably expect you to perform reasonably well at that AT's role. Using or not using your secondaries may or may not be relevant to this. But the question the team should be asking is not "is the tank attacking" or "is the defender blasting", but "is the tank taking the vast majority of the aggro"? and "is the defender protecting us?".
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[/ QUOTE ]Blasters don't have a secondary with 8 healing powers though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, then as an empath focused on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]A good empath in a good team only needs to apply fort, AB and RA's when they're up, as well as few heals and CM's here and there, there's a lot free time there which can be used to focus on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]
That depends on the level of the mission as well. A con red mish will need more healing than a con blue.
This discussion reminds me of a quote.
"If we all reacted the same we'd be predictable. And there's always more than one way to view a situation. What's true for the group is also true for the individual. It's simple. Overspecialize and you breed in weakness. It's slow death."
- Major Motoko Kusanagi, Ghost in the Shell
Read what you want from that.
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[/ QUOTE ]Blasters don't have a secondary with 8 healing powers though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, then as an empath focused on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]A good empath in a good team only needs to apply fort, AB and RA's when they're up, as well as few heals and CM's here and there, there's a lot free time there which can be used to focus on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]
If empath has so much free time, it's not needed, he will just leech the rest of the team's xp
[/ QUOTE ]He will leech, if he's not using his secondary 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A tank focused on attacking seems to me as useful to a team as a blaster focused on healing. Sure it's a nice bonus, but not the way to take the best of the AT imo
[/ QUOTE ]Blasters don't have a secondary with 8 healing powers though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, then as an empath focused on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]A good empath in a good team only needs to apply fort, AB and RA's when they're up, as well as few heals and CM's here and there, there's a lot free time there which can be used to focus on blasting
[/ QUOTE ]
That depends on the level of the mission as well. A con red mish will need more healing than a con blue.
[/ QUOTE ]A good team won't be doing a red conning mish
Oh, I have nothing against people who like looking at the raw numbers and statistics (or at least, their interpretations of them) in fact, I thank people for doing it so that I don't have to.
However, I do object to someone alluding to the fact that the numbers and stats are better than just enjoying the game. We all get our kicks in different ways, and as long as no one is hurt, we should be allowed to.