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Trust me, there is absolutely nothing wrong my scrappers or tanks slottings Plenty will atest to that
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I am pretty sure of this and is only safe to assume the scrapper is a load of [censored] then and people are actually rolling loads of tank AT's to actually pvp...this is sad if the devs managed to to do this.
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The way you presented your statement seemed to me to be somewhat misleading, almost as if you were ignoring criticals entirely. If that wasn't what you were meaning, then we're both on the same page, so no problem. 
SS, however, still suffers from Rage downtime which causes its own issues - issues that Scrappers never suffer from.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
if u reckon a pvp tanks jobs is to taunt and not attack what the hell is a granite tank gonna do? even with a kin it wud be laughed at, imagine a granite tank on speed trying to keep up with ppl on the eden map, it just wudnt happen because a granite tank cant jump and as taunt is broken by los granite against a good team is completely pointless.
and against a good team nothing but high burst dmg will get a kill.
I honestly think Granite is rather rubbish in PvP, even when backed with a /kin or two.
Sure, the /kin will speed up the Granite. But the /kin will speed up the other tanks too.
If you consider damage output, Granite's will always be lowest of the low.
If you consider Granite as a PvP team, and that there job is to lockdown by aggro grabbing - no matter how fast a Granite moves/taunts/punchvokes with /kin, All the other tanks will do it masively better with /kin. All Granite does is be able to take massive quantities of damage. As people have said, an Ice tank with Hibernate is a huge job to take down, and will be hugely better at grabbing aggro.
And if you paired with a kin/elec defender, I would have thought the extra end drain from energy absorbtion is a rather nice synergy, no?
PvP? Id say an Ice/EM or Ice/SS wins. Boring, predictable, and dull, but hey ho.
Fire/SS or Fire/EM is a good skranker build, Id guess.
personally in team pvp i'd pick fire/em everytime for my team but then the player is also important, i'd pick max powerz over every other tank and he carries an axe 
And how we laugh at the axe. Ohohoho.
Heck of a job Tanking, though.
Invul/ss and invul/em are awesome tank sets...for quick zone pvp (sirens mostly) you might want /ss but higher lvl pvp EM is much better..
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One of the things I don't understand about the Invulnerability set is how Invincibility works in PvP. I thought your def bonus was derived from the number of attackers hitting you.
In PvP I always envisage fighting one or two people at a time max and therefore receiving a very small def bonus.
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Sorry to bump my own post, could someone answer the question above for me? I always figured Invincibility the cornerstone of the set so it would figure pretty prominently in any Invulnerable build.
"Invincibility (Inv) provides 5% defense to smashing, lethal, fire, cold, energy, and negative energy
plus another 1.5% for each foe in melee range (max 10). It also adds a 3% to-hit bonus for every foe
in melee range (max 10) and provides a melee taunt-effect"
From HERE
That's the base, unslotted figure. I don't know if it performs differently in PvP (I doubt it) so in most PvP circumstances where you're only facing one or two people you'll be getting only about 10% defense or so. I dropped Invincibility from my scrapper's Siren's Call build as I thought other powers gave more benefit (it would be handy for when I accidentally end up in a hotspot battle though). I did pick it back up at lvl 35 though for PvE reasons.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
So given that does it mean that Invul is now inferior to Ice?
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So given that does it mean that Invul is now inferior to Ice?
[/ QUOTE ]Ice also relies heavily on energy aborption, which is better the more foes you have around you.
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So given that does it mean that Invul is now inferior to Ice?
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Invul is better than ice imo, because of unyielding.
Someone mentioned that Ice is better for confined spaces, but what if you're facing TK or Force Bubble and you have no kin?
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
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"Invincibility (Inv) provides 5% defense to smashing, lethal, fire, cold, energy, and negative energy
plus another 1.5% for each foe in melee range (max 10). It also adds a 3% to-hit bonus for every foe
in melee range (max 10) and provides a melee taunt-effect"
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So facing 2 opponents I'm getting 8% def from Invincibility plus an additional 5% from Weave I would have 13% def which would not be too shoddy.
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"Invincibility (Inv) provides 5% defense to smashing, lethal, fire, cold, energy, and negative energy
plus another 1.5% for each foe in melee range (max 10). It also adds a 3% to-hit bonus for every foe
in melee range (max 10) and provides a melee taunt-effect"
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So facing 2 opponents I'm getting 8% def from Invincibility plus an additional 5% from Weave I would have 13% def which would not be too shoddy.
