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bit f a follo up from my last post, but hy do stalkers need stealth in PvP, dont we come with in build stealth?
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yes but other ATs ahve built in +perception and can see us, they can get a pool power and see us too. The stealth/perception issue is merely an arms race at the moment
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
If you use hide, you're invisible. Hurrah!
If someone out there has focused senses or tactics from the leadership pool or pops some yellow inspirations or has clear mind applied to them by an empath, then they can see through hide. Boo!
If you have hide AND stealth, two things making you all shimmery and cool, then consequently, they're going to need two things raising their perception to see you.
There are all sorts of very complicated numbers for perception and stealth dependent on archetype, range and what kind of cheese you like, but the quick and dirty version is, if you have one glob of stealth, your target only needs one glob of perception to see you.
If you have two, they need two.
If you have three, you're cheating.
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If you have three, you're cheating.
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Funny thing is, 2 Stalkers in a duo, both with Grant Invisability, is cheating.
At least by some people's standards it is. 
And you don't need stealth. It is nice to have, but by no means essential - they may be able to see you, but that isn't the same as being able to stop you
Blindfaith doesn't use stealth, as she doesn't a) need it for PVE, b) like the movement penalty, c) the increased endurance consumption. She still does well in the zones when she is in there.
the movement penalty is only 7% and imo stalkers should always have ss anyway, I also 2 slot my SS for speed too.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Slightly related: invisibility doesnt have movement penalty but it does have very bad endurance drain. Almost on par with fly. And of course you have to switch it off to attack.
Not disagreeing that stealth is a useful power for PvP, just not convinced that it is necessary to achieve a certain amount of success.
PvP for both Blind and I is about the fun, not necessarily about min/maxxing a build and being "top dog" - if I win more fights than I lose, then I'm happy. I don't need stealth to do this (and won't be taking it on my stalker, now I've finally found a build I enjoy playing - claws/dark). Grant Invis is another story
I also think playing for a while without stealth is good for learning how to take a stalker to a higher level, especially with high levels of +per in the zone - you have to learn the scenery, and patience to select the right targets - and I'm of the opinion that you learn those lessons if you don't have stealth/invis/grant invis on your toon.
But as I like to say, different monkeys, different nuts
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If you have three, you're cheating.
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Funny thing is, 2 Stalkers in a duo, both with Grant Invisability, is cheating.
At least by some people's standards it is.
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I imagine these would be the same people who challenge me over broadcast.
"Come on then! One on one! But you can't use hide. Or AS."
I presume the next sentence is "and fetch my slippers!"
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And you don't need stealth. It is nice to have, but by no means essential - they may be able to see you, but that isn't the same as being able to stop you
Blindfaith doesn't use stealth, as she doesn't a) need it for PVE, b) like the movement penalty, c) the increased endurance consumption. She still does well in the zones when she is in there.
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Nope, you don't need stealth and I'm with you on positional sense and placement being very important too, but I'm very keen on stealth. Even though my defence is high enough that, in Bloody Bay, I can usually get an AS off even if I'm seen, as I pick off individuals and often they can't hit me before it fires.
But then, these days, my build is virtually exclusively PvP, whereas yours is for more varied gameplay.
As you say; Monkeys. Nuts.
Also, to be honest, the most efficient support weapon in my hero-killing toolbox is not stealth, it's the little white bubble most heroes seem determined to have above their heads while they talk.
Oh, you're typing are you? Build Up... AS...
I have found recently that wyvern Lts have been quite happily ignoring my hide, without activating tactics or anyother visible animated power.
A few other pve things have done it too, so theres one motivation for taking stealth if you dont pvp.
Were they ambushes, possibly responding to you clicking on a glowie or picking up a hostage, David?
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Also, to be honest, the most efficient support weapon in my hero-killing toolbox is not stealth, it's the little white bubble most heroes seem determined to have above their heads while they talk.
Oh, you're typing are you? Build Up... AS...
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I noticed more players seem to use this 'trick', so i like to lure them once in a while. A /afk I'm Typing command and just wait till some moro... errrm villain takes the bate 
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They werent ambushes, they were "virgin" mobs that I had been watching while drinking a cup of tea. I was about to attack when the wyvern lt turned around and attacked me.
I was running Hide and none of my toggles and had not even activated an attack yet.
