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... and then they hit hibernate - and you have to start right back from square one and... get this... manage to take them down before Hibernate recharges again! (which isnt to shabby with 3xSO in it).
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hehe, recharge is about 30 secs when hasten is up.. maybe even less. If Hoarfrost is up that means you'll have to do about 3100+(depending a bit on which accolades the Tank has) damage within 30 secs after Hibernate drop to kill an Ice Tank. I highly doubt any one character can achieve that, so a decent team is required. And that's assuming the Ice tank will just stand there to take that punishment, which he/she most likely wont.
Hibernate is awesome indeed 
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ps. I do also like it a lot in PVE as well though, not sure why people don't like it for PVE.
as for which powersets are good in PVP.... I'd take anything but Stone primary... don't know enough about all the secondaries to comment.
Dont like it in PvE because it makes the tank safe, and the rest of the team, suddenly used to the awesome aggro grabbing power of the ice tank, suddenly have to shift into "oh my gosh! enemies are attacking me!" mode... which can often lead to complete tactical disintegration 
This is not a pve discussion so people can now stop talking tanks in PvE since this is not the subject of discussion.
If you want a good PvP tank and you know what a tank in PvP should do (which is not damage or kill stuff but basically lockdown attention of opponents) a "superman build" with full defense spec or my preferance a Stone tank with a buffer support if possible to not lose mobility.
Granite is overrated.
They can still be taken down by a good team, unless the tank itself has a good team backing it up. Mind you, if the Tank's team is good, go Invul or Ice, hell, or Fire (maybe )! None of the Debuffs associated from Granite.
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They can still be taken down by a good team
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And this makes granites overrated? Any AT or player no matter how skilled they are can be taken down. There is no such thing as unbeateble or "i win button"
If you have a good team backing you up go granite get buffed and enjoy the ride or invul. Ice is pretty crappy compared to the gains you got from granite or Invul in open battles.
I also think granite is overrated, not because they can be taken down but because of their usefulness to the team compared with other primaries. At best situations, they need buffing, and if they dont get it granites handicaps start taking their toll. I remember fighting in the 3vP tournament, where the enemy team had a stone tank. most of the match he stayed in granite but we just kept killing his mates, and in the end he dropped granite to be able to taunt and move better.. They still lost though.
Might be a different matter in narrow corridors of a SG base, but there are several ways to PVP
Hibernate is.. annoying. Arguably best tier 9 power for pvp tanks. I dont like playing against ice tanks for that reason My last duel with an SG mates ice tank ended in a 1-1 draw though..
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I also think granite is overrated
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So granites are overrated because in 3vp this guy not had a buffer?
We are talking proper teams and people with basic PvP grasp. If you plan a PvP team and bring a granite without a kinetics you are worth of the amount of pain that is coming your way.
The Granite set in PvP indeed has some standards that u need to meet as a team but the reward u get from it > all tank sets. This is one of the reasons it has more requirements in support than the rest tank sets
If you now want to solo in PvP as a tank there is one advice:
Reroll blaster/scrapper/controller hell even defender has better chances
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Might be a different matter in narrow corridors of a SG base
[/ QUOTE ] Ice set is king for confined spaces imho
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The Granite set in PvP indeed has some standards that u need to meet as a team but the reward u get from it > all tank sets. This is one of the reasons it has more requirements in support than the rest tank sets
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What rewards exactly? What can stoneys achieve that another primary with a defender backup cant? Since the teams are tad unlikely to go after the tank first in any case.. Why not get a tank that doesnt have movement penalties and recharge penalties? The other primaries arent THAT easy to kill.
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Since the teams are tad unlikely to go after the tank first in any case
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Put 2 granite tanks in a team and back them up with a kinetics. Then assemble a secondary damage team to guard the kinetics close to the 2 tanks and instruct the 2 granites to aoe taunt and taunt everything in sight or coming near.
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Why not get a tank that doesnt have movement penalties and recharge penalties?
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Becausse the granite > then the rest regarding healing demand in PvP situations and more capabilities of damage absorption. Less healing demand means better mana efficiency for the rest of the team.
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The other primaries arent THAT easy to kill.
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Ofc not but granite is hard as a rock hardest than them all
I don't seem to remember Smooth Operator being any challenge to take down, TG. He was even backed up by two kinetics, if I remember correctly.
To kill an ice tank, you have to be able to do 3000+ damage in under 30 seconds. This just won't happen 1vs1, and in a team he's going to have an empath healing him as well.
Your PvP-fu is weak, old man.
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We are talking proper teams and people with basic PvP grasp.
The Granite set in PvP indeed has some standards that u need to meet as a team but the reward u get from it > all tank sets.
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Invul + kin OR fire + kin > stone + kin.
Kin is pretty much essential at high level team arena/pentad. I would never take stone ahead of these 2, with or without it.
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If you now want to solo in PvP as a tank there is one advice:
Reroll blaster/scrapper/controller hell even defender has better chances
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You must've not seen a decent Fire/Em in action vs any squishy?
Or an Inv/SS tank in sirens? There is nothing easier to play solo in there.
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
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I don't seem to remember Smooth Operator being any challenge to take down, TG. He was even backed up by two kinetics, if I remember correctly.
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I wasnt there i cannot know and what Smooth operator has to do with all this?