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Depends on whether or not you have Tough Hide to cancel out the defense debuff from Unyielding. Here are some power/slotting combinations from the same link I posted earlier:
Defense to Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, and Negative Energy:
Uny, Inv (0 SO DefBuf) - Total 1.5% (1 foe), 15% (10 foes)
Uny, Inv (1 SO DefBuf) - Total 2.8% (1 foe), 19% (10 foes)
Uny, Inv (2 SO DefBuf) - Total 4.1% (1 foe), 23% (10 foes)
Uny, Inv (3 SO DefBuf) - Total 5.1% (1 foe), 26.2% (10 foes)
Uny, Inv (3 SO DefBuf), TH (1 SO DefBuf) - Total 11.1% (1 foe), 32.2% (10 foes)
Uny, Inv (3 SO DefBuf), TH (3 SO DefBuf) - Total 13.1% (1 foe), 34.2% (10 foes)
Uny, Inv (3 SO DefBuf), TH (1 SO DefBuf), Weave (3 SO DefBuf) - Total 18.9% (1 foe), 40% (10 foes)
Uny, Inv (3 SO DefBuf), TH (3 SO DefBuf), Weave (3 SO DefBuf) - Total 20.9% (1 foe), 42% (10 foes)
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
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So given that does it mean that Invul is now inferior to Ice?
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just different
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Concerning the granite tank issue:
I found them to be quite weak in PvP, their main problem being the simple fact that granite is a toggle and can thus be turned off by endu denial.
A kinetic can easily be a granite tank´s best friend or his worst nightmare.
Even one single (but skilled) kinetic can strip that armor off quite fast and two of them can keep that tank from ever activating it again (while doing nasty stuff to him in the meantime when he runs with the speed of continental drift). 
This works even better on granite brutes. They fall so damn quickly...
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
Also does anyone out there have a successfull PvP tank or should I just forget the whole idea and choose another AT?
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hum... a */regen rava is a good tank imo, i found MA or spine/regen being harder to kill in pvp.
when in siren if my bounty is a regen i totally avoid it , a tank i go for the challenge.
that's only my opinion by the way
[u]PS:[u] i find unfair that villain don't got real tank instead of a damage dealer with quite plenty hp and that heroes got 2 At (3 with some troller combo) on their side
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Trust me, there is absolutely nothing wrong my scrappers or tanks slottings 
Plenty will atest to that
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erm.. yeah think i'd agree with that one mate
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"Invincibility (Inv) provides 5% defense to smashing, lethal, fire, cold, energy, and negative energy
plus another 1.5% for each foe in melee range (max 10). It also adds a 3% to-hit bonus for every foe
in melee range (max 10) and provides a melee taunt-effect"
From HERE
That's the base, unslotted figure. I don't know if it performs differently in PvP (I doubt it) so in most PvP circumstances where you're only facing one or two people you'll be getting only about 10% defense or so. I dropped Invincibility from my scrapper's Siren's Call build as I thought other powers gave more benefit (it would be handy for when I accidentally end up in a hotspot battle though). I did pick it back up at lvl 35 though for PvE reasons.
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This is the info I got as well. You get that 10-12%-ish defense bonus(when full slotted) for one person in melee with you, and small bit of extra for more people. A wholly different matter does it do you any good. The taunt part afaik doesnt work in PVP.
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My mistakes... Stone tanks can fight...
But Granite will basically reduce your mobility, recharge, and damage so much that you cant fight for tofee. You will certainly only get into melee range if your opponent wants to, and even then, its unlikely you will be able to kill anything more than a squishy squishy.
Having said that, you will be unlikely to die I suppose. The only way of effectively destroying a granite is end drain, which they have no defence against, which leads to a detoggle.
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i must disagree here, i take Brimstone (stone/ss) to warburg/rv every now and then and i dont have much of a problem at all, having almost perma rage with hasten running the -dam -recharge in Granite is gone and i've taken down both stalkers and brutes so that talk about not being able to kill "anything more than a squishy squishy" a is just bull imo, if you know what your doing you'll be fine.
and about Granites not havin defense against end-drain, YES WE HAVE!! Rooted give mezz protection, ptrotection to END DRAIN AND + regen
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
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so that talk about not being able to kill "anything more than a squishy squishy" a is just bull imo, if you know what your doing you'll be fine.
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Have you tried this with non-superstrength stone tanks?
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so that talk about not being able to kill "anything more than a squishy squishy" a is just bull imo, if you know what your doing you'll be fine.
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Have you tried this with non-superstrength stone tanks?
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yupp, on the trainingroom thingy i tried with a stone/stone and a stone/axe, both did fine there
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
nm, its 2.30 am and I doubt I am in the right frame of mind
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