At first I though that maybe it was due to a bad connection (I have been rubberbanding a bit recently on Onion, and had a fwe disconnects), but there was no visual ques that I had lagged or disconed .
He was +1 lvl so I guess he could of just got lucky 
DG>
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Also, to be honest, the most efficient support weapon in my hero-killing toolbox is not stealth, it's the little white bubble most heroes seem determined to have above their heads while they talk.
Oh, you're typing are you? Build Up... AS...
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I noticed more players seem to use this 'trick', so i like to lure them once in a while. A /afk I'm Typing command and just wait till some moro... errrm villain takes the bate
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If you watch people, rather than leap in at the first appearance of the white bubble of suicide, you can usually spot the difference between chat and a lure.
Fortunately I'm a patient soul and have run into plenty of "moro" heroes.
A pair of heroes standing together with their AFK bubbles blinking on and off in turn... Looks like lunch to me.
"I was typing!"
"I know."
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They werent ambushes, they were "virgin" mobs that I had been watching while drinking a cup of tea. I was about to attack when the wyvern lt turned around and attacked me.
I was running Hide and none of my toggles and had not even activated an attack yet.
At first I though that maybe it was due to a bad connection (I have been rubberbanding a bit recently on Onion, and had a fwe disconnects), but there was no visual ques that I had lagged or disconed .
He was +1 lvl so I guess he could of just got lucky
DG>
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Is this the point where we shout "ZOMG! Stealth NERF!"? I've never been good at timing that sort of thing.
I haven't encountered this, but I'm a bad person to ask, as my Stalker only exists in BB and Sirens and, briefly, the shortest route between those two.
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If you have three, you're cheating.
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1. Hide
2. Stealth
3. Hyper Stealth
And even with Hide+Stealth empath can still be a problem for you little stalkers, since thay can stack CM on a single target... if i ativate my hasten i can stack 22 CMs on a single target when the first starts to run out
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If you have three, you're cheating.
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1. Hide
2. Stealth
3. Hyper Stealth
And even with Hide+Stealth empath can still be a problem for you little stalkers, since thay can stack CM on a single target... if i ativate my hasten i can stack 22 CMs on a single target when the first starts to run out
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As far as I know, Hyper Stealth, (if you mean the temp powers) doesn't stack on stealth - I believe stealth switches off, if you put Hyper On. I have four stealth buttons, thanks to temp powers, but I can't use four at once. I just like to keep them around for when stealth gets detoggled.
Also, the reason I started playing a stalker was because I'm an empathy defender and wanted to understand them more, so I could change my defender tactics, but as has been said elsewhere, being seen and being stopped are two different things.
So long as it still says "Hidden" in the corner of my screen, you can see me all you like.
JUst as a small added note..... when it comes to our more ninja orientated stalker friends they have two powers that can debuff perception anyway (smoke flash and blind powder) even if u jjust take one of them your pritty much on a par with hide+stealth, AND smoke flash comes with a AoE placate :-\ so if u slot it for acc and recharge u can avoid mass gankage. I put this in because if im going to take stealth smaoke flash is really the only power i could drop to take it unless i droped stamina (yeah right THAYTS gonna happen lol). Im also thinking for droppin moonbeam at 41 and grabbin blind powder. Any thoughts?
Does smoke flash still have a four second activation time? If so, I'm not sure I'd want to rely on it in all but the most dire situations.
My new stalker will be going without stealth until such times as I think "uh oh! maybe i was wrong"
Playing stalker and stalker-hunter makes you better at both.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
smoke flash has activation of 1.8 seconds and a 20ft PBAoE
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smoke flash has activation of 1.8 seconds and a 20ft PBAoE
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Cool - I remember when it came out, people were complaining that it wasn't much of an "ooh bugger" power, because it took so long to cast. I didn't know if the activation had been shortened or if the "four seconds" was simply exaggeration - My Stalker is SR, see.
I hope you and Mr Frosty will let us (me) know how you get on, sans stealth. I'm always interested in alternate builds.
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My new stalker will be going without stealth until such times as I think "uh oh! maybe i was wrong"
Playing stalker and stalker-hunter makes you better at both.
[/ QUOTE ]nice thinking
bit f a follo up from my last post, but hy do stalkers need stealth in PvP, dont we come with in build stealth?