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To kill an ice tank, you have to be able to do 3000+ damage in under 30 seconds. This just won't happen 1vs1, and in a team he's going to have an empath healing him as well.
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If you roll a tank to PvP 1vs1 let me grab teh pop corn and laugh
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Your PvP-fu is weak, old man.
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A lot to learn you got padawan
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Kin is pretty much essential at high level team arena/pentad
[/ QUOTE ] Arena is not the only PvP out there but ofc kin is indeed essential in pretty much all PvP teams
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You must've not seen a decent Fire/Em in action vs any squishy?
Or an Inv/SS tank in sirens? There is nothing easier to play solo in there.
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I have seen loads. Any self respected PvPer playing a squishie knows to keep distance from such situations.
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If you now want to solo in PvP as a tank there is one advice:
Reroll blaster/scrapper/controller hell even defender has better chances
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You must've not seen a decent Fire/Em in action vs any squishy?
Or an Inv/SS tank in sirens? There is nothing easier to play solo in there.
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As he says, excluding criticals, my INV/SS outdamages my scrappers.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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As he says, excluding criticals, my INV/SS outdamages my scrappers.
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So i guess people now instead of getting scrappers in pvp teams they just get tanks to kill cause they are better damage.And everyone that rolled a scrapper for the damage now simply has the tank in team kill everything before they actually have chance to do any decent damage.Damn thats harsh on scrappers!
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As he says, excluding criticals, my INV/SS outdamages my scrappers.
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But why would you exclude criticals if you're trying to make an objective statement? You might not be able to rely on them, but they certainly play a significant part of Scrapper damage output.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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As he says, excluding criticals, my INV/SS outdamages my scrappers.
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But why would you exclude criticals if you're trying to make an objective statement? You might not be able to rely on them, but they certainly play a significant part of Scrapper damage output.
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why would I exclude them? well for starters they are not dependable and as you are not fighting mobs higher than yourself the chance to crit isnt exactly high. I never bank on what might be, if I get a crit great but I sure as hell dont depend on it, if my scrappers could only win by crits I would never play them. Its easily possible to go a whole duel with 0 crits.
My point is simply as I made it, without crits my INV/SS outdamages my spines/regen and even my BS/SR
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
My point is simply as I made it, without crits my INV/SS outdamages my spines/regen and even my BS/SR
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Boty an SS being better dps/damage than a scrapper is highly unlikely to happen unless
a)Wrong slotting
b)wrong power selection
c)Combination of a and b
If a and b are done properly and INV/SS outdamages scrappers (Especially BS) then i blame the devs for allowing this and for actually making the scrappers useless
Most PvP kills come from burst damage, if we're talking exclusively about tanks and scrappers anyway. Scrappers have nothing that compares to Fiery Embrace -> Build Up -> Energy Transfer -> Total Focus, except Build Up -> critical tier 9 followed by critcical tier 8. What's the chance of a critical hit again?
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
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As he says, excluding criticals, my INV/SS outdamages my scrappers.
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So i guess people now instead of getting scrappers in pvp teams they just get tanks to kill cause they are better damage.And everyone that rolled a scrapper for the damage now simply has the tank in team kill everything before they actually have chance to do any decent damage.Damn thats harsh on scrappers!
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree but seems that a right specced pvp tank outperforms scrappers, my next project is a Fire/SS, Fire/EM is THE crazy damage dealer but I took SS for prolonged sustainability. So I get a tanks HPs, 72% res to smash/lethal (with tough) and KO blow dealing a BI of 37.2 with rage and firey embrace.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My point is simply as I made it, without crits my INV/SS outdamages my spines/regen and even my BS/SR
[/ QUOTE ]
Boty an SS being better dps/damage than a scrapper is highly unlikely to happen unless
a)Wrong slotting
b)wrong power selection
c)Combination of a and b
If a and b are done properly and INV/SS outdamages scrappers (Especially BS) then i blame the devs for allowing this and for actually making the scrappers useless
[/ QUOTE ]
Trust me, there is absolutely nothing wrong my scrappers or tanks slottings 
Plenty will atest to that
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I believe the common expression for stalkobots slotting is "ZOMG H4X" 
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Its easily possible to go a whole duel with 0 crits.
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And it's possible to chain 3 Crits in a row, such is the nature of the beast. My point is that you cannot ignore (or cannot fairly ignore) criticals when comparing Tanker vs Scrapper damage.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Most PvP kills come from burst damage, if we're talking exclusively about tanks and scrappers anyway.
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Well, I can honestly say that none of my Scrapper's kills have come from burst damage, if only because Claws doesn't have any.
Saying "Most PvP kills come from X" is an unquantifiable statement. Successful burst damage results in kills because there's less chance to recover from it, is a fair enough statement; certain Tank builds have better burst damage than Scrappers in high level PvP is also fair comment. To completely ignore the benefits of chain damage over burst damage, however, is a little myopic in my opinion.
I don't really want to derail the topic, though, so I'm happy to leave my thoughts at that.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Having said that, you will be unlikely to die I suppose. The only way of effectively destroying a granite is end drain, which they have no defence against, which leads to a detoggle.
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Unless they are also running Rooted.
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DOes rooted protect vs end drain?
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Yeah but still possible to end drain them even with rooted especially a kin/ele for example.